Fire Autry

[23Zone]

I don't believe for a minute that JB did anything intentionally to harm the program. For the last few years he wanted to stay so he could coach his son. And I don't believe AA was his choice. But he set it up for ADJW to choose him, whether intentionally or not.

JB definitely wanted GMAC to be next coach. Why the SUAD pushed Autry into the position and ignored JB's recommendation is beyond me. Optics at several levels probably played a significant role. Not saying that GMAC would have been my first choice to replace JB, but I really do honestly feel he would have been much better prepared to be a first time head coach then Autry. Much more of an X and O kind of guy. And ferocious competitor. Time will tell. We'll see where things settle in the next couple of years. Watching Siena closely from a distance lol

 

[Cusefan0307]

JB definitely wanted GMAC to be next coach. Why the SUAD pushed Autry into the position and ignored JB's recommendation is beyond me. Optics at several levels probably played a significant role. Not saying that GMAC would have been my first choice to replace JB, but I really do honestly feel he would have been much better prepared to be a first time head coach then Autry. Much more of an X and O kind of guy. And ferocious competitor. Time will tell. We'll see where things settle in the next couple of years. Watching Siena closely from a distance lol

JB wasn’t in position to decide anything at that point after the previous two years of garbage before he was forced out.

 

[Trueblue25]

Red’s not a continuity hire, he’s ADJW’s chosen guy. This isn’t CBA basketball, its a p4 top 10 program. You don’t settle for people. You’re paid to make decisions you’re held accountable for, or at least thats how the real world works.

I know plenty of people here are ADJW fans but I’ve hardly seen any CEO’s or other AD’s get so many excuses. We’ve got to perform now. Complacency and apathy don’t make failure go away.

 

[23Zone]

JB wasn’t in position to decide anything at that point after the previous two years of garbage before he was forced out.

True but I think he knew who was best positioned of his assistant coaches to take over the reins of the program.

 

[Cusefan95]

Red’s not a continuity hire, he’s ADJW’s chosen guy. This isn’t CBA basketball, its a p4 top 10 program. You don’t settle for people. You’re paid to make decisions you’re held accountable for, or at least thats how the real world works.

I know plenty of people here are ADJW fans but I’ve hardly seen any CEO’s or other AD’s get so many excuses. We’ve got to perform now. Complacency and apathy don’t make failure go away.

If you think CEOs and ADs have no constraints on their decision making, you have a very flawed view of how the world actually works. As one college example, it’s almost a meme that Auburn boosters have such an outsized impact that the AD takes their “suggestions” into account more than they ideally would. You might say that’s because the AD is spineless, but here’s his options:

1) Go along with booster suggestions more than he would want to in order to maintain peace and unified organization. This is inevitably going to lead to some bad hires or decisions in general that could have been avoided. But success overall is still a possibility, however slim.
2). Tell the boosters to **** off, hire who you want - and watch as the knives come out, multiple mutinies form, and the organization begins to implode. You can try to hold it together, but success in this case is unlikely.

Which do you think is the better option? Because the “AD just does what he wants and boosters always go along with it, and everyone lives in peace and harmony” option you seem to think is reality is not on the table. Ever. The only kinda sane argument against JW hiring Red is he should have picked his battle here and fought for his ideal option - but that’s getting more nuanced than I see from the anti- JW clownshow crowd and is frankly a hard case to make since we know how much internal pressure within the university existed. Plus he’s burned through all his political capital gently nudging JB to the door, so winning any battle on this front was an impossibility.

It’s wild that you feel qualified to tell us how the real world works, when it’s patently obvious you have no idea how the real world actually works.

 

[Bayside44]

If you think CEOs and ADs have no constraints on their decision making, you have a very flawed view of how the world actually works. As one college example, it’s almost a meme that Auburn boosters have such an outsized impact that the AD takes their “suggestions” into account more than they ideally would. You might say that’s because the AD is spineless, but here’s his options:

1) Go along with booster suggestions more than he would want to in order to maintain peace and unified organization. This is inevitably going to lead to some bad hires or decisions in general that could have been avoided. But success overall is still a possibility, however slim.
2). Tell the boosters to **** off, hire who you want - and watch as the knives come out, multiple mutinies form, and the organization begins to implode. You can try to hold it together, but success in this case is unlikely.

