Feldman Feature On The Athletic

[HRE Otto IV]

Respectfully disagree with that. That 2005 team had an excellent defense and a below average but serviceable offense with many returning parts from the 2004 team that went to a bowl.

GRob's (RIP) decision to try and run a pro-style West Coast offense with slow/lumbering Perry Patterson and not quick receivers was just painfully stupid. I think we could have cranked out 4-5 wins instead of 1 with another coach.

Agree 4-5 Ws but that is a losing record.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Your old classmate?

She was a few years behind me.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I agree with this. With continuity its probability similar to 2003 or 2004. Although Steve Gregory either made the offense or defense a little better but not both, would have had to pick a side. Don’t think he was going to do Diamond Ferri duty, that was a one time specialty.

2005 was also an 11 game season and not an easy schedule (UVA, @FSU, @ND OOC) The Big East was also better than people thought it would be that year.

That said, I don’t agree with Rippon’s hindsight that the team was “loaded”, but it certainly wasn’t 1 win talent. Might have had Ray Rice too, to replace Reyes and keep 2 back continuity.

Our O talent was horrendous, especially at WR.

Rhodes was used well that year but there was nothing else and the system stunk. I expect us to use Allen similarly.

Would have been interesting to see if Brinkley or Rice won RB2. Rice likely by the end of the year but he may also have redshirted.

The D was coached better and also had Gregory. IMO he stays at WR if P stays. So the O still stinks and the D is worse.

Tarullo and Terry were good players and big losses.

2004 we had so me great individual performances that helped us win close games. Where we getting those without Reyes and Ferri?

So much had to go right to get to 6 Ws in 2004. Can’t expect more of the same when you lose 5 impact players.

 

[Millhouse]

it validates what many on here have said. P and D were well respected inside and outside the building. the way they did them dirty was outrageous.

Interesting that Rippon thought 05 had 97 potential. what a lost opportunity bringing in a new system. Cantor and Gross destroyed the football program completely.

Rippon is nuts. I don't blame him for thinking that way but no

 

[Chip]

Rippon is nuts. I don't blame him for thinking that way but no

McNabb, Konrad, Kyle McIntosh, Kevin Johnson, Spotwood vs. Perry, Rhodes, Chiarra, Rice Moss and Tim Lane. Who ya got.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

I think they wanted P to fire Deleone and he wouldn’t do it.

 

[djorange1989]

What does 2001 have to do with the 2005 environment? Also did we have a Freeney waiting in the wings? All coaches run their course. It happens to everyone. Saying Coach P is human, isn't an insult to him or his legacy. Pretending it didn't happen is delusional.

In 2004 we had bookend blowouts. We also lost to a very bad Temple team who ran the same play over and over and we had no solution. We should have gone to the BCS Bowl that year. Going 6-6 isn't some achievement. It was a sign of a downward trend.

That 2004 team barely won 6 games. We lost players to graduation. 2005 was going to be worse. Saban couldn't win with our QB and WR combo in 2005.

So what exactly was inaccurate? Post McNabb in the old Big East we were 17-18 in conference. That is a five year period and a LOSING Big East record. Then with a watered down Big East we go 4-2. So he was 21-20 in his last 6 years in the Big East. Take your head out of the sand. That isn't good enough. It is JBesque.

Like I said every HC eventually runs their course. Admitting Coach P was at his end does not mean he wasn't a very good HC during his heyday. Pretending he is not human, is a little weird.



Edit

Those huge losses that we had no replacements for Reyes (look at the big games he had in our Ws that year), Ferri (BC alone, but also on D), Terry (NFL 2nd round pick), Tarullo (all conference and started last 37 games), Jones (the only real WR on the roster in 2004). So without those huge losses we are having a better season in 2005?

Great post. P was an excellent coach but it was time. I have posted this before but it is worth posting again. From 2002-2004, his last 3 years, Rutgers and Temple won a combined 3 Big East games, not including the games they played against each other. All 3 of those wins were against Syracuse

 

[IthacaMatt]

no one disputes the record at the end. i think revisionist history suggests staleness. I lean on the fact we couldn't find the right qb to run the offense.

a Vick following McNabb would have freshened the produce so to speak into the early 2000s and who knows what follows then.

Rather than focusing on the word "stale", I think the writer's better observation was that George kept loading up more details, more reads, more "multiplicity" in his offense, until it got to be too much. The kids began tuning them out, and it took them longer to get plays in, since the calls tended to be complicated. It's like we had 14 different formations to run about 5 plays.

 

[SU91]

Rather than focusing on the word "stale", I think the writer's better observation was that George kept loading up more details, more reads, more "multiplicity" in his offense, until it got to be too much. The kids began tuning them out, and it took them longer to get plays in, since the calls tended to be complicated. It's like we had 14 different formations to run about 5 plays.

