FSU vs The ACC

[Bayside44]

Ah, not a chance!

You are talking about an institution that consistently lacked any degree of foresight, etc. Where its powers that be consistently rolled in negligent fashion relative to taking care of its own house, let alone something considerably broader in scope. An AD at the time stating that due to the Dome, its uses, etc., could never do field turf and so stuck with dated astroturf. An administration well into the 2010's saying 'someday' on an IPF, when it already (at that time) a day late and dollar short. The infamous cringe worthy locker room scene after a big upset win early in Dino's tenure...to name just a few.

SU didn't jump to the ACC in that timeframe when there was a rumored offer.

 

[tep624]

Scheduling would be a nightmare

You could also structure it where you have regional quadrants as well as part of each of the 4 divisions if travel is a concern.

The EPL does this every single year and the scheduling doesn't seem to be a nightmare for them. The system needs a full restructure regardless.

 

[tep624]

Ah, not a chance!

You are talking about an institution that consistently lacked any degree of foresight, etc. Where its powers that be consistently rolled in negligent fashion relative to taking care of its own house, let alone something considerably broader in scope. An AD at the time stating that due to the Dome, its uses, etc., could never do field turf and so stuck with dated astroturf. An administration well into the 2010's saying 'someday' on an IPF, when it already (at that time) a day late and dollar short. The infamous cringe worthy locker room scene after a big upset win early in Dino's tenure...to name just a few.

Exactly, you can't judge Syracuse based on what the Admin didn't do in the 80's or 90's - we weren't going anywhere even if offered. Heads were firmly entrenched in the sand.

 

[WoadBlue]

There's your mistake right in the first sentence. Everyone will not be given a chance to be in it, either voluntarily because they choose for one reason or another not to be in it or involuntarily because the bluebloods want all the money for themselves.

In all your projected scenarios you keep trying to come up with ways to get everyone in the picture when that just isn't going to happen.

CORRECT!

No way in Hell that Ohio St and Michigan are going to allow a system that means any of their old BT members get demoted down into the MAC while MAC teams get upgraded into the BT.

No way Tennessee is going to approve relegation that can mean Vandy gets moved down while Memphis gets moved up and then becomes Tennessee's in-state league rival.

 

[TheCusian]

CORRECT!

No way in Hell that Ohio St and Michigan are going to allow a system that means any of their old BT members get demoted down into the MAC while MAC teams get upgraded into the BT.

No way Tennessee is going to approve relegation that can mean Vandy gets moved down while Memphis gets moved up and then becomes Tennessee's in-state league rival.

When the sport is run by the top teams and not a strong governing body, all kinds of things will go wrong before it dies.

This doesn’t mean the ideas to create more parity are wrong. It’s just another sign that the sport is in trouble.

 

[sutomcat]

Update on the ACC Clemson lawsuit...

ACC and Clemson fight over court venue. Is there a 'home court advantage?'

As Clemson attempts to break from the ACC, it wants to argue in front of a Pickens County judge. But does the university really have an edge in South Carolina?

www.postandcourier.com

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[tep624]

Can someone please explain this sudden fascination among U.S. sports fans with the absolutely foreign (and inane IMO) concept of relegation? For over well 90% of the teams in the relegation/advancement zones it's a year to move up and then back to whence you came.

Well because the concept of conferences and bowls now are both antiquated, for starters, and a relegation system addresses a lot of the issues around investing vs non-investing programs, access and fairness. If everything is primarily based around monetary value, brand, and performance when it comes to CFB now, then non-contributing programs shouldn’t get a pass.

 

[tep624]

it would also mean teams would have no idea year to year who they play. you would probably have to go to an all league schedule with no OC type games, This isnt soccer with 40-50 game seasons. Would soccer relegation work with 10-12 game schedules either?

Again - if it’s 30 team quadrants and teams move up and down in the same number, then they just assume the schedule of the team they replaced. Or something along those lines.

All of that stuff can be figured out. But the way the system is headed as it sits right now is not sustainable long term - that’s glaringly clear.

 

[TheCusian]

Can someone please explain this sudden fascination among U.S. sports fans with the absolutely foreign (and inane IMO) concept of relegation? For over well 90% of the teams in the relegation/advancement zones it's a year to move up and then back to whence you came.

