FSU vs The ACC

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[orlandoorange]

Personally, I wouldn't consider Tallahassee the Deep South. That's just me.

FSU got outbid for Jimbo's services not too long ago. FSU has some money, but they're far far from rich.

I'm not sure they were out bid, I don't think they saw the same value ATM did

 

[HtownOrange]

I skimmed the complaint. It is heavily one-sided and fails to include relevant facts which mitigate and /or prove FSU is a farce. Obviously, this is expected. FSU has far less to work with than their media releases and this complaint imply. The ACC will fight this and will likely file to object to the venue and jurisdiction based on the GOR referring to the bylaws, which if I recall, require suits to be filed in NC and apply NC law.

Anyway, the Florida courts are likely to side with FSU, to at least secure some documents and a possible ruling or two. IF the Bylaws require suits in NC, FSU does not appear to have substantive complaint in Florida and would likely lose the argument on an elevated appeal (they may win in the Florida courts but not likely to win the NC courts or at the SCOTUS because FSU willing agreed to the agreements and the facts are not in their favor, as implied in the complaint.).

 

[orlandoorange]

I skimmed the complaint. It is heavily one-sided and fails to include relevant facts which mitigate and /or prove FSU is a farce. Obviously, this is expected. FSU has far less to work with than their media releases and this complaint imply. The ACC will fight this and will likely file to object to the venue and jurisdiction based on the GOR referring to the bylaws, which if I recall, require suits to be filed in NC and apply NC law.

Anyway, the Florida courts are likely to side with FSU, to at least secure some documents and a possible ruling or two. IF the Bylaws require suits in NC, FSU does not appear to have substantive complaint in Florida and would likely lose the argument on an elevated appeal (they may win in the Florida courts but not likely to win the NC courts or at the SCOTUS because FSU willing agreed to the agreements and the facts are not in their favor, as implied in the complaint.).

Would NC courts be likely to change their tune if UNC, gets involved?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Please see: Big 12 Announces Agreement for Withdrawal of Texas and Oklahoma

IRVING, Texas — The Big 12 announces that the Conference has agreed in principle to terms with the University of Oklahoma and The University of Texas at Austin to leave the Conference following the 2023-24 athletic year, one year earlier than originally announced, subject to final approval from the OU and UT governing Boards. Compensation to the Conference for the early withdrawals of the two schools totals $100 million in foregone distributable revenues, which OU and UT will be able to partially offset with future revenues.


And:

Big 12 Announces Agreement for Withdrawal of Oklahoma and Texas

The Big 12 announces that the Conference has agreed in principle to terms with the University of Oklahoma and The University of Texas at Austin to leave the Conference following the 2023-24 athletic year, one year earlier than originally announced, subject to final approval from the OU and UT...

www.ou.edu

The Big 12 announces that the Conference has agreed in principle to terms with the University of Oklahoma and The University of Texas at Austin to leave the Conference following the 2023-24 athletic year, one year earlier than originally announced, subject to final approval from the OU and UT governing Boards. Compensation to the Conference for the early withdrawals of the two schools totals $100 million in foregone distributable revenues, which OU and UT will be able to partially offset with future revenues.

Please note that each link is from each school's official website. The statement is from the Big 12. The statements are the same. Three parties to the agreement, posted at two of the parties official sites. This official statement carries much more weight that an internet airhead posting bad math to explain why neither school is paying anything to leave. Believe what you like, but neither school will receive a pay out of the 2023-2024 deal, to be paid after the sports year, unless the earnings exceed the agreement. They may receive postseason incentives and will receive monies for reimbursable expenses (if any). This happens daily in the contracting world. I work in the contracting world, I have some experience in this type of arrangement.

Further, there is no evidence that the deal has been negotiated downwards except from statements taken out of context. There is no incentive for the Big 12 to reduce the costs of getting out early as this was agreed upon by the three parties involved.

Forgive me for holding my ground on this point, but unless the parties state otherwise, there is no basis to fundamentally believe anything different.

For those that want a little more proof:

Oklahoma, Texas agree to leave Big 12 year early

Oklahoma and Texas will leave the Big 12 for the SEC after the 2023-24 season, a year earlier than previously announced.

www.espn.com

Texas, Oklahoma leaving Big 12 early, joining SEC in 2024 season after reaching exit agreement

The Longhorns and Sooners will be in the SEC a full season earlier than originally planned

www.cbssports.com

Oklahoma, Texas agree to leave Big 12 year early

Oklahoma and Texas will leave the Big 12 for the SEC after the 2023-24 season, a year earlier than previously announced.

www.espn.com

Texas, Oklahoma reach agreement with Big 12 to leave for SEC in 2024

Texas and Oklahoma have reached an agreement with the Big 12 to leave for the Southeastern Conference in 2024, one year earlier than planned.

www.usatoday.com

You did not answer my questions. Nothing in your links disputes the article (not some random internet guy) that I posted. The question is NOT the total but what makes up that total. So again...

Answer these questions and just these questions, no tangents.

1. Are Texas and Oklahoma paying any money out of pocket to leave the B12? Yes or No. If yes, please provide supporting article.

2. Are Texas and Oklahoma having any money withheld from the 2023-24 payout? Yes or No. If yes, please provide supporting article.

 

[orangenauburn]

FSU is citing it's "fundamental right to realign with another conference."

Right up there with the rights to freedom of speech, religion and the press. Wonder what Madison and Jefferson would think of that line.

They were a willful participatant and willingly signed off on GoR

They were enriched and benefitted from the signed GoR

Just because the environment has changed since then, doesn't make it unenforceable

Good luck to those jagofffs in pursuit of stupidity

And enjoy paying your lawyers millions of dollars

 

[HtownOrange]

Would NC courts be likely to change their tune if UNC, gets involved?

It is a possibility but the courts are likely to watch what happens with Duke, NCState and Wake, also. Even the Florida courts have to watch out for Miami. Though, it is hard to fathom that FSU did not discuss the lawsuit with the Florida AG before filing it. The FL AG could have used this complaint for the benefit of both Miami and FSU, but the complaint still remains weak as the facts surrounding the complaint are not as favorable as FSU implies.

Others should opine on their thoughts, too. Especially those in contracts and legal positions.

 

[dan7800]

Let us not forget that UNC held shame classes and got away with it. Who knows how this will unfold

 

[cali315phan]

Ignoring the stupidity of this lawsuit, which has no chance, FSU moving to the SEC is moronic. Let me play Bama, Texas, Oklahoma and Georgia in the same year potentially.

 

[HtownOrange]

You did not answer my questions. Nothing in your links disputes the article (not some random internet guy) that I posted. The question is NOT the total but what makes up that total. So again...

Answer these questions and just these questions, no tangents.

1. Are Texas and Oklahoma paying any money out of pocket to leave the B12? Yes or No. If yes, please provide supporting article.

2. Are Texas and Oklahoma having any money withheld from the 2023-24 payout? Yes or No. If yes, please provide supporting article.

1) Yes, monies are being withheld from future payments. Whether you agree or not, this is legally and for accounting purposes a payment. If you wish to play the game that a stack of cash is not being pushed across a table from the Big12 to OU and UT for their season share and then OU and UT pushing it back across the table to the Big 12, then so be it. In a court of law, withholding a future payout from one source which is also due a payment from the same party is a payment.

2) Re-read the articles and statements. Or the bolded section of my post. Regardless, OU and UT were owed revenue for each of 2022 -2023 and still owed for 2023-2024 (which will not be paid out until next spring/summer). If the total amounts exceed the agreement ($50MM each), then OU and UT will receive the remainder. If the withholdings do not meet the agreed amount, each school must pay, in one manner or another, monies owed.

Many people confuse the fact that UT and OU will not receive a payment for this year's sports and deem this as proof that UT and OU owe nothing, but that is their mistake. Under the TV deal, both schools are owed monies from each season from the Big 12. UT and OU have agreed to forgo the payments in lieu of actually issuing checks or moving stacks of cash, applying the monies towards the agreed upon separation amount. This is similar to an auto buyer trading in their car for a new car. Generally, the agreed upon trade value is not actually paid to the new car buyer but is applied to the sale of the new care as a down payment - much smaller scale, of course.

An accountant can probably explain this better than I.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

1) Yes, monies are being withheld from future payments. Whether you agree or not, this is legally and for accounting purposes a payment. If you wish to play the game that a stack of cash is not being pushed across a table from the Big12 to OU and UT for their season share and then OU and UT pushing it back across the table to the Big 12, then so be it. In a court of law, withholding a future payout from one source which is also due a payment from the same party is a payment.

2) Re-read the articles and statements. Or the bolded section of my post. Regardless, OU and UT were owed revenue for each of 2022 -2023 and still owed for 2023-2024 (which will not be paid out until next spring/summer). If the total amounts exceed the agreement ($50MM each), then OU and UT will receive the remainder. If the withholdings do not meet the agreed amount, each school must pay, in one manner or another, monies owed.

Many people confuse the fact that UT and OU will not receive a payment for this year's sports and deem this as proof that UT and OU owe nothing, but that is their mistake. Under the TV deal, both schools are owed monies from each season from the Big 12. UT and OU have agreed to forgo the payments in lieu of actually issuing checks or moving stacks of cash, applying the monies towards the agreed upon separation amount. This is similar to an auto buyer trading in their car for a new car. Generally, the agreed upon trade value is not actually paid to the new car buyer but is applied to the sale of the new care as a down payment - much smaller scale, of course.

An accountant can probably explain this better than I.

Again you didn't answer the questions. Instead you create new questions and answered your own questions while avoiding mine.

The Big 12 announced in February that Texas and Oklahoma will forgo $100 million from the conference under an agreement that is allowing the schools to leave a year earlier than initially required. In response to recent questions from the USA TODAY Network, the conference said more than $80 million of that is based on money the schools will not get in 2024-25, the year after the move. The rest is attributed to cuts in full revenue shares for 2023-24 that Texas, Oklahoma and the rest of the Big 12’s continuing members will be taking to finance payments promised to four schools that joined the conference this summer.

The Big 12 wrote that the $100 million cited in the February statement is “an estimate based on financial distribution projections. Conference revenue derived from media rights contracts in (2024-25) will not decrease despite the early departures of OU and Texas. By leaving a year early both institutions forego (fiscal year 2024-25) distributions from the Big 12. The ($100 million) also includes (the schools’) shares of the reduced payouts this (fiscal year) that all 10 continuing members will forego as a result of expansion.”

Texas and Oklahoma also will leave behind a total of at least $13 million in NCAA basketball tournament money over a six-year span.


1. Can you show me an article that proves any of the above wrong?

2. If the above is correct, how is that not fuzzy math?

Roughly $80M of the $100M is money withheld for a season that they are not even participating in. That is like one leaving their job and their employer saying well if you leave now we won't pay you a salary for next year.

The rest of the money is also fuzzy math. Every B12 team agreed to a reduced share in order to bring on the four new schools. That is not unique to Texas and Oklahoma. And it is not a result of them leaving a year early. It was something agreed upon before the agreement to leave a year early was made. So how in the heck can one say that money was to leave a year early? They were getting hit for that whether they stayed or went.

And we are counting NCAA credits too? They have no right to that money so why include it?


In the end Texas gets a full share in 2023-24. Same for Oklahoma. The 8 left behind B12 schools will get roughly $4M more each in 2024-25 from ESPN (not Texas or Oklahoma). That sounds nice but when you take into account that in 2022-23 they made the same amount of money as in 2024-25, it really is a wash for them.

 

[Scooch]

 

[Sherman20]

Uh... The Big 12? They are really flailing. If this move had any validity, it would be done and dusted.

What is wrong with Brett McMurphy? Has he just become a lame old shill for his university BOT sources or whoever is feeding him this nonsense. If FSU tries to go to the Big 12, the ACC would sue them to oblivion. There’s no advantage in the Big12. The ACC can poach Big 12 teams in 2029 when their GOR is up and increase our payout and strengthen the conference.

 

[Sherman20]

The landscape is vastly different then when Maryland left. An entire P5 conference just collapsed. Nobody is getting to just walk away from the ACC.

FSU was a party to drafting the GOR after Maryland left. There was no duress. The intention was to ensure stability. The GOR is working as drafted. There's a general premise with contracts that when there are disputes about contract language/terms, a preference is given to a party who did not draft the language (not an artful way of saying it, but i think you get it).

The Big 12 settled with Texas and Oklahoma for a reduced fee. The other schools probably saw some value in having a certain outcome, avoiding litigation, and getting the money sooner than later. The Texas private schools and OKST probably also had other "incentives" to allow Texas and Oklahoma to depart under collegial terms.

The majority of ACC schools have absolutely no incentive to let FSU just walk away right now. I think richmondcuse03 is spot on. Come up with $500m (an estimate $72m reduction) and we can discuss an exit strategy.

I also agree that FSU doesnt bring the requisite value as an add to the SEC right now; same for the Big 10.

This is a great post. Texas and Oklahoma stayed two more years in the Big 12 and are only departing one year early. They didn’t want to mess with the GOR or pay the exorbitant exit fees or give up their TV rights money for two years. The Big 12 only let them out one year early because that was less skin off their teeth and they decided to take the exit fee money for one year, and now their new schools have all joined and got to play against Texas and Oklahoma for one season.

 

[Sherman20]

Is Brett McMurphy a total numbskull? It’s the cost they estimate to negotiate themselves out of the GOR so they can keep their TV rights. The ACC shouldn’t play ball with this. FSU needs to stop being a petulant child and work to help the other schools strengthen the conference and make a long term plan to do so.

 

[suorange08]

Again you didn't answer the questions. Instead you create new questions and answered your own questions while avoiding mine.

The Big 12 announced in February that Texas and Oklahoma will forgo $100 million from the conference under an agreement that is allowing the schools to leave a year earlier than initially required. In response to recent questions from the USA TODAY Network, the conference said more than $80 million of that is based on money the schools will not get in 2024-25, the year after the move. The rest is attributed to cuts in full revenue shares for 2023-24 that Texas, Oklahoma and the rest of the Big 12’s continuing members will be taking to finance payments promised to four schools that joined the conference this summer.

The Big 12 wrote that the $100 million cited in the February statement is “an estimate based on financial distribution projections. Conference revenue derived from media rights contracts in (2024-25) will not decrease despite the early departures of OU and Texas. By leaving a year early both institutions forego (fiscal year 2024-25) distributions from the Big 12. The ($100 million) also includes (the schools’) shares of the reduced payouts this (fiscal year) that all 10 continuing members will forego as a result of expansion.”

Texas and Oklahoma also will leave behind a total of at least $13 million in NCAA basketball tournament money over a six-year span.


1. Can you show me an article that proves any of the above wrong?

2. If the above is correct, how is that not fuzzy math?

Roughly $80M of the $100M is money withheld for a season that they are not even participating in. That is like one leaving their job and their employer saying well if you leave now we won't pay you a salary for next year.

The rest of the money is also fuzzy math. Every B12 team agreed to a reduced share in order to bring on the four new schools. That is not unique to Texas and Oklahoma. And it is not a result of them leaving a year early. It was something agreed upon before the agreement to leave a year early was made. So how in the heck can one say that money was to leave a year early? They were getting hit for that whether they stayed or went.

And we are counting NCAA credits too? They have no right to that money so why include it?


In the end Texas gets a full share in 2023-24. Same for Oklahoma. The 8 left behind B12 schools will get roughly $4M more each in 2024-25 from ESPN (not Texas or Oklahoma). That sounds nice but when you take into account that in 2022-23 they made the same amount of money as in 2024-25, it really is a wash for them.

You are correct that OU and UT won't have revenue withheld for this year. They will however next year. They will receive no tv money from the Big12 or SEC for 2023-2024. ESPN is doing them a solid and sending them an undisclosed amount of payments though.

 

[tep624]

It’s pretty obvious we’re ramping up to either chase a B1G bid or be attractive to whatever conference remains or what was the PAC12 / BIG12 / ACC group of teams. So at least we’re being proactive.

 

[Tango32]

I'm petty. I hope they hold them hostage in the ACC until 2036. Them wanting out so dam bad makes it that much more enjoyable.

 

[Cusefan78]

I once had a woman that paid me $6800 for materials for a job in banded $1s and rolled quarters. I wanted to strangle her. It was a full plastic grocery bag and then some.

I was once offered 18k in Tully dollars to do some work.

 

[Willy75]

One good thing is that this story has almost completely buried mention of SU’s woeful performance last night.

 

[kingtidge]

I am not a lawyer, but this seems like a stretch of an argument.

It's harder to prove than a straight breach of contract case for sure.

 

[dan7800]

One good thing is that this story has almost completely buried mention of SU’s woeful performance last night.

My kid got sick and threw up all over me and herself last night about 9pm. While I missed most of the game, I had the same experience as you all who watched it.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

My kid got sick and threw up all over me and herself last night about 9pm. While I missed most of the game, I had the same experience as you all who watched it.

She was watching the game?

 

[FasterCuse]

They are a state university, they can’t file for bankruptcy.

The State of Florida isn’t going fund this nonsense.

I don't put anything past the state of Florida. They're taking in Disney. Why wouldn't they take on the ACC

 

[OrangePA]

FSU.