FSU vs The ACC | Page 89 | Syracusefan.com

FSU vs The ACC

If that's the case why are we constantly arguing about the impact of this tiny catholic school in central Indiana that really is going to be a lowgrade UCF by 2040?
Because some people here are unhinged when it comes to ND.

Their POV is (a) ND is soooo valuable that if we get them to join the ACC for football it'd be super-duper-alley-ooper awesome and the conference would be set for life; and (b) if they don't then they totally suck and we should kick them out because they're a worthless program.

It makes perfect sense... if you have a concussion.
 
They won't because they don't need to.

And we've already noted that your analogy doesn't work. ;)
Yeah, scooch. I know they won’t. The point was equating the two situations and labeling them both “selfish” is silly. One team by definition is sharing in a mutually beneficial relationship while the other is not because they don’t need to.

Was having fun w the analogy, but maybe you’re opposed such things
 
ND has no incentive to tie the knot. They are in the cat bird seat.
Yeah, of course.

(If they did decide to throw in with the ACC, they would be seen as selfless. It would be good for the sport and help save the sport from itself. But they won’t because they are in it for themselves - which is of course, by definition: selfish)
 
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We didn't sign a contract with Carrier. Carrier didn't sign a naming rights deal. They donated money and got their name on the building, the same way the Newhouse family did and got their name on the Communications school.

SU didn't break a contract with Carrier. Rather, they approached Carrier about relinquishing the benefit that came with their donation. Carrier agreed.

SU now has a contract with JMA Wireless.

It's literally and legally not the same thing.
Fair enough. My misunderstanding. I thought the donation created a lifetime naming deal that the school had to negotiate out of.

Regardless, that doesn't make FSU or Clemson responsible to carry the ACC.

And it doesent stop the ACC deal from being a horrible deal.
 
To be fair to ND, there’s a lot of greedy selfishness ruining the sport and a lot of ppl to blame. I’m actually much harsher on Clemson and FSU for signing onto an agreement that says “we’re in this together, y’all!” and then actively poking the rest of the schools in the eye.
 
Fair enough. My misunderstanding. I thought the donation created a lifetime naming deal that the school had to negotiate out of.

Regardless, that doesn't make FSU or Clemson responsible to carry the ACC.

And it doesent stop the ACC deal from being a horrible deal.
Yeah, that article is wrong. It was actually a stupid thing for SU to do at the time. Actual naming rights deals had been done for nearly 10 years before the Dome was built (Schaefer Stadium, anyone?). They never should have accepted a donation and slapped the name on the building. Of course I'm not surprised there was no one with any sports business savvy at SU then.

I'll just reiterate that it's not a "horrible" deal. It's a deal that isn't valued as much as the SEC or B1G.

Does anyone think the ACC would get SEC or B1G money if their rights were on the open market right now? I'll answer that... there's no chance in hell. And part of why is because the conference isn't nearly as good at football. And part of that reason why is because FSU took a 5 year hiatus from being really good at football. It's all intertwined.

But whatever. FSU is welcome to burn a sh!tton of money in legal fees. Good luck with that.
 
Yeah, that article is wrong. It was actually a stupid thing for SU to do at the time. Actual naming rights deals had been done for nearly 10 years before the Dome was built (Schaefer Stadium, anyone?). They never should have accepted a donation and slapped the name on the building. Of course I'm not surprised there was no one with any sports business savvy at SU then.

I'll just reiterate that it's not a "horrible" deal. It's a deal that isn't valued as much as the SEC or B1G.

Does anyone think the ACC would get SEC or B1G money if their rights were on the open market right now? I'll answer that... there's no chance in hell. And part of why is because the conference isn't nearly as good at football. And part of that reason why is because FSU took a 5 year hiatus from being really good at football. It's all intertwined.

But whatever. FSU is welcome to burn a sh!tton of money in legal fees. Good luck with that.
So you're saying SU didn't have to negotiate and buy itself out of the donation provided by Carrier to change the name of the dome?

Your point on the acc being down because of one or two schools is silly.

Each league are effectively content creators and each team/school is responsible for it's content. No one gives a rats butt about where the content comes from, it just has to be good or close enough to good that it can be hyped as such, aka winning. Most of the schools in the league, including and especially SU, produce terrible content.

Any league that makes a 20 year commitment without the ability to reopen, particularly in today's environment and knowing that competitors will renogotiate during that time, is making a horrible deal whether you want to admit to it or not.

If it wasn't horrible, schools would be rushing to get into the league. They're not, as a result we get table scraps.

The strong get stronger, the weak get weaker, and the schools that produce don't want to associate with the laggards.

This has been a fun back and forth, unfortunately I have work to do so you can have the last word on this one if you choose.
 
So you're saying SU didn't have to negotiate and buy itself out of the donation provided by Carrier to change the name of the dome?