Sure. I'll try.

1. In a sport where 2-3 losses means you're out of the running for the main prize, it adds value to the bottom half of the "table" or conference games, while also adding value to the top half of the lesser conference. (Who will stay up, who will jump up, and who will go down). In a sport desperate for meaning, this would help draw eyeballs and increase TV revenue across the board, even for teams without great brands. (Think a late season 4 win Pitt vs 4 win UVA game with a chance at being relegated out of the ACC for App State or something. I'd be interested in watching vs how it is normally: hard pass.)

2. CFB loves the "there's a path for everyone" veneer. If it becomes too tilted to the new P2, you're cutting out too many localized fan bases in areas of the country where the sport could thrive. In soccer, the lifeblood of the sport is localized and the hope, while ever so slim, that a small club could rise the very top is exciting to those communities.

3. Given our new NIL and transfer realities, a team that gets promoted would have a fanbase with reason to hope, and could invest accordingly. That would drive interest as we have seen here in Syracuse w Fran's arrival. Staying up could be easier with in influx of money and talent. This would drive interest in the sport in the offseason for more teams.

4. It rewards good coaching, good systems, admin and great iconic players. If you're a top tier QB at a lower school and you battle into promotion, the chances of you staying (with increased NIL opportunities, big boy conference $ to retain your staff, etc) increases. A top tier coach wouldn't have to leave a G5 school for a P5 gig if their efforts we rewarded by their program being a P5 team suddenly.)

There are things to work out, obviously. But I don't get the reservations, aside from a perceived snobbiness towards soccer and Europe.

 

[TheCusian]

CORRECT!

No way in Hell that Ohio St and Michigan are going to allow a system that means any of their old BT members get demoted down into the MAC while MAC teams get upgraded into the BT.

No way Tennessee is going to approve relegation that can mean Vandy gets moved down while Memphis gets moved up and then becomes Tennessee's in-state league rival.

This isn't a valid criticism of the idea of promotion/relegation its shining a light on how dumb the current "no one is running the sport" status quo is

 

[longtimefan]

You could also structure it where you have regional quadrants as well as part of each of the 4 divisions if travel is a concern.

The EPL does this every single year and the scheduling doesn't seem to be a nightmare for them. The system needs a full restructure regardless.

Compare the geography of the UK vs the continental US.

 

[tep624]

Compare the geography of the UK vs the continental US.

Have you looked at the Geography of the Big 10, ACC or Big 12 right now?

The geographic argument is already a thing of the past.

 

[tep624]

Just so we can put the geographic argument to bed:

It's already happening.

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[elimunelson]

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Can someone explain why fsu and Clemson would make a lateral move

 

[longtimefan]

Have you looked at the Geography of the Big 10, ACC or Big 12 right now?

The geographic argument is already a thing of the past.

But, there is no relegation in place. Imagine if an East Coast team and a West Coast team switched places.

 

[tep624]

But, there is no relegation in place. Imagine if an East Coast team and a West Coast team switched places.

It wouldn't really matter in the sense that with 30 teams per quadrant, you can still set up divisions within the quadrants that are more regional in nature. It's more so driven for fairness and parity amongst teams with like minded levels of investment in their programs.

 

[sutomcat]

x.com

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Can someone explain why fsu and Clemson would make a lateral move

They would have to pay 300-700 million for a chance to make less money and have to travel far more. Lose all their traditional rivals so they could have a chance to play schools like Texas Tech and Iowa State.

Even FSU isn’t that dumb.

 

[SURules]

They would have to pay 300-700 million for a chance to make less money and have to travel far more. Lose all their traditional rivals so they could have a chance to play schools like Texas Tech and Iowa State.

Even FSU isn’t that dumb.

Never say never as FSU is like Rutgers only with success in sports but you are right it would take some major stupidity for them to move to the Big12.

I’m not sure the Big12 even takes them with unequal shares to specific schools rather than performance based incentives. That is the death of any conference.

 

[CU44SE]

They would have to pay 300-700 million for a chance to make less money and have to travel far more. Lose all their traditional rivals so they could have a chance to play schools like Texas Tech and Iowa State.

