FSU vs The ACC

[Cusefan0307]

I agree. I see no way that Cuse lands in the SEC or the Big Ten. I think we’ll be in some mixed ACC/Big 12 regional conference to look something like this.

ACC EAST
Boston College (MA)
UConn (CT)
Syracuse (NY)
Pittsburgh (PA)
West Virginia (WV)
Louisville (KY)
Virginia Tech (VA)
Duke (NC)
Wake Forest (NC)
Georgia Tech (GA)
Vanderbilt (TN)
Miami (FL)

Another poster who’s repeated the same drivel for half a decade. UConn ain’t going anywhere near the Big 12 or ACC no matter if you post it 100 times or 101 times.

 

[sufandu]

Yeah and like the BE HQ, proximity to the garden, major Northeast markets did not help the basketball side of things, this potentially could have been done in football, which would have required moving the conference out of NC, that was not done. I think it would have made a difference, especially several years ago. Can we say goodbye Maryland, maybe they just saw the writing on the wall lol. ACC conf=NC driven= Analogy to Penn State=Greed/Self/Me=Eventual implosion to anything good and held Sacred= Just a reflection of current Society= It does not matter How much?,stay true to your own heart, God's Grace will always win and do good, just make sure think of your neighbor.

Huh?

 

[WoadBlue]

We routinely see schedules where we get traditional powers or NC schools coming off of byes or their tune ups. We saw Clemson/FSU at times favorable to them.

NE fans aren’t dumb - we see the home cooking and bending towards southern schools. Being afraid of ticking them off when it would help NE in bigger markets grow the sport is *what I’m talking about*

ACC powers look at the SEC and tried to follow suit. Let’s take the most powerful school in the conference (in both sports lol) and put a finger on the scale.

Syracuse is to blame for much of its own issues (HC hires, admin mistakes, donor stuff etc) but I’ve always thought the goal of a conference should be to build up its members. Especially if they are in a rich media/population zone that is largely untapped.

(Ps you know your punter didn’t make it to yard to gain on that block lol)

Are you under the impression that Syracuse and maybe BC and Pitt are the only schools that make the same complaints about when certain games are scheduled and about officiating? If so, you are missing a whole library of complaints every season.

And you know what? From the vantage of the fan base making the complaints, most of them have some validity. But many of them lose much of that validity when you start factoring in all the things that would need to be changed to end that one issue for one fan base.

 

[WoadBlue]

Another poster who’s repeated the same drivel for half a decade. UConn ain’t going anywhere near the Big 12 or ACC no matter if you post it 100 times or 101 times.

Is there anyway possible fo UConn football not to be drag on the ACC? NO!

So if FSU and Clemson leave, the ACC must then replace them with schools that make sense for football. That means, schools that: (not in a definite order of most important down) have history with ACC schools in football; have a history making and winning bowls; have a history of filling their stadium; have close access to a large number of recruits; that are state land grant or flagship schools; large schools with lots of alums.

If that ACC can take from the Big 12, Utah, Arizona St and Arizona should top the list, with TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, WVU, Cincinnati, and UCF also worth a very long look. Also worth adding is USF.

Of the schools I've named, only TCU and Baylor are private, and they are located in football-obsessed, football talent RICH TX and have major history with SMU. The 3 former Pac schools and USF, all huge, are AAU schools. Cincinnati is overall the #2 state school in OH and #2 college for sports in OH, which produces a huge amount of talent in both revenue sports. The Backyard Brawl is a very hot rivalry and WVU also has meaningful history with Cuse and VT.

NO to even thinking about UConn or Temple.

 

[HouClone]

I think it’s ironclad personally speaking.

But if SU was invited our opinion of exiting the ACC would change significantly

SU: "FSU and Clemson are a bunch of traitors."

Leaks out Big 10 is going to offer SU.

SU: "ACC was never a fit for us and good riddance when we get out of it."

 

[TexanMark]

FSU and Clemson have clear paths to the playoffs each year in the ACC. In the SEC they can forget about it they might stand a chance in the Big 10. With the money that they make in the ACC and the bonus they would get if they made the playoffs, they have more than enough to complete for a championship every year. I must be missing something but the old saying don't ask for what you might get screams to me about these teams looking to leave. I just don't get it.