Your point on the acc being down because of one or two schools is silly.

Each league are effectively content creators and each team/school is responsible for it's content. No one gives a rats butt about where the content comes from, it just has to be good or close enough to good that it can be hyped as such, aka winning. Most of the schools in the league, including and especially SU, produce terrible content.

Any league that makes a 20 year commitment without the ability to reopen, particularly in today's environment and knowing that competitors will renogotiate during that time, is making a horrible deal whether you want to admit to it or not.

If it wasn't horrible, schools would be rushing to get into the league. They're not, as a result we get table scraps.

The strong get stronger, the weak get weaker, and the schools that produce don't want to associate with the laggards.

This has been a fun back and forth, unfortunately I have work to do so you can have the last word on this one if you choose.

I don't think Scooch is saying FSU 1993 and 1999 would make the contracts equal.

ACC relies on FSU to be wicked awesome. They were hoping they got Miami and early ACC Vtech to be the 3 amigos. If anyone is to blame it's Miami. They have been awful since joining the ACC vs their historical relevance in the Big East. Which should be something FSU and Clemson should look at if they extracted themselves into the BIG/SEC. Of course it's all money and no one cares about the performance if the checks are guaranteed.


Clemson ironically became a second banana thankfully. The BIG will ALWAYS have these gigantic land grant schools (similar to the SEC) with their oodles of grads. We are going to constantly swim upstream vs them content wise and valuation wise. But being third isn't bad and having a contract tied up being third is not bad for SU and most of the ACC at this point.

Anyway, be thankful for ND, Swofford, ESPN and the ACCN, Crouthamel (for actually building the Big East and making SU Football great in the 80s hiring Mac), McNabb, Miami going on probation in/around 1995, and the Dome Ranger (why not)
 
I don't think Scooch is saying FSU 1993 and 1999 would make the contracts equal.

ACC relies on FSU to be wicked awesome. They were hoping they got Miami and early ACC Vtech to be the 3 amigos. If anyone is to blame it's Miami. They have been awful since joining the ACC vs their historical relevance in the Big East. Which should be something FSU and Clemson should look at if they extracted themselves into the BIG/SEC. Of course it's all money and no one cares about the performance if the checks are guaranteed.


Clemson ironically became a second banana thankfully. The BIG will ALWAYS have these gigantic land grant schools (similar to the SEC) with their oodles of grads. We are going to constantly swim upstream vs them content wise and valuation wise. But being third isn't bad and having a contract tied up being third is not bad for SU and most of the ACC at this point.

Anyway, be thankful for ND, Swofford, ESPN and the ACCN, Crouthamel (for actually building the Big East and making SU Football great in the 80s hiring Mac), McNabb, Miami going on probation in/around 1995, and the Dome Ranger (why not)
Being 3rd becomes BAD as soon as it means being comparable in terms of money and recent football success to the AAC.

Most do not want to face simple facts about CFB. SoCar can go 5 straight years with a losing team and still expect to average more than 70K per game the next year.

Most ACC people grab thew same thing about basketball: for a league to be really sound, it must have teams that have such passionately loyal fans that they still buy tickets and watch even when their teams lose and lose and lose.

That always has been true of ACC basketball. It is not true of ACC football. It never was, and the formation do the ACC made it thus. 6 schools in the SoCon were a given and necessary for the new league to even start: Dook, UNC, NCSU, SoCar, Clemson, and Maryland. That sextet all agreed they wanted to get independent UVA. They also quickly rejected WVU because, they later said in public, <MMorgantown was too far away from most off the other schools and had no airport for planes larger than maybe 10 seats and had bad roads all round. They rejected VPI because none of the 6 campaigned hard for VPI and some UVA people said they would oppose UVA joining if VPI got in. And so Wake got in, even though the crisis that had led to the formation of a new league came because the 'small' schools in the SoCon had voted to band SoCon teams from going to bowls.

Wake made no sense except for basketball. So the ACC cursed itself from its birth. With UNC, Dook, and NCSU, there was less than 0 need to have another 'basketball power' in the state of NC.

UVA took no interest in promoting its sports back then, especially football. That led almost all top players from VA to leave the state, at least half of those going outside the ACC. That hurt ACC football talent levels and also meant that no radio or TV audience for ACC football developed in VA - until UVA hired George Welch. If VPI hd been in the early ACC, none of that would have happened. If WVU also had been in, the ACC radio network would have stretched to Pittsburgh, which then was a MAJOR hotbed area of HS football talent and a center of radio broadcasting of college sports, especially football.

Bad decisions in terms of football just kept being made. Time after time. And now either the ACC uses these next couple of years to smatly plan a new future, or else it will become a minor conference. It must somehow add larger state schools and schools located in areas with lots of talent. It must make certain that its teams that win Big and also teams that draw Big TV numbers get paid well.
 