This was to mask talent deficiencies. That only works to a point. In the end, the multiple formations looked like a clown show.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I think they wanted P to fire Deleone and he wouldn’t do it.

I do think part of the recruiting problem was the DeLeone O. Which is why TGD pushed for a pass happy O.

The game was starting to change. Other teams were looking to complete 10 passes a Q, while ideally DeLeone wanted to complete 10 passes a game. What QB or WR would chose the latter?

Also dual threats became a lot more common, reducing the pool for us.

Then we have our crap investment into the program and old, outdated facilities.

Recruiting became more national as well. That plus the fact that WV, Pitt, Rutgers, Maryland, UConn all started to care about football.

There was nothing wrong with the DeLeone O when it had talent. But that talent was no longer coming because of all the factors above. One of which was his system.


Edit

Forgot to add that P&D were old school recruiters and didn't fit the bells and whistles or sliminess that had become common. Being honorable finishes last.

 

[All4SU]

I do think part of the recruiting problem was the DeLeone O. Which is why TGD pushed for a pass happy O.

The game was starting to change. Other teams were looking to complete 10 passes a Q, while ideally DeLeone wanted to complete 10 passes a game. What QB or WR would chose the latter?

Also dual threats became a lot more common, reducing the pool for us.

Then we have our crap investment into the program and old, outdated facilities.

Recruiting became more national as well. That plus the fact that WV, Pitt, Rutgers, Maryland, UConn all started to care about football.

There was nothing wrong with the DeLeone O when it had talent. But that talent was no longer coming because of all the factors above. One of which was his system.


Edit

Forgot to add that P&D were old school recruiters and didn't fit the bells and whistles or sliminess that had become common. Being honorable finishes last.

Ironically, we turned out a greater number of dynamic receivers and QBs when we were throwing the ball less.

 

[OrangePA]

I don’t know about that. Bookend blowout losses to Purdue (51-0?) and Georgia Tech in Champs Sports Bowl (51-14?) and inexplicable regular season loss to Temple. Something had to be done but Robinson was a an A1 disaster by a new AD who was clueless

Yes.

Something had to be done.

A financial transfusion to the program i.e. a weight room - removal of Astro Turf from Dome - an indoor practice facility etc.

What was actually done was a colossal mistake.

More on Purdue, Ga Tech and Temple later

 

[OrangePA]

I do think part of the recruiting problem was the DeLeone O. Which is why TGD pushed for a pass happy O.

The game was starting to change. Other teams were looking to complete 10 passes a Q, while ideally DeLeone wanted to complete 10 passes a game. What QB or WR would chose the latter?

Also dual threats became a lot more common, reducing the pool for us.

Then we have our crap investment into the program and old, outdated facilities.

Recruiting became more national as well. That plus the fact that WV, Pitt, Rutgers, Maryland, UConn all started to care about football.

There was nothing wrong with the DeLeone O when it had talent. But that talent was no longer coming because of all the factors above. One of which was his system.


Edit

Forgot to add that P&D were old school recruiters and didn't fit the bells and whistles or sliminess that had become common. Being honorable finishes last.

Inaccurate.

Re-read the article

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Ironically, we turned out a greater number of dynamic receivers and QBs when we were throwing the ball less.

The environment was different in the 80s and 90s. Look at our post McNabb QBs and WRs:

QB
Madei
Nunes
RJ
Perry
Fields

WR
Spotwood (post injury)
Campbell
Woodcock
Mo
Tyree
Morant (who finally came around SR year)
Riddle
Jones
Rashard Williams
Fontenette
Bembo
Lane
Moss

That is 6 years (99-05). If you created a 2 deep from that it would still be mediocre.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Inaccurate.

Re-read the article

What is not accurate?

 

[Chip]

With the powers of age, wisdom (not really) and hindsight, here's what I wish happened. Pasqualoni is brought back in 2005 with his chosen staff, don't force anything on him. Essentially firing the guy at halftime of a bowl game is pretty insane, although it was fascinating to be there in the lion's den as it was happening.

If he goes 6-5 or better in 2005 with that schedule, which I assume is a bowl lock, you ask him what else he needs. (Field turf was already done).

If he wins 5 or less, you let him go and do a better search. But in reality, again with hindsight, I wish we went right to Marrone. He was younger and had a better idea of what we needed to compete in a changing landscape. He would have been able to do it with a brand that wasn't damaged, and also wouldn't have been on NFL HC radars, so he sticks around longer.

Oh well.

 

[GoSU96]

With the powers of age, wisdom (not really) and hindsight, here's what I wish happened. Pasqualoni is brought back in 2005 with his chosen staff, don't force anything on him. Essentially firing the guy at halftime of a bowl game is pretty insane, although it was fascinating to be there in the lion's den as it was happening.