Even FSU isn’t that dumb.

Pay that much to leave, to end up in a conference that gets a smaller payout than the current ACC.

Unless the Big 12 offered them an incredible pay structure where everyone else in the league would take a 10 million dollar pay cut; and even then it wouldn’t make sense with all the exit fees and the GOR.

It really is something how much the Big 12 gets these internet trolls going. They even say they are Big 10 informants now so people take them more seriously.

 

[richmondcuse03]

Can someone please explain this sudden fascination among U.S. sports fans with the absolutely foreign (and inane IMO) concept of relegation? For over well 90% of the teams in the relegation/advancement zones it's a year to move up and then back to whence you came.

I blame Ted Lasso. Seriously.

 

[elimunelson]

They would have to pay 300-700 million for a chance to make less money and have to travel far more. Lose all their traditional rivals so they could have a chance to play schools like Texas Tech and Iowa State.

Even FSU isn’t that dumb.

I get the sense that the ACC is ready for any tortious interference to drag another conference into this. Perhaps that is small potato’s vs the exit fees alone but the ACC would be well served threatening the big 2 conferences into a discovery

 

[Hoo's That]

It wouldn't really matter in the sense that with 30 teams per quadrant, you can still set up divisions within the quadrants that are more regional in nature. It's more so driven for fairness and parity amongst teams with like minded levels of investment in their programs.

Again, the basic mistake you and Otto IV are making is to include everyone. When the big change occurs, the bluebloods are going to go off by themselves and leave the rest behind. It will probably come in the form of completely breaking away from the NCAA and not requiring class attendance to play. That is an absolute non-starter to most schools. Plus, a goodly portion of the schools that choose to remain in the NCAA will refuse to play the bluebloods who leave, so schedules won't be padded anymore. Which Week 10 game would you prefer to watch, 3-6 Ohio State v. 2-7 Texas or 9-0 Georgia Tech v. 8-1 Tulane? How would the TV contracts work? One master contract with Fox and Disney/ESPN? Now, you're running up against the Antitrust Act and need the Congressional exemption the pros have. Will they give it?

Promotion and relegation is the stupidest concept in sports. You get to play against the super teams for a year and then go back to playing the teams you usually play. How does that make any sense? You get to see the superstars live once and then you're back down and hoping for that one-year shot again. Most of the yo-yo teams don't have the wherewithal to invest in an attempt to stay with the big guns. And, unless you get a Hollywood personality to buy your team as personal plaything you can only hope to keep yo-yoing each year.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Again, the basic mistake you and Otto IV are making is to include everyone. When the big change occurs, the bluebloods are going to go off by themselves and leave the rest behind. It will probably come in the form of completely breaking away from the NCAA and not requiring class attendance to play. That is an absolute non-starter to most schools. Plus, a goodly portion of the schools that choose to remain in the NCAA will refuse to play the bluebloods who leave, so schedules won't be padded anymore. Which Week 10 game would you prefer to watch, 3-6 Ohio State v. 2-7 Texas or 9-0 Georgia Tech v. 8-1 Tulane? How would the TV contracts work? One master contract with Fox and Disney/ESPN? Now, you're running up against the Antitrust Act and need the Congressional exemption the pros have. Will they give it?

Promotion and relegation is the stupidest concept in sports. You get to play against the super teams for a year and then go back to playing the teams you usually play. How does that make any sense? You get to see the superstars live once and then you're back down and hoping for that one-year shot again. Most of the yo-yo teams don't have the wherewithal to invest in an attempt to stay with the big guns. And, unless you get a Hollywood personality to buy your team as personal plaything you can only hope to keep yo-yoing each year.

You answer your own questions. The poor record issue and the anti trust issue both go away with access for all.

The big boys in a closed 40 team system will make the same money in a 40 team open system. They just cut the fat of the mid level teams currently in their conference.

If anything it WiDENS the gap between the top schools and the mid schools. A team like Alabama will always be in the Top. A team like Ole Miss will not. Which makes it harder for Ole Miss to compete against Alabama vs a closed system.

The top schools won’t be sharing, the mids will.