First post new board re rebuild: warning LONG!

[ORANGEsPHK]

Oh, and SUskibum, I liked your read on the team and Coach Marrone. Like your optimism that Marrone is still learning to be a good/great HC and that he'll get there. I think many of us are hoping for the same.

 

[chakka3421]

I think you guys forget that one of the first things he has done was to rebuild the relationships with NY HS coaches. I have heard he has developed major inroads into NYC, LI & most of upstate except Roch & Buf areas - which I am sure he is continuing to work on.

The value of those relationships cannot be undrestimated as NY coaches will alert SU staff about potential D1 recruits long before anyone else. My understanding is that Grob did nothing like what DM is doing (according to my friend who is a high school coach).

The move to the ACC should strengthen those relationships in NY and help in surrounding states in the NE as well.

 

[orangecuse]

Right, so you're basing your judgments off other people's judgments without actually seeing many of these players to make an um... judgment. Maybe you should be a recruiter for SU... But I'd prefer it be Buttgers

Oh now come on. If you truly believe that 4-5 star recruits aren't generally more physically talented at the time of their recruitment (thereby a higher potential/ceiling) then your viewpoint appears to be a rather obtuse one. Does it guarantee great success or that 2-3 star types can't develop into excellent players, even make the pros, of course not. SU has had its share of lower rated recruits turn out spectacular, exceeding expectations, making it to the NFL.

However, there clearly is a direct causal relationship between teams that typically get these kids and teams which do not and their school's general overall success. It's foolish to claim otherwise. Why do Ivy league schools consistently attract the brightest students? Do you think excellent grades/SAT scores aren't a contributing factor?

Of course there are exceptions, as you implied with your Notre Dame example and their recent lack of success regardless of all those 4-5 star types, however, how about all the schools that are consistently at the top, i.e. Alabama, Florida, LSU, Texas, OU, USC, OSU, UM, etc., etc. Same thing in college hoops...

Additionally, maybe TheMayor hasn't seen any of these kids, who cares, have you? He's not claiming to be a scout or a so-called expert in the field. Isn't that what the plethora of scouting services out there do? For us to take that enormous amount of information and take it for what it's worth. I'm certain that a lot of the information is substantial and of pretty good assessment, otherwise the various schools wouldn't use them as a tool.

I do not think any of the aforementioned schools above will be shifting their recruitment anytime soon for the 2 star type in lieu of the 4-5 star kind...call them crazy I guess...

 

[SUskibum]

I think you guys forget that one of the first things he has done was to rebuild the relationships with NY HS coaches. I have heard he has developed major inroads into NYC, LI & most of upstate except Roch & Buf areas - which I am sure he is continuing to work on.

The value of those relationships cannot be undrestimated as NY coaches will alert SU staff about potential D1 recruits long before anyone else. My understanding is that Grob did nothing like what DM is doing (according to my friend who is a high school coach).

The move to the ACC should strengthen those relationships in NY and help in surrounding states in the NE as well.

Yes, I think he is doing a remarkable job giving us immediate results record wise and focusing simotaneously on projects that will bear more longer term fruit.

1 think i really like is his idea that these northeast/nyc kids will have higher ceiling because they havent played as much ball and presumably havent been exposed to the strength programs like kids from the south are exposed to at early ages. It will however mean our S&C program will have to get on its game, and currently it is not.

I dont know if many realize it but from the time the 18 year kid arrives to campus to the time he is a senior star, he should have dropped his forty by 1-3 tenths and added 20-40lbs of PURE MUSCLE depending on position. If anyone has noticed we have not been having this progress since the 90's.

Noticable exceptions have been an anthony smith or DC3 but I can tell you from personal contact with some of the players that they did a LOT of their training on thier own. I hope along with our offensive strategy that S&C is at the top of the list coaches are currently evaluating the effectivness of.

