Frank and trevor......

[CuseFaninVT]

Love the revisionist history regarding Cooney's defense. He got steals but was terrible contesting shots or preventing guard penetration. Howard is better now than Cooney as a senior, but he has lapses where he takes a break when he shouldn't.

And protect the ball better? He rarely if ever brought the ball up, or initiated the offense. He received passes, shot the ball, or passed immediately back to the PG.

I'm with Otto Mets on this one.

 

[Newhouser]

Trevor single handedly beat ND here and had other games that he carried us. Frank is more athletic but to date Trevor dwarfs his accomplishments. Both guys are playing too many minutes.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Trevor single handedly beat ND here and had other games that he carried us. Frank is more athletic but to date Trevor dwarfs his accomplishments. Both guys are playing too many minutes.

Absolutely agree about minutes and accomplishments to date.

 

[Eric15]

How soon they forget... Craig Forth got more undeserved abuse here than any player within my memory. He was our solid starting center for four years (including the 2003 NC team where his contributions were never properly appreciated). He's now a high school principal, but it took him nearly 10 years to return to SU ... because of the abuse he got from the fan base.

Craig Forth and Troy Nunes are the two SU athletes which our fanbase should be ashamed the way they treated.

 

[Eric15]

Jason Hart. Those of us around for those discussions will hold him as the gold standard for polarization.

The Hart vs Griffin debates were legendary.

Hart was an unbelievable on-the-ball defender, which is why he played a decade in the NBA and got time in 23 playoff games. But as an offensive player he was maddening. His shot selection, and his turnovers per game was actually at it's highest for him as a senior.

 

[newmexicuse]

Love the revisionist history regarding Cooney's defense. He got steals but was terrible contesting shots or preventing guard penetration. Howard is better now than Cooney as a senior, but he has lapses where he takes a break when he shouldn't.

And protect the ball better? He rarely if ever brought the ball up, or initiated the offense. He received passes, shot the ball, or passed immediately back to the PG.

I'm with Otto Mets on this one.

This is so crazy to even compare Frank to Trevor so far. Trevor was an accomplished player, who overcame a lack of athleticism and compiled a solid albeit not spectacular career. In an ideal world he should have been a 15 to 20 minute instant O spark off the bench. He was asked to do much more, and he was solid doing it. As with all shooters, his scoring was somewhat erratic, but the rest of his game was very consistent within his limitations.

As for frank, you have a player with upside and athleticism. Maybe not elite athleticism, but above average athleticism. His entire game is erratic. He is "iffy" mentally. He has yet to have a single, solitary high performance game against high level competition. Going into the season i was a Howard skeptic. After watching him a couple of times, I now do think he has turned the corner. But let's get real, in actuality, he has proved and accomplished NOTHING against high quality competition to date. I do believe he will now start to perform better against better competion, but let's see that happen first before we start to say he is better than Trevor or any other solid Cuse player from our past. TOs have and are still plaguing Frank, he will need to cut them down or mark my words sooner or later they will go to his head.

 

[Bayside44]

The "great Syracuse" fans love to beat up their own. Earlier today one of our great fans was defending the schedule that G-town has this year by knocking ours in the past. You won't see that on a g-town board.

Georgetown has a board?

 

[Eric15]

Georgetown has a board?

It's literally just a 2 x 4 piece of wood that their couple fans sit on while wearing Brooks Brothers outfits.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

This is so crazy to even compare Frank to Trevor so far. Trevor was an accomplished player, who overcame a lack of athleticism and compiled a solid albeit not spectacular career. In an ideal world he should have been a 15 to 20 minute instant O spark off the bench. He was asked to do much more, and he was solid doing it. As with all shooters, his scoring was somewhat erratic, but the rest of his game was very consistent within his limitations.

As for frank, you have a player with upside and athleticism. Maybe not elite athleticism, but above average athleticism. His entire game is erratic. He is "iffy" mentally. He has yet to have a single, solitary high performance game against high level competition. Going into the season i was a Howard skeptic. After watching him a couple of times, I now do think he has turned the corner. But let's get real, in actuality, he has proved and accomplished NOTHING against high quality competition to date. I do believe he will now start to perform better against better competion, but let's see that happen first before we start to say he is better than Trevor or any other solid Cuse player from our past. TOs have and are still plaguing Frank, he will need to cut them down or mark my words sooner or later they will go to his head.