If he goes 6-5 or better in 2005 with that schedule, which I assume is a bowl lock, you ask him what else he needs. (Field turf was already done).

If he wins 5 or less, you let him go and do a better search. But in reality, again with hindsight, I wish we went right to Marrone. He was younger and had a better idea of what we needed to compete in a changing landscape. He would have been able to do it with a brand that wasn't damaged, and also wouldn't have been on NFL HC radars, so he sticks around longer.

Oh well.

That is very familiar , it’s pretty much what I was writing at the time.

 

[oldpinepoint]

What is not accurate?

I thought your post was spot on

 

[Chip]

That is very familiar , it’s pretty much what I was writing at the time.

I know. I plagiarized it. You were in on Marrone before anyone else.

(actually ChatGPT wrote it).

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I thought your post was spot on

Well most of it was fact. The only real opinion was that P&D were honorable recruiters. I got the impression that they did not get down and dirty like Schiano. I also got the impression that they didn't act like clowns (see Harbaugh or Kelly). So I guess OPA had an issue with that statement.

 

[OrangePA]

With the powers of age, wisdom (not really) and hindsight, here's what I wish happened. Pasqualoni is brought back in 2005 with his chosen staff, don't force anything on him. Essentially firing the guy at halftime of a bowl game is pretty insane, although it was fascinating to be there in the lion's den as it was happening.

If he goes 6-5 or better in 2005 with that schedule, which I assume is a bowl lock, you ask him what else he needs. (Field turf was already done).

If he wins 5 or less, you let him go and do a better search. But in reality, again with hindsight, I wish we went right to Marrone. He was younger and had a better idea of what we needed to compete in a changing landscape. He would have been able to do it with a brand that wasn't damaged, and also wouldn't have been on NFL HC radars, so he sticks around longer.

Oh well.

Field Turf was installed by Gross after Pasqualoni was fired - and after Crouthammel left.

 

[Chip]

Field Turf was installed by Gross after Pasqualoni was fired - and after Crouthammel left.

I know, I may not have been clear in what I was saying. If Gross retained Pasqualoni for at least one year, it would have been one with field turf, and then you ask him what else he needed.

This is just speculation, but P struck me as a company man (I think you've said that yourself), that may not have spoken up about where we were falling behind. Marrone would have, and eventually did.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

With the powers of age, wisdom (not really) and hindsight, here's what I wish happened. Pasqualoni is brought back in 2005 with his chosen staff, don't force anything on him. Essentially firing the guy at halftime of a bowl game is pretty insane, although it was fascinating to be there in the lion's den as it was happening.

If he goes 6-5 or better in 2005 with that schedule, which I assume is a bowl lock, you ask him what else he needs. (Field turf was already done).

If he wins 5 or less, you let him go and do a better search. But in reality, again with hindsight, I wish we went right to Marrone. He was younger and had a better idea of what we needed to compete in a changing landscape. He would have been able to do it with a brand that wasn't damaged, and also wouldn't have been on NFL HC radars, so he sticks around longer.

Oh well.

That would have been nice but I doubt it happens. Marrone was just an OL coach at that time. You really think TGD hires him?

There is a good chance TGD still hires GRob. Or he looks for a splash hire or big name (Butch Davis? Bo Pelini?).

If you look at the hires from 2006 and 2007 there was slim pickings. I think Marrone would have worked out, but his resume was a tad light to be HC in 2006. Heck it was a tad light in 2010.


Edit

Forgot that Texas won the title in 2005. If GRob was still there he 110% is still the hire.

 

[Chip]

That would have been nice but I doubt it happens. Marrone was just an OL coach at that time. You really think TGD hires him?

There is a good chance TGD still hires GRob. Or he looks for a splash hire or big name (Butch Davis? Bo Pelini?).

If you look at the hires from 2006 and 2007 there was slim pickings. I think Marrone would have worked out, but his resume was a tad light to be HC in 2006. Heck it was a tad light in 2010.


Edit

Forgot that Texas won the title in 2005. If GRob was still there he 110% is still the hire.

I think the GRob hire was probably inevitable.

The only way Gross looks at Marrone is if pushed by former players. But that probably only worked because his chosen coach failed so miserably.

As I said, just a hindsight wish.

 

[GoSU96]

I think the GRob hire was probably inevitable.

The only way Gross looks at Marrone is if pushed by former players. But that probably only worked because his chosen coach failed so miserably.

As I said, just a hindsight wish.

Greg Robinson was fired his two jobs before Texas. And he was only co-DC as a bailout from a friend. It was far from obvious and wasn’t a name hire.

he sucked before he was hired and he was completely out of his depth as HC

it never should have happened

disorganized dope

drove a program that needed a tune up, not an overhaul, off a cliff

should have sued dr gross for malpractice