But...their fans will tire of road tripping to places colder than Syracuse. No Domes in the B1G.

FSU's closest B1G game will be IU (750 miles from Tallahassee) after Clemson. In fact you might as well add another 200 miles to any drive as most FSU fans reside south of Tallahassee.

 

[baggerbob]

But...their fans will tire of road tripping to places colder than Syracuse. No Domes in the B1G.

FSU's closest B1G game will be IU (750 miles from Tallahassee) after Clemson. In fact you might as well add another 200 miles to any drive as most FSU fans reside south of Tallahassee.

Actually the ACC was formed in 1953, original members, South Carolina, Clemson, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Duke, Wake Forest, and Maryland.
Should have been called what it is and was, the North Carolina Basketball Conference.
South Carolina left early. It took Maryland 50+ Years and lefty a lot of complaining about bias. They got a life raft and left, now the last non North Carolina member wants to leave, in Clemson.
Hopefully Notre Dame, Pitt, BC, and Syracuse are having secret meetings with the Big to form an Eastern Division.
Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland, Pittsburgh,
Boston College, Syracuse, and Notre Dame. If Miami wants to join the eastern division that would make 8.

 

[sufandu]

Hopefully Notre Dame, Pitt, BC, and Syracuse are having secret meetings with the Big to form an Eastern Division.
Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland, Pittsburgh,
Boston College, Syracuse, and Notre Dame. If Miami wants to join the eastern division that would make 8.

I think that would be great if that happened, but I think it's more likely I hit the powerball and I haven't bought a ticket.

That would be some great regional legit football rivalry. Throw Rutgers out and steal WVU and it's just about perfect. I know that the old Big East basketball rivalries are dead and never coming back. And teams we love to hate in the ACC don't hate us enough to ever have any real rivalries there. So this would be a great consolation, if it ever had a chance.

 

[HouClone]

FSU and Clemson have clear paths to the playoffs each year in the ACC. In the SEC they can forget about it they might stand a chance in the Big 10. With the money that they make in the ACC and the bonus they would get if they made the playoffs, they have more than enough to complete for a championship every year. I must be missing something but the old saying don't ask for what you might get screams to me about these teams looking to leave. I just don't get it.

Good points but FSU and Clemson will counter that they have $30 million reasons for doing so.

 

[HtownOrange]

Good points but FSU and Clemson will counter that they have $30 million reasons for doing so.

The exit fee and rights buy back are roughly the equivalent of $50MM/year. How is a $30MM increase while losing $50MM a good deal? They will lose at least $20MM/year.

Then add in the ACCN increases and the losses only increase.

Fiscally speaking, it is better for FSU and Clemson to wait out the contracts and step away (USC and UCLA) or wait until they buy backs would be low enough to handle(UT and OU). As it stands, neither FSU nor Clemson can bargain in good faith as neither has sufficient funds to pay the exit fee nor buy back their rights. Further, neither has involved ESPN which has a major say in anything changing either the ACC or SEC.

Legally speaking, both have voted for the exit fee and the GOR. Both have enjoyed the fruits of the bargains for many years. They lack ground to make the pseudo arguments they are making now. Though they may get a home cooked court ruling, it is not likely to stand.

Thus, do they legitimately have $30MM reasons to leave early?

 

[kcsu]

The exit fee and rights buy back are roughly the equivalent of $50MM/year. How is a $30MM increase while losing $50MM a good deal? They will lose at least $20MM/year.

Then add in the ACCN increases and the losses only increase.

Fiscally speaking, it is better for FSU and Clemson to wait out the contracts and step away (USC and UCLA) or wait until they buy backs would be low enough to handle. As it stands, neither FSU nor Clemson can bargain in good faith as neither has sufficient funds to pay the exit fee nor buy back their rights. Further, neither has involved ESPN which has a major say in anything changing either the ACC or SEC.