So you're saying SU didn't have to negotiate and buy itself out of the donation provided by Carrier to change the name of the dome?

Your point on the acc being down because of one or two schools is silly.

Each league are effectively content creators and each team/school is responsible for it's content. No one gives a rats butt about where the content comes from, it just has to be good or close enough to good that it can be hyped as such, aka winning. Most of the schools in the league, including and especially SU, produce terrible content.

Any league that makes a 20 year commitment without the ability to reopen, particularly in today's environment and knowing that competitors will renogotiate during that time, is making a horrible deal whether you want to admit to it or not.

If it wasn't horrible, schools would be rushing to get into the league. They're not, as a result we get table scraps.

The strong get stronger, the weak get weaker, and the schools that produce don't want to associate with the laggards.

This has been a fun back and forth, unfortunately I have work to do so you can have the last word on this one if you choose.
The ACC contract includes "look-ins", of which there are two left. These are effectively "re-negotiations" without being able to go to the open market. Sure, the ACC cannot see what Fox will do for us but then the ACC was not in the power position when offered it's own network.

The ACC is ahead of the original projections, which is usually what the Big 12 blowhards use to compare deals. Why not wait until we see what happens after the next look-in?

Besides, as you have noted, the ACC has not done itself any favors. Do you believe that the ACC deserves the SEC and B1G level deals?
 
The ACC contract includes "look-ins", of which there are two left. These are effectively "re-negotiations" without being able to go to the open market. Sure, the ACC cannot see what Fox will do for us but then the ACC was not in the power position when offered it's own network.

The ACC is ahead of the original projections, which is usually what the Big 12 blowhards use to compare deals. Why not wait until we see what happens after the next look-in?

Besides, as you have noted, the ACC has not done itself any favors. Do you believe that the ACC deserves the SEC and B1G level deals?
When are the remaining look ins?
 
2031 would be perfect timing to raid the Big 12.
Especially if the ACC is doing well. We need HCFB to build up SU.

Though, I am not sure who would move the needle enough for ESPN. ESPN will not pay more for additional teams unless they carry their weight.
 
The ACC contract includes "look-ins", of which there are two left. These are effectively "re-negotiations" without being able to go to the open market. Sure, the ACC cannot see what Fox will do for us but then the ACC was not in the power position when offered it's own network.

The ACC is ahead of the original projections, which is usually what the Big 12 blowhards use to compare deals. Why not wait until we see what happens after the next look-in?

Besides, as you have noted, the ACC has not done itself any favors. Do you believe that the ACC deserves the SEC and B1G level deals?
I said before FSU. Miami, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, and Georgia Tech need to be good to great every year. We also need to start beating Notre Dame in those 5 games rather then lose every year.
And every ACC team should have a regular SEC opponent on their schedule. Ours should be Auburn can never beat them enough times to make up for Tie Dye.
 
Especially if the ACC is doing well. We need HCFB to build up SU.

Though, I am not sure who would move the needle enough for ESPN. ESPN will not pay more for additional teams unless they carry their weight.
Houston
Cincy
Tulane
 
Now we have the SC coach saying publicly that the SC-ND annual game could end. That annual rivalry goes back to the 1920s. For those who do not know the scheduling: ND now plays both SC nd Stanford annually. Always, when the CA team plays at ND, the game is in Oct. And then ND goes to the other CA team to close the season Thanksgiving weekend. So every season means ND ends in CA, which allows the coaching staff to recruit CA hard for several days around Thanksgiving.

If ND wants to continue that, which has worked well for ND and its CA recruiting, then the ACC could help. Cal could be substituted for SC. The ACC could agree to have ND play both Cal and Stanford each season, just like ND has played SC and Stanford, and in. return, ND plays 6 ACC football teams per season, with the other 4 rotating.

ND does not need to play SC, ever, for anything. But ND does need to play CA schools and play in CA, preferably annually. ND agreeing to play 6 ACC football games per year is a reason for ESPN to do something fiscally to help stabilize the conference. And ND will gain something. In fact, that could work out a bit better for ND in one way as ND could persuade both Cal and Stanford to play every other Home game vs. ND at the Rose Bowl. Both need to do what they can to recruit southern CA as well as possible. And playing ND at the Rose Bowl will do that.
 
Now we have the SC coach saying publicly that the SC-ND annual game could end. That annual rivalry goes back to the 1920s. For those who do not know the scheduling: ND now plays both SC nd Stanford annually. Always, when the CA team plays at ND, the game is in Oct. And then ND goes to the other CA team to close the season Thanksgiving weekend. So every season means ND ends in CA, which allows the coaching staff to recruit CA hard for several days around Thanksgiving.

If ND wants to continue that, which has worked well for ND and its CA recruiting, then the ACC could help. Cal could be substituted for SC. The ACC could agree to have ND play both Cal and Stanford each season, just like ND has played SC and Stanford, and in. return, ND plