FSU vs The ACC

[WoadBlue]

They can say whatever they want. If they win or not is up to a judge. No one has tried to get out of a GOR, so who knows and who knows if they reach a settlement.

The ACC has done a terrible job negotiating on behalf of the schools. Look at the media markets. The ACC has 9 of the top 23 markets in their footprint.

If the schools in question cannot deliver large numbers of TV viewers from that market, then the league being in these markets has no meaning. UGA dwarfs GT in Atlanta. In sports terms within the market, BC is nothing compared all Boston Pro sports. In fact BC football is not even bigger than the Harvard-Yale game. Syracuse cannot hope to deliver enough of the NYC TV market to help the ACC. Pitt is better in its market than BC is, but that aint saying much.

Wake Forest is a distant #3 in Winston-Salem, which means Wake brings literally 0 (ZERO). Miami draws decent TV numbers outside Miami only the the Canes are an 11-1 type team.

What the BT and SEC have always known is that state flagship and/or land grant schools have much better odds of attracting and maintaining large and passionate fam bases than other types of schools. And that is even more true in football than in basketball. The ACC now has 2 flagships (UNC, UVA), 3 land grants (NCSU, VT, and Clemson), and 1 half-claimed, barely recognized co-flagship (FSU).

Even though WV is small, WVU would be better for the ACC than BC or Wake.

 

[anomander]

How many times is Woadblue going to tell us that we’re not going be at the big boy table?

If this thing ends up 2 conferences, we’re going to the Big 10.

How so? Thanks to Cantor we lost our AAU accreditation years ago. Sure people will say Nebraska doesn't have one, but they did when they were invited and entered the B10. The B10 will take UNC, and then either Duke/UVA, or both plus ND. SEC/ESPN won't let B10 add FSU to get a footprint in the SE. They will end up in the SEC with Clemson, and then possibly NCST and VT, giving them more access to NC and the DMV. Louisville, Pitt, GT, Miami will go to the B12 and if the SEC doesn't take NCST/VT they will get the B12 invite too. If this was 7 years ago and our basketball brand was still what it was we would have had a very good chance to at least land in the B12. Right now imo we are on the outside looking in. Wildhack will have to pull every string he can to keep us relevant. Still, I think best case scenario is a B12 invite.

 

[Scotch]

I really don't think they care about being also-rans as much as they want that extra $30m. If FSU finds a way out we are in deep trouble because everyone will follow. ACC should have been proactive a long time ago and raided the B12 before they made their move. Thank Duke for not allowing WVU in. When OU and Texas left the B12 and they were on the backfoot the ACC should have made a move for WVU, OK St, Baylor, TCU, Houston, Kansas, Kansas St, etc. Now we have to hope we somehow get picked up by the B12 once it all comes to an end be it this year, 5 years, or 2036.

None of those schools would have changed anything. Those are all leftovers.

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

The ACC invited Syracuse not once, but twice, and yet somehow we are going to be sitting in a mid-major conference after realignment.

In terms of players/coaches we just poached; Colorado, Georgia, Texas A&M, Penn State, and Ohio State. Those are not mid-major moves. We are going to be fine.

Pessimism is too far often conflated with realism on this board.

 

[anomander]

None of those schools would have changed anything. Those are all leftovers.

It doesn't matter it would have solidified the ACC as the 3rd power conference. Now, be it this year, 2029, or 2036, the B12 will be the 3rd power conference as they will raid what is left over of the ACC.

 

[anomander]

The ACC invited Syracuse not once, but twice, and yet somehow we are going to be sitting in a mid-major conference after realignment.

In terms of players/coaches we just poached; Colorado, Georgia, Texas A&M, Penn State, and Ohio State. Those are not mid-major moves. We are going to be fine.

Pessimism is too far often conflated with realism on this board.

That has absolutely nothing to do with the big picture unless FSU is denied and stuck until 2036. That will at least give us a decade to make ourselves more attractive. Without an AAU accreditation we aren't getting the B10 invite. We certainly aren't getting an SEC invite. That leaves the B12 as our only life long, not if, but when the ACC eventually implodes.

 

[orlandoorange]

You think Swofford left money on the table in negotiations? The fact is despite the markets the ACC has smaller private schools that just don’t bring the ratings that the B1G and SEC do. Quite frankly FSU doesn’t bring what Alabama, Georgia, Michigan and OSU do either. It’s been apples and oranges even before they started expanding. The ACC got what it was worth and Swofford did a solid job just keeping it together. FSU is just pitching a hissyfit because of this reality.

Fair point. Outside of the top schools, no one cares about their rest of the SEC or BIG, so it's really 2-3 schools driving each conference.

I do think swofford missed the boat. We were the 3rd or 4th network.

 

[Scotch]

It doesn't matter it would have solidified the ACC as the 3rd power conference. Now, be it this year, 2029, or 2036, the B12 will be the 3rd power conference as they will raid what is left over of the ACC.

Who cares what it’s called? It’s going to be the “have not” conference without a seat at the big boy table. We will be invited to that party, but it’s going to suck.

 

[Scotch]

Fair point. Outside of the top schools, no one cares about their rest of the SEC or BIG, so it's really 2-3 schools driving each conference.

I do think swofford missed the boat. We were the 3rd or 4th network.

But like Woad said, markets don’t matter if nobody in those markets watches the games. The ACC got what it was worth.

 

[orlandoorange]

If the schools in question cannot deliver large numbers of TV viewers from that market, then the league being in these markets has no meaning. UGA dwarfs GT in Atlanta. In sports terms within the market, BC is nothing compared all Boston Pro sports. In fact BC football is not even bigger than the Harvard-Yale game. Syracuse cannot hope to deliver enough of the NYC TV market to help the ACC. Pitt is better in its market than BC is, but that aint saying much.

Wake Forest is a distant #3 in Winston-Salem, which means Wake brings literally 0 (ZERO). Miami draws decent TV numbers outside Miami only the the Canes are an 11-1 type team.

What the BT and SEC have always known is that state flagship and/or land grant schools have much better odds of attracting and maintaining large and passionate fam bases than other types of schools. And that is even more true in football than in basketball. The ACC now has 2 flagships (UNC, UVA), 3 land grants (NCSU, VT, and Clemson), and 1 half-claimed, barely recognized co-flagship (FSU).

Even though WV is small, WVU would be better for the ACC than BC or Wake.

Right, but what does RU bring to the BIG? My understanding is that no one in NYC cares about them, but they're are in the NYC DMA so those numbers, right or wrong, are attributed to RU.

 

[anomander]

Who cares what it’s called? It’s going to be the “have not” conference without a seat at the big boy table. We will be invited to that party, but it’s going to suck.

Just like Oregon St and Washington St won't have the Pac 12 label after this year, Syracuse, BC, and WF, won't have the ACC. It will cease to exist. Anything outside the SEC/B10/B12 is irrelevance and a lost of tens of millions of dollars.

I don't think some people understand just how dire the situation is.

 

[Scotch]

Right, but what does RU bring to the BIG? My understanding is that no one in NYC cares about them, but they're are in the NYC DMA so those numbers, right or wrong, are attributed to RU.

RU had value during the one decade where cable subscribers in states mattered for conference networks. We are already past that and it was a really shortsighted decision by Delaney.

 

[Sherman20]

I really don't think they care about being also-rans as much as they want that extra $30m. If FSU finds a way out we are in deep trouble because everyone will follow. ACC should have been proactive a long time ago and raided the B12 before they made their move. Thank Duke for not allowing WVU in. When OU and Texas left the B12 and they were on the backfoot the ACC should have made a move for WVU, OK St, Baylor, TCU, Houston, Kansas, Kansas St, etc. Now we have to hope we somehow get picked up by the B12 once it all comes to a end be it this year, 5 years, or 2036.

I don’t disagree at all that the ACC should have been proactive with raiding the Big 12 and also raiding the PAC of the four corner schools and Washington and Oregon. BUT FSU (and Clemson and maybe UNC) has been the biggest impediment to expanding the conference for years now. The rationale is they didn’t want to dilute it. FSU is run by a bunch of petulant hypocrites.

 

[Scotch]

Just like Oregon St and Washington St be labeled as Pac 12 after this year, Syracuse, BC, and WF, won't be in the ACC. It will cease to exist. Anything outside the SEC/B10/B12 is irrelevance and a lost of tens of millions of dollars.

I don't think some people understand just how dire the situation is.

The B12 will merge with remaining ACC schools that have value like us. You’re getting too caught up in labels and who will raid who. There will be haves and have nots - that’s it.

 

[Chris02M]

They granted the TV rights to ESPN in exchange for being compensated. If you leave you, you do not own the rights and cannot sell them. They are still owned by ESPN. So you give up the ownership of the TV rights, but do you also give up the right to compensation? If there is not language saying that, would they not be entitled to the payout?

I haven't seen anything indicating that. If it is out there, please provide. Shouldn't be hard.

Or to put this another way..

FSU: Hi ESPN, we are selling you our TV rights until 2036.
ESPN: Great news. We will pay you $30M per year for that.
FSU: Agreed.
FSU: We changed our mind we want to go play in the B1G.
ESPN: Well we still own your TV rights so if you want to resell them you need to buy them back.
FSU: We cannot afford that. You can keep them but you still owe us that $30M a year.

if the acc/espn have there rights then fsu cant collect any home tv money from a new conference until after 2036 thus they forfeit that part

 

[Sherman20]

It doesn't matter it would have solidified the ACC as the 3rd power conference. Now, be it this year, 2029, or 2036, the B12 will be the 3rd power conference as they will raid what is left over of the ACC.

The ACC did drop the ball but I don’t think what you’re saying is a foregone conclusion in any way.

 

[CuseIsGodsTeam]

That has absolutely nothing to do with the big picture unless FSU is denied and stuck until 2036. That will at least give us a decade to make ourselves more attractive. Without an AAU accreditation we aren't getting the B10 invite. We certainly aren't getting an SEC invite. That leaves the B12 as our only life long, not if, but when the ACC eventually implodes.

If college football morphs into two conferences the AAU accreditation factor will be of even less significance than it already is for the Big 10. I’m hoping it just stays at the P4, but even if it goes to 3, then we’ll go to the big 12.

Right now UNC averages about 700K more TV viewers than Syracuse and that’s with UNC coming off an ACC title appearance, and having an NFL QB.

“””EDIT: I stand corrected, further along this thread someone posted a source showing Syracuse with higher ratings than UNC”””

What will those ratings look like if Syracuse becomes a 9+ win program with stellar players on our squad?

We have too much history, too much sports media influence, and too much forward investment in this program to be an afterthought.

 

[baggerbob]

I emphatically beg to differ, If we are successful, esp in football we have a huge following in the entire NE corridor. Sig higher than BC, Pitt Rutgers, and if successful on par certainly with PSU, WV for tv viewership. That is why we are investing so much in football. Last 15 years have hurt, however still have a big draw on TV. If the ACC were to implode, if we were strong in FB we would land there. We would bring in NYC to a much greater degree as well

Lastly, concerning FSU- Pony up, they will have to. Long time left on contract/GOR and once again, OU/UT/USC/UCLA all settled at the end of their contracts. No such discussion with FSU. Over a decade. I think they are in for a rude awakening. Important for other members to stay strong... so much

Every year when I went to the national bowling tounament, no matter where, there always were a lot of displaced New Yorkers.

 

[anomander]

The B12 will merge with remaining ACC schools that have value like us. You’re getting too caught up in labels and who will raid who. There will be haves and have nots - that’s it.

They will merge but there will be programs left out. I'm not making this up. Right now the consensus is Syracuse, BC, and WF will be on the outside looking in. I think Syracuse, especially if we can get things turned around in football and hoops, can have a good argument since we have a trophy game with WVU, and have played Pitt for years. We also are in the middle of the pack as far as TV ratings in the ACC from 2014-2022, but that's still not changing the overall consensus every where that you read that SU, BC, and WF are currently on the outside looking in.

I've said it plenty of times but our national perception is less than a joke, we aren't even a joke, but an afterthought. 20+ years of complete ineptitude does that. Once upon a time a shiny basketball brand could have saved us but that is gone as well. It's an uphill battle for us.

 

[anomander]

If college football morphs into two conferences the AAU accreditation factor will be of even less significance than it already is for the Big 10. I’m hoping it just stays at the P4, but even if it goes to 3, then we’ll go to the big 12.

Right now UNC averages about 700K more TV viewers than Syracuse and that’s with UNC coming off an ACC title appearance, and having an NFL QB.

What will those ratings look like if Syracuse becomes a 9+ win program with stellar players on our squad?

We have too much history, too much sports media influence, and too much forward investment in this program to be an afterthought.

Like I said i'm not making this up. Any place you look, and I believe some people do have information all state the same thing. Take some time over the next week and take a look for yourself. If you're still confident after that then let me know.

 

[Scotch]

Like I said i'm not making this up. Any place you look, and I believe some people do have information all state the same thing. Take some time over the next week and take a look for yourself. If you're still confident after that then let me know.

Why don’t you post what you’re talking about. Reddit threads? Message boards?

 

[orlandoorange]

RU had value during the one decade where cable subscribers in states mattered for conference networks. We are already past that and it was a really shortsighted decision by Delaney.

RU never had and never will have value outside of it's location.

 

[dasher]

If the schools in question cannot deliver large numbers of TV viewers from that market, then the league being in these markets has no meaning. UGA dwarfs GT in Atlanta. In sports terms within the market, BC is nothing compared all Boston Pro sports. In fact BC football is not even bigger than the Harvard-Yale game. Syracuse cannot hope to deliver enough of the NYC TV market to help the ACC. Pitt is better in its market than BC is, but that aint saying much.

Wake Forest is a distant #3 in Winston-Salem, which means Wake brings literally 0 (ZERO). Miami draws decent TV numbers outside Miami only the the Canes are an 11-1 type team.

What the BT and SEC have always known is that state flagship and/or land grant schools have much better odds of attracting and maintaining large and passionate fam bases than other types of schools. And that is even more true in football than in basketball. The ACC now has 2 flagships (UNC, UVA), 3 land grants (NCSU, VT, and Clemson), and 1 half-claimed, barely recognized co-flagship (FSU).

Even though WV is small, WVU would be better for the ACC than BC or Wake.

You are talking about today. Get back to me if Brown continues to recruit like this and we start winning like we did between 1987 and 2002. Tell me what the tv viewership will look like in NY then?

 

[longtimefan]

UNC had African and African American Studies Department offer Independent Study classes. AS anybody aware of all matters related to such anywhere, they were going to be sham, because they were all about racial identity politics, hence they were about cheerleading. The dept. executive secretary designed them specifically to help women students (she had been a UNC student and struggled mightily) and non-white male students to help their GPAs a bit. She acknowledged that when the university finally decided it must endure all the racist charges and clean up the mess.

It was never about sports. Debi Crowder actually disliked most sports and especially disliked football. She did admire Dean Smith and so she actively wooed the women's basketball players to the classes. Per capita they were the group that had the highest usage. To Matt Doherty's humor (and he was the only person officially questioned who was brave enough to acknowledge knowing this for the record) the second highest per capita usage was by black fraternities.

The department chair had all the Independent Study students each semester registered to him. It is possible that other professors knew little of what was happening. However, there had been a Daily Tar Heel article about very high grade inflation in the AFAM department that appeared about 2 years before the whole mess was exposed. AFAM grades were far and way the highest of any depatrment at UNC for more than a decade straight - again, obvious racial political stuff, which made it tough for most academics to want to even suggest it perhaps could happen.

This doesn't explain how Julius Peppers was eligible to participate in two sports for multiple seasons. (And yes, I know that public exposure of his transcript was a gross violation of his privacy.)

 

[rocklloyd]

Winning solves everything