Legally speaking, both have voted for the exit fee and the GOR. Both have enjoyed the fruits of the bargains for many years. They lack ground to make the pseudo arguments they are making now. Though they may get a home cooked court ruling, it is not likely to stand.

Thus, do they legitimately have $30MM reasons to leave early?

Stop making sense

 

[WoadBlue]

SU: "FSU and Clemson are a bunch of traitors."

Leaks out Big 10 is going to offer SU.

SU: "ACC was never a fit for us and good riddance when we get out of it."

I think if you add that understanding to the way baggerbob sees things you can get a handle on what we may call The Syracuse issue vis a vis the ACC. Those Ornagemen really seem to think that just because a bazillion people live in NYC that if only a league has teams from fairly nearby it would have a large TV audience - unless the league is failing to do what it should to make certain those teams near NYC are watched.

Quite simply, Syracuse needs to face facts, which begin with that fact that of all schools located in northeastern states only PSU has a decent sized passionate and loyal football fan base since the mid-1980s. That means that unless PSU is on the same league with Cuse, Pitt, and BC and eating them annually, that league is not going to be able to count on northeasterners to watch in any numbers that matter.

That simply is the way it is, and it is insane to think that can change. Of course, deep down those Cuse fans know that, which is the reason they dream of getting into an eastern BT with PSU.

 

[WoadBlue]

Actually the ACC was formed in 1953, original members, South Carolina, Clemson, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Duke, Wake Forest, and Maryland.
Should have been called what it is and was, the North Carolina Basketball Conference.
South Carolina left early. It took Maryland 50+ Years and lefty a lot of complaining about bias. They got a life raft and left, now the last non North Carolina member wants to leave, in Clemson.
Hopefully Notre Dame, Pitt, BC, and Syracuse are having secret meetings with the Big to form an Eastern Division.
Penn State, Rutgers, Maryland, Pittsburgh,
Boston College, Syracuse, and Notre Dame. If Miami wants to join the eastern division that would make 8.

UVA agreed to leave independance to join the 7 schools that had been in the SoCon to late to play in the first football season, but UVA was a charter member.

I'll bet you know absolutely nothing about SoCar leaving the ACC. Nor do you know that SoCar long had used its powers in SC state government to force Clemson to play football games vs SoCar in Columbia. The ACC putting a stop to that was SoCar's first furious hatred for the ACC.

The first fault of the ACC was indeed having 4 NC schools, rather than taking VPI (VT). The second great default was not in adding GT as soon as Bobby Dodd realized that independence was killing GT athletics, which was 1969. VT rather than Wake and then GT as #9 would have meant at last half the SoCar wild eyed complaints would have never amounted to anything, which means SoCar would not have left. With SoCar still in the ACC and GT added a decade earlier, FSU also would have been added at least a half decayed before it was added. That 10 team ACC could have wooed PSU. And then all college athletics would have been different.

What you will not get at all is that Wake was added because it also was founded in what we today call the Research Triangle: the town of Wake Forest is in Wake County, just like Raleigh. Wake in the ACC was local schools taking care of each other.

You really think the BT is ever going to sniff BC? Or Pitt? Or Syracuse? Well, it might take 1 of that trio if, and only if, ND demands it to join and PSU agrees.

 

[WoadBlue]

I think that would be great if that happened, but I think it's more likely I hit the powerball and I haven't bought a ticket.

That would be some great regional legit football rivalry. Throw Rutgers out and steal WVU and it's just about perfect. I know that the old Big East basketball rivalries are dead and never coming back. And teams we love to hate in the ACC don't hate us enough to ever have any real rivalries there. So this would be a great consolation, if it ever had a chance.

It never did and never will. The northeast simply was not able to support a Major conference for football all the way back to dawn of the 1960s. The best that 'eastern' football could have done was to have its bigger, more important programs all in one conference which was formed out of either the South or midwest.

That means that the best you could get today would be PSU and WVU added to the ACC. But JoePa made certain that could never happen when he refused to look at the ACC while begging the BT to take PSU.