Which do you think is the better option? Because the “AD just does what he wants and boosters always go along with it, and everyone lives in peace and harmony” option you seem to think is reality is not on the table. Ever. The only kinda sane argument against JW hiring Red is he should have picked his battle here and fought for his ideal option - but that’s getting more nuanced than I see from the anti- JW clownshow crowd and is frankly a hard case to make since we know how much internal pressure within the university existed. Plus he’s burned through all his political capital gently nudging JB to the door, so winning any battle on this front was an impossibility.

It’s wild that you feel qualified to tell us how the real world works, when it’s patently obvious you have no idea how the real world actually works.

In order to get the desired result of JB not lighting the world on fire, hiring internally was how it went.

And this job with a pissed off JB in the building isn't a great job.

If Red doesn't work out there's fresh runway to fix this without any impediments.

Years of this and it still hasn't sunk in.

 

[rhcuse]

So just what is the great “tell all, burn it all down” book of horror secrets JAB was going to unleash on the media and tarnish The Hill and his own legacy that y’all keep eluding too?

And why would it be a bad thing? I understand self- preservation, but that’s kind of the problem here, is it not?

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

In order to get the desired result of JB not lighting the world on fire, hiring internally was how it went.

And this job with a pissed off JB in the building isn't a great job.

If Red doesn't work out there's fresh runway to fix this without any impediments.

Years of this and it still hasn't sunk in.

I don't know how many times this needs to be explained on this board, often to the same posters.

People want information. Then they get information.

Only to just reject it.

Bizarre.

 

[Trueblue25]

If you think CEOs and ADs have no constraints on their decision making, you have a very flawed view of how the world actually works. As one college example, it’s almost a meme that Auburn boosters have such an outsized impact that the AD takes their “suggestions” into account more than they ideally would. You might say that’s because the AD is spineless, but here’s his options:

1) Go along with booster suggestions more than he would want to in order to maintain peace and unified organization. This is inevitably going to lead to some bad hires or decisions in general that could have been avoided. But success overall is still a possibility, however slim.
2). Tell the boosters to **** off, hire who you want - and watch as the knives come out, multiple mutinies form, and the organization begins to implode. You can try to hold it together, but success in this case is unlikely.

Which do you think is the better option? Because the “AD just does what he wants and boosters always go along with it, and everyone lives in peace and harmony” option you seem to think is reality is not on the table. Ever. The only kinda sane argument against JW hiring Red is he should have picked his battle here and fought for his ideal option - but that’s getting more nuanced than I see from the anti- JW clownshow crowd and is frankly a hard case to make since we know how much internal pressure within the university existed. Plus he’s burned through all his political capital gently nudging JB to the door, so winning any battle on this front was an impossibility.

It’s wild that you feel qualified to tell us how the real world works, when it’s patently obvious you have no idea how the real world actually works.

Im sure he’s a good man, so I would never stoop to saying any of the nonsense you insinuate I would. Im not here for petty insults.

The reality here is SU athletics haven’t improved and our two flagship programs are in scary condition at best. Personally, I think football will have a good year next year. Basketball is a horror show.

Im fully aware of the challenge of keeping alumni content and engaged. Its a task an AD owns as part of their position. Let me know how thats going as we currently are the worst team in the p4 in cfb, and are now staring down what? 4 tournament appearances in 10 years for basketball? Are the alumni/boosters perfectly fine with this?

 

[RedtheGOB]

I don't know how many times this needs to be explained on this board, often to the same posters.

People want information. Then they get information.

Only to just reject it.

Bizarre.

Agreed. It’s Corporate America 101 and that’s what SU is. The Long time CEO that was successful gets old and is running the company into the ground.

They don’t go external. They always go internal and cheap. That person gets a year or two and if they don’t work out then they’re scapegoated.

Boeheims legacy remains intact and ADJW will deflect that it wasn’t his call either, he hired the most Senior coach under Boeheim.

Unfortunately its Autry that will be remembered as the failure. It happens all the time and I will keep saying that it happened at the company I worked at about 5-6 year ago.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I know plenty of people here are ADJW fans but I’ve hardly seen any CEO’s or other AD’s get so many excuses

There a few posters who are friends with, or otherwise connected to, members of the school, AD or one of the teams and push their chosen narrative: “It couldn’t possibly be MY guy’s fault.” So the end result is that it’s no one’s responsibility and just the result of external forces beyond anyone’s control. Shrug. Like there are no other successful organizations.

 

[LAorange44]

Agreed. It’s Corporate America 101 and that’s what SU is. The Long time CEO that was successful gets old and is running the company into the ground.

They don’t go external. They always go internal and cheap. That person gets a year or two and if they don’t work out then they’re scapegoated.