 

[TheMayor]

Oh now come on. If you truly believe that 4-5 star recruits aren't generally more physically talented at the time of their recruitment (thereby a higher potential/ceiling) then your viewpoint appears to be a rather obtuse one. Does it guarantee great success or that 2-3 star types can't develop into excellent players, even make the pros, of course not. SU has had its share of lower rated recruits turn out spectacular, exceeding expectations, making it to the NFL.

Thank you, because clearly BoomStickO thinks Syracuse can compete for national titles with the current talent level. Syracuse is missing out on the players at the top of their recruiting boards, and it's going to be tough for them to consistently grab the players at the top of their boards.

Additionally, maybe TheMayor hasn't seen any of these kids, who cares, have you? He's not claiming to be a scout or a so-called expert in the field. Isn't that what the plethora of scouting services out there do? For us to take that enormous amount of information and take it for what it's worth. I'm certain that a lot of the information is substantial and of pretty good assessment, otherwise the various schools wouldn't use them as a tool.

I do not think any of the aforementioned schools above will be shifting their recruitment anytime soon for the 2 star type in lieu of the 4-5 star kind...call them crazy I guess...

Exactly my point. But this kid seems to just want to ride me for some reason.

 

[sufandu]

Good post sufandu. I agree with most of what you said. Marrone isn't a dummy. He knows the reputation of the SU program after GROB ran it into the ground. Coach Marrone knows that he isn't going to be able to bring the top talent in the country with SU's extremely poor performance in the GROB era (and, yes, it was an era, one I'd like to really forget). I think Coach is being realistic and recruiting players that SU can get that have potential to grow into great college players. Until we get to a consistent and winning program, we have to recruit the best potential recruits that will come to SU. But absolutely nothing wrong with going for the top recruits, just the percentages are not in our favor right now.

Absolutely. I hope I didn't make it sound as if we shouldn't ever go for highly rated guys, especially if they're in our prime recruiting area. I think DM is doing that eg Jarron Jones and Ishaq Williams, but he doesn't waste time on them once he knows they're not interested. Then he moves on to his plan B that seems to be well thought out. I can't wait until we can start getting some of those guys.

 

[shantydaze]

We could just pay JUCO players like Auburn *allegedly* did and see whether that garners us more success. While I say this in jest, it is something we need to consider when looking at Marrone's recruiting classes and where he gets his recruits from. I am not advocating we cheat, but if we are going into SEC country or battling certain schools for recruits, there might be reasons other than the Dome or the weather why kids are going to other schools.

As other posters have noted, Marrone needs cause SU to be THE destination for NYS kids. One of the problems, though, is being a private school. Schools that have done this in their respective states (Wisconsin, Nebraska, Penn State) can convince in-state kids to walk-on as opposed to being a scholarship player. This allows the schools to have more scholarships available for out of state students. This is much easier for a player and his family to stomach when they are paying in-state tuition of $8,000 to $10,000 a year than private school tuition like SU's.

 

[BoomStickO]

Thank you, because clearly BoomStickO thinks Syracuse can compete for national titles with the current talent level. Syracuse is missing out on the players at the top of their recruiting boards, and it's going to be tough for them to consistently grab the players at the top of their boards.

Exactly my point. But this kid seems to just want to ride me for some reason.

Don't be a clown. I'm just knocking the recruiting star-rating system. Of course the team still has a ways to go talent wise, but don't place all your faith in the number of stars each of this team's recruits has. That is all.

 

[Jeepers]

Always thought there should be a snowball fight tradition at SU. Make a recruitment video with it, in a humorous way. I personally hate (for example) Florida and thought it was a God-awful place to spend a Christmas. Surely some recruits would *want* some snow, no? Don't southern kids wonder about going to school in the north?

I think the dome used to be a great recruiting angle. I personally think it's fine, but I have heard a lot of negative talk about its condition lately. But maybe UConn/Rutgers are the reason our recruiting has dropped off.

 

[BoomStickO]

maybe UConn/Rutgers are the reason our recruiting has dropped off.

Not for long.