 

[cuse62]

If there is not enough people watching football in the northeast, why did the big whatever they call it now, take Rutgers? It certainly wasn’t because they sellout their stadium. It certainly not because their great fan base. It certainly not because of their athletic history. I wonder what it could be…..

 

[Crv1983]

I’m curious why there are so many comments on this topic that appear to criticize the ACC leadership for not adequately supporting Syracuse athletics. I can understand and agree that the ACC leadership teams have failed in many areas to effectively manage the conference over the past 10 years. That said, not providing Syracuse with a path to success isn’t one of them. The ACC threw Syracuse and Pitt a lifeline back in 2011. Syracuse BB was a great product and the hope was the football program would improve given the additional exposure and revenue. Outside of 2013, the basketball program has been a middle of the road conference team that has done very little to consistently enhance the leagues stature. Football has not progressed either. My comments are not critical of the program only that the ACC gave both Syracuse and Pitt an opportunity that neither program has consistently taken advantage of. If they had, AND Va Tech and Miami returned to their previous level of success, no one would talking about leaving the league.

 

[elimunelson]

I’m curious why there are so many comments on this topic that appear to criticize the ACC leadership for not adequately supporting Syracuse athletics. I can understand and agree that the ACC leadership teams have failed in many areas to effectively manage the conference over the past 10 years. That said, not providing Syracuse with a path to success isn’t one of them. The ACC threw Syracuse and Pitt a lifeline back in 2011. Syracuse BB was a great product and the hope was the football program would improve given the additional exposure and revenue. Outside of 2013, the basketball program has been a middle of the road conference team that has done very little to consistently enhance the leagues stature. Football has not progressed either. My comments are not critical of the program only that the ACC gave both Syracuse and Pitt an opportunity that neither program has consistently taken advantage of. If they had, AND Va Tech and Miami returned to their previous level of success, no one would talking about leaving the league.

yeah i don't blame the ACC 1% for anything that's occurred. The only hot tub time machine changes that MAY have changed the trajectory of things is if they could have gotten Penn St to come aboard or to get ND in as a full member. Neither is realistic mind you.

ACC gave Syracuse a home and a nice paycheck. Syracuse has done nothing since Pasqualoni to show sustained juice in football. That's about to change though.

 

[DoctorBombay]

SU: "FSU and Clemson are a bunch of traitors."

Leaks out Big 10 is going to offer SU.

SU: "ACC was never a fit for us and good riddance when we get out of it."

Soooo...what's your point?

 

[TheCusian]

Are you under the impression that Syracuse and maybe BC and Pitt are the only schools that make the same complaints about when certain games are scheduled and about officiating? If so, you are missing a whole library of complaints every season.

And you know what? From the vantage of the fan base making the complaints, most of them have some validity. But many of them lose much of that validity when you start factoring in all the things that would need to be changed to end that one issue for one fan base.

“Yeah, there are more southern schools and more NC schools so sorry it’s unfair” is the common reply. My point is that’s myopic. Helping the schools in the NE that have a lot of people and not a lot of CFB teams seems like low hanging fruit.

A true partnership would mean countering the southern/NC advantages and allowing the NE teams to gain a better foothold so we can see what’s what w a NE fan base when the team is actually good and relevant

 

[TheCusian]

I’m curious why there are so many comments on this topic that appear to criticize the ACC leadership for not adequately supporting Syracuse athletics. I can understand and agree that the ACC leadership teams have failed in many areas to effectively manage the conference over the past 10 years. That said, not providing Syracuse with a path to success isn’t one of them. The ACC threw Syracuse and Pitt a lifeline back in 2011. Syracuse BB was a great product and the hope was the football program would improve given the additional exposure and revenue. Outside of 2013, the basketball program has been a middle of the road conference team that has done very little to consistently enhance the leagues stature. Football has not progressed either. My comments are not critical of the program only that the ACC gave both Syracuse and Pitt an opportunity that neither program has consistently taken advantage of. If they had, AND Va Tech and Miami returned to their previous level of success, no one would talking about leaving the league.

That’s the “everyone is in competition” mentality. Anytime you hear “gave them a lifeline” that’s code for “we can crap on you”… it’s dumb and it hasn’t worked

 

[HtownOrange]

It may be well for all to remember that the ACCN was a new enterprise based on each ACC team joining the pact. SU, BC and Pitt brought along three important states. FSU and Miami brought FL. Clemson-SC, GATech-GA, etc., etc., etc. There was no life line as many would like to believe. It was all for one when all were in a weakend state.

How soon we all forget from when e we came.

SU was already vetted for B1G membership (as was Pitt) but they dragged their feet. The result was in their knee jerk reaction of taking Rutgers that added no value beyond an in-conference body bag game for the Big boys, which still holds true to date.

 

[HouClone]

Soooo...what's your point?

Not really any point I guess. Just pointing out that if SU has a spot or is in a good position but not finalized to be in the Big 10 or SEC, like likely FSU and Clemson appear to have through back channels, commentary on this board would be mostly negative to the ACC, like FSU is doing now. I don't think it is right and hope SU wouldn't do it but that is human nature.

 

[Cusester]

Woad used to be a good poster on this board but lately he seems to feel that it is his job to remind us, over and over again, how screwed we are. Everyone on this board knows how dire our situation is in collegiate athletics. So what do you get out of reminding us of that? Oh, and one more thing. Please proof read your posts before hitting send. Thank you.

 

[Crv1983]

It may be well for all to remember that the ACCN was a new enterprise based on each ACC team joining the pact. SU, BC and Pitt brought along three important states. FSU and Miami brought FL. Clemson-SC, GATech-GA, etc., etc., etc. There was no life line as many would like to believe. It was all for one when all were in a weakend state.

How soon we all forget from when e we came.

SU was already vetted for B1G membership (as was Pitt) but they dragged their feet. The result was in their knee jerk reaction of taking Rutgers that added no value beyond an in-conference body bag game for the Big boys, which still holds true to date.

Again, the question in play is how has the ACC impeded Syracuse FB and BB from being more successful. First I have ever heard or seen that Syracuse had a actionable invite from the BIG10 as an option vs the ACC in 2011. So that would seem to indicate that either Syracuse chose the ACC over the BIG or that the BIG‘s lost interest and pulled their invite. If the latter, then the ACC’s offer was the only avenue for Syracuse and in fact was a lifeline. As we all know, the Big East was not going to continue as a power conference football league. Lastly I am guessing here but generating college football subscribers in New England is probably not the reason the ACC invited BC.

 

[HtownOrange]

Again, the question in play is how has the ACC impeded Syracuse FB and BB from being more successful. First I have ever heard or seen that Syracuse had a actionable invite from the BIG10 as an option vs the ACC in 2011. So that would seem to indicate that either Syracuse chose the ACC over the BIG or that the BIG‘s lost interest and pulled their invite. If the latter, then the ACC’s offer was the only avenue for Syracuse and in fact was a lifeline. As we all know, the Big East was not going to continue as a power conference football league. Lastly I am guessing here but generating college football subscribers in New England is probably not the reason the ACC invited BC.

No, there was no question I responded to, thus no question to be answered. I made a general comment, nothing more. Please do not read more or less into my comments.

I am not sure how you jump from a vetted team to an actionable invite, but don't let facts get in the way of a straw argument.

You are free to view the ACC move as a lifeline, I don't. There was no ACCN on the table at that time, only membership in the ACC. SU could have chosen to let the B1G option play out. Maybe it had but the B1G's knee jerk reaction to rush to take Rutgers indicates otherwise. Regardless, SU could have stayed in the Big East.

Maybe you don't like those choices, but they remain choices, nonetheless. To me, a lifeline is the not a choice between options of varying degrees but rather the option of life (continue football) or death (drop football). Many on here would be happy to drop to FCS or D2 rather than be sucked into the spending wars of modern CFB. They obviously don't see the ACC invite as a lifeline.

As to your BC comment, there is no response. BC was already a member of the ACC when SU joined. I don't recall the ACC's actual motivation for inviting BC. Perhaps to give the ACC the 12th team to hold a Championship game? I am too lazy this morning to research the matter as it has no bearing on my original comment.