Boeheims legacy remains intact and ADJW will deflect that it wasn’t his call either, he hired the most Senior coach under Boeheim.

Unfortunately its Autry that will be remembered as the failure. It happens all the time and I will keep saying that it happened at the company I worked at about 5-6 year ago.

Syracuse basketball is basically Kodak now

 

[Cusefan95]

Im sure he’s a good man, so I would never stoop to saying any of the nonsense you insinuate I would. Im not here for petty insults.

The reality here is SU athletics haven’t improved and our two flagship programs are in scary condition at best. Personally, I think football will have a good year next year. Basketball is a horror show.

Im fully aware of the challenge of keeping alumni content and engaged. Its a task an AD owns as part of their position. Let me know how thats going as we currently are the worst team in the p4 in cfb, and are now staring down what? 4 tournament appearances in 10 years for basketball? Are the alumni/boosters perfectly fine with this?

I don’t care how things are going in the context of this discussion. Your claim was that Red was 100% Wildhack’s choice. That is demonstrably bullshit, which was my point.

Instead of admitting your initial claim was nonsense, you’re pivoting to how things are going. That’s not relevant at all to your original claim. So let’s get back to that:

Do you admit your original claim is nonsense and isn’t at all “how the realm works world works”? Or are you just going to keep moving goalposts around so you can keep from having to accept your initial claim is delusional?

 

[PoppyHart]

You must have a pretty broad field for the term premier program if Syracuse still falls under that category. The program was clearly in a negative decline at the time of elevating Red and the program has stayed on that course. Barely above .500 in conference play since joining the ACC.

Would a negative decline be an incline?

 

[PoppyHart]

“Amazing assistant” is very subjective. He was an assistant with the program during its lowest performance in the past 50 years.

Maybe it would be more appropriate to say it’s amazing that he was an assistant for so long.

 

[RedtheGOB]

hah if people are looking for accountability they're not going to find any, not for the past and not for this year.

Even if this season goes into the toilet it will still be with the caveat.

"If only Donnie didn't get hurt"

 

[Trueblue25]

I don’t care how things are going in the context of this discussion. Your claim was that Red was 100% Wildhack’s choice. That is demonstrably bullshit, which was my point.

Instead of admitting your initial claim was nonsense, you’re pivoting to how things are going. That’s not relevant at all to your original claim. So let’s get back to that:

Do you admit your original claim is nonsense and isn’t at all “how the realm works world works”? Or are you just going to keep moving goalposts around so you can keep from having to accept your initial claim is delusional?

He’s an Athletic Director who signed on before JB’s retirement, so OF COURSE he has part ownership in the absolute debacle that turned out to be, resulting in Red’s hiring. It’s in his job description to own the result. Where else should the accountability lie? We continue to honor the guy who supposedly held the entire program hostage. Where should the accountability lie?

Additionally, the major athletic programs themselves have devolved into shells of themselves. By what measure is whats going on acceptable job performance? We’ve got some nice updated buildings, ill concede that.

 

[phil77]

My biggest thing is are we going to do everything we can to correct the course of action for our basketball program (if Red doesn't make it), because unlike our football program, our basketball program still has a national name. Or are we going to make bad, cheap hire after bad cheap hire after bad cheap hire? Are we going to turn our nose up at proven coaches because we are "too good of a university" for someone with a checkered past? Are we going to open up the checkbook to pay to dig us out of the hole?

If Bruce Pearl calls and says he wants to come (won't happen just an example), do we turn him down because of his past? Because of the moral high ground? Because we don't want to pay him? That will tell me more about AD than having to keep Red.

 

[LAorange44]

My biggest thing is are we going to do everything we can to correct the course of action for our basketball program (if Red doesn't make it), because unlike our football program, our basketball program still has a national name. Or are we going to make bad, cheap hire after bad cheap hire after bad cheap hire? Are we going to turn our nose up at proven coaches because we are "too good of a university" for someone with a checkered past? Are we going to open up the checkbook to pay to dig us out of the hole?

If Bruce Pearl calls and says he wants to come (won't happen just an example), do we turn him down because of his past? Because of the moral high ground? Because we don't want to pay him? That will tell me more about AD than having to keep Red.

Not trying to start but we still have a brand with middle aged folks who watch college basketball and maybe buy a couple tickets. National pundits talk about Syracuse with an eye on the past. We are nostalgia. With recruits (16-18 year olds) your brand is what you have done for the last 7 years. In that regard, syracuse is utterly cooked. What have we accomplished in the last 7 years that capture the eyes, attention, and hearts of today’s top recruits. Nada. That’s why we haven’t had a draft pick in god knows how many years.