Lack of athleticism? I remember him dunking often so I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[newmexicuse]

Lack of athleticism? I remember him dunking often so I'm not sure if you just mean "white."

Your comment is insulting and crazy. I hope you will take it back.

Can you seriously argue that Trevor had better than average athleticism ?

On this year's team I would say our most athletic player is Marek.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Your comment is insulting and crazy. I hope you will take it back.

Can you seriously argue that Trevor had better than average athleticism ?

On this year's team I would say our most athletic player is Marek.

Yes, I'd say he had better than average athleticism. GMac was average athleticism. Trevor was far more athletic than Gerry, or Scoop, or many others.

I was trying to be a bit of dick just to get you to describe what you meant by "a lack of athleticism" which is a much different description than your current "not better than average."

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Your comment is insulting and crazy. I hope you will take it back.

Can you seriously argue that Trevor had better than average athleticism ?

On this year's team I would say our most athletic player is Marek.

Yeah, not sure I'd give the nod to Marek at this point. Battle and Brissett both seem more athletic. I guess we could compare leaping ability. Not sure what else you are bringing into the equation. Both guys I mentioned are stronger than Marek. Marek has the best "motor" I've seen so far.

 

[tbonezone]

Georgetown has a board?

a dead man could get more hits than the georgetown board !

 

[hungrychuck]

This is so crazy to even compare Frank to Trevor so far. Trevor was an accomplished player, who overcame a lack of athleticism and compiled a solid albeit not spectacular career. In an ideal world he should have been a 15 to 20 minute instant O spark off the bench. He was asked to do much more, and he was solid doing it. As with all shooters, his scoring was somewhat erratic, but the rest of his game was very consistent within his limitations.

As for frank, you have a player with upside and athleticism. Maybe not elite athleticism, but above average athleticism. His entire game is erratic. He is "iffy" mentally. He has yet to have a single, solitary high performance game against high level competition. Going into the season i was a Howard skeptic. After watching him a couple of times, I now do think he has turned the corner. But let's get real, in actuality, he has proved and accomplished NOTHING against high quality competition to date. I do believe he will now start to perform better against better competion, but let's see that happen first before we start to say he is better than Trevor or any other solid Cuse player from our past. TOs have and are still plaguing Frank, he will need to cut them down or mark my words sooner or later they will go to his head.

This is exactly right. It's easy to see why Trevor was polarizing. He had a significant record of performance/accomplishment for people to pick over and draw their own conclusions.

I don't think Frank has done enough at SU for there to be a serious "pro" side of the argument, and so therefore not polarizing. Yes, he has shown some hints of improvement this year, which have been duly noted, and one must hope that those blossom into consistently better play.

But I think it's more accurate to describe a "down on Frank" group and a second group that is trying to remain open-minded and optimistic while watching Frank through cracks in the fingers over their eyes.

 

[newmexicuse]

Yes, I'd say he had better than average athleticism. GMac was average athleticism. Trevor was far more athletic than Gerry, or Scoop, or many others.

I was trying to be a bit of dick just to get you to describe what you meant by "a lack of athleticism" which is a much different description than your current "not better than average."

Personally, I would say all the players you cited had about average athleticism.

Pretty much any D1 player can dunk these days, so that as a standard for athleticism means almost nothing. Though i am not sure Scoop or gerry could do that. Gerry had a quicker first step and was quicker on his jump and release as compared to Trevor. Scoop was simply so smooth. It is hard to gauge exactly how athletic "smooth" players are. I think it is fair to say none of those players in terms of athleticism could be compared to Stevie or Hak. or Rony.

I should have said "lack of above average athleticism" in my post, which is what I actually meant.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Personally, I would say all the players you cited had about average athleticism.

Pretty much any D1 player can dunk these days, so that as a standard for athleticism means almost nothing. Though i am not sure Scoop or gerry could do that. Gerry had a quicker first step and was quicker on his jump and release as compared to Trevor. Scoop was simply so smooth. It is hard to gauge exactly how athletic "smooth" players are. I think it is fair to say none of those players in terms of athleticism could be compared to Steve or Hak. or Rony (to get a white player in there).

I should have said "lack of above average athleticism" in my post, which is what I actually meant.

Fair enough. I apologize for the implication of race-based judging there.

 

[tbonezone]

trevor would have been a nice 15 minutes per 6th man. instead he was a 40 minute 2 guard without much game. not his fault.

 

[newmexicuse]

Lack of athleticism? I remember him dunking often so I'm not sure what you mean.