 

[phil77]

Not trying to start but we still have a brand with middle aged folks who watch college basketball and maybe buy a couple tickets. National pundits talk about Syracuse with an eye on the past. We are nostalgia. With recruits (16-18 year olds) your brand is what you have done for the last 7 years. In that regard, syracuse is utterly cooked. What have we accomplished in the last 7 years that capture the eyes, attention, and hearts of today’s top recruits. Nada. That’s why we haven’t had a draft pick in god knows how many years.

Probably true which is why the hire is even more important.

 

[LAorange44]

Probably true which is why the hire is even more important.

And to your earlier question, with the history of having a two-time probation coach in boeheim, the school shouldn’t be turning its nose up on any coach eligible to coach if they want to compete.

 

[Cusefan95]

He’s an Athletic Director who signed on before JB’s retirement, so OF COURSE he has part ownership in the absolute debacle that turned out to be, resulting in Red’s hiring. It’s in his job description to own the result. Where else should the accountability lie? We continue to honor the guy who supposedly held the entire program hostage. Where should the accountability lie?

Additionally, the major athletic programs themselves have devolved into shells of themselves. By what measure is whats going on acceptable job performance? We’ve got some nice updated buildings, ill concede that.

I’m fine with “part ownership”. In the case of hiring Red, the debate is how big a part. If you’re saying “JW made a mistake hiring Red” - you’ve got to be clear what the mistake was. If it’s not fighting the powerful BOT and booster stakeholders harder - fine. It wasn’t going to happen, he wasn’t going to win that battle and we’d have a different AD at this point if he’d even tried (and there’s a good chance Red is still the coach anyway). If it’s that Red was JWs guy - which is your claim - that is absolutely insane nonsense completely detached from reality.

I don’t care about all the other issues you keep trying to add into the mix. They are not relevant to this discussion. The discussion is if Red was the guy that Wildhack hired with no reservations, or was Red a person he hired because OTHERS in the university with power advocated for it so strongly he felt he had no option but to go along with it. You still keep pulling the same nonsense, now you are trying to move the goalpost to “part ownership” (and continue to add other issues into the mix) - can you try honesty just one time please?

It’s important to get this right for one reason, and it’s not because of Wildhack. Syracuse University has had a weird culture for at least 40 years where a whole lot of people feel they are higher on the org chart than the AD on athletic department decisions. It’s not ideal, and it’s the majority of reasons for current poor performances. My concern is the people who want to complain endlessly about JW (and blame him and him alone for Red like that was entirely his call) don’t get this. If JW gets fired, almost nothing about the reasons we are struggling change. And it probably makes things worse, because trying to hire an Athletic Director to a job where he’s going to have to deal with lots of people with big egos tying his hands on decisions and then holding him fully accountable for the decisions they themselves made is a fantastic way to get a terrible AD. The BOT is a much, much, much, much bigger problem than Wildhack - and it’s been this way for multiple generations at this point. There’s a huge cultural issue at Syracuse University.

 

[atlanticuse]

Would JAB have won more games than Autry the past 3 years?
GMac?

Another coach?

 

[tptcuse]

Not trying to start but we still have a brand with middle aged folks who watch college basketball and maybe buy a couple tickets. National pundits talk about Syracuse with an eye on the past. We are nostalgia. With recruits (16-18 year olds) your brand is what you have done for the last 7 years. In that regard, syracuse is utterly cooked. What have we accomplished in the last 7 years that capture the eyes, attention, and hearts of today’s top recruits. Nada. That’s why we haven’t had a draft pick in god knows how many years.

Middle aged folks (and older) are the ones doing the coaching AND the hiring so we need to jump on things as soon as possible so we can get one of those people before our name truly deteriorates. Or if we're lucky, moving forward we play more like the Houston game (with a win though) and less like against Iowa State.

 

[Sbucketball]

Would JAB have won more games than Autry the past 3 years?
GMac?

Another coach?

After losses lately I wonder if we switched coaches whether the outcome would be different. No way of knowing, but most of the time I assume the answer is yes.

I view it like this: If we still want to be a Top 10 program, we should have a Top 10 coach in D1. The on-court product indicates Autry is at best a bottom half coach in D1. Even if he were a bit above average, IMO that's not good enough for this program, or at least for the program I think this still is.