I appreciate your editing this post.

 

[MSOrange]

Personally, I would say all the players you cited had about average athleticism.

Pretty much any D1 player can dunk these days, so that as a standard for athleticism means almost nothing. Though i am not sure Scoop or gerry could do that. Gerry had a quicker first step and was quicker on his jump and release as compared to Trevor. Scoop was simply so smooth. It is hard to gauge exactly how athletic "smooth" players are. I think it is fair to say none of those players in terms of athleticism could be compared to Stevie or Hak. or Rony.

I should have said "lack of above average athleticism" in my post, which is what I actually meant.

Not the main point of your post, which I think I agree with. But visual evidence that Scoop could dunk

 

[newmexicuse]

Not the main point of your post, which I think I agree with. But visual evidence that Scoop could dunk

Now, can you find a video of gerry dunking - LOL !!!

 

[MSOrange]

Now, can you find a video of gerry dunking - LOL !!!

I tried! But no dice.

 

[Cheriehoop]

Love the revisionist history regarding Cooney's defense. He got steals but was terrible contesting shots or preventing guard penetration. Howard is better now than Cooney as a senior, but he has lapses where he takes a break when he shouldn't.

And protect the ball better? He rarely if ever brought the ball up, or initiated the offense. He received passes, shot the ball, or passed immediately back to the PG.

I'm with Otto Mets on this one.

Uggh, great display here. Arguing over SU players , ripping on them, comparing them- let's vote on the internet 'winner' sitting in front of their computer. Craig Forth, Gerry McNamara, Donte Green, Terrence Roberts, Andy Rautins, Brandon Triche, Scoop, Trevor Cooney etc all took their turns being the assigned team goat. Always disheartening, disappointing and confounding seeing 'fans' designate their favorite team goat and even get defensive if someone dares defend their favorite themed player to rip on. :bat:Comparing Howard and Cooney who had totally different positions, different teammates and never even played any true minutes together nor vied for playing time.

Cooney played, coordinated up top defense and offense with 4 different point guards - MCW, Ennis, Joseph and Mike G in his years here. Opponents from 2012 through 2016 averaged 6.2 to 7 three pointers made a game. This year opponents even before the meat of the season are averaging 9 made 3 pointers and having the highest % made .385 in any of the previous 5 years (which was 2013-2014 at .345%). Made 3 pointers are a function of the communication , execution and rotation by the entire defensive effort for all 5 players to the perimeter. Even one weak link and offenses will jump on it.

 

[721Comstock]

IIRC, both Scoop and Andy Rautins ended up dunking in games late in the '10 season.
Pretty sure both just wanted to shut everybody up who said they couldn't dunk. Don't recall either ever doing it again.

Trevor on the other hand, he had like 3x in a row just against BC that one time, where he stole the ball and then drove down and threw it down HARD.
At the time, I was wondering "why do they keep showing this replay over and over again?" - took me a bit to realize is wasn't the same play, just 3 of them that looked almost identical, in rapid succession.

I'm pretty sure Gerry can't dunk.
Not that < 6' guys can't dunk - but sub-6' white guys who can are a rare breed.

"Athleticism" isn't everything. Pearl may have been the least "athletic" guard we've had, like ever.
Didn't stop him from being the GOAT in HS, and stupid awesome in college.
His skills and hoops IQ were otherworldly. Just clowned dudes.

 

[two3zone]

I don't think I've seen one thing Frank do that Cooney couldn't based on athleticism. Is this a black and white thing? This is ridiculous.

 

[CINYer]

IIRC, both Scoop and Andy Rautins ended up dunking in games late in the '10 season.
Pretty sure both just wanted to shut everybody up who said they couldn't dunk. Don't recall either ever doing it again.

Trevor on the other hand, he had like 3x in a row just against BC that one time, where he stole the ball and then drove down and threw it down HARD.
At the time, I was wondering "why do they keep showing this replay over and over again?" - took me a bit to realize is wasn't the same play, just 3 of them that looked almost identical, in rapid succession.

I'm pretty sure Gerry can't dunk.
Not that < 6' guys can't dunk - but sub-6' white guys who can are a rare breed.

"Athleticism" isn't everything. Pearl may have been the least "athletic" guard we've had, like ever.
Didn't stop him from being the GOAT in HS, and stupid awesome in college.
His skills and hoops IQ were otherworldly. Just clowned dudes.

Gerry Dunked in HS, there is a grainy bit of vid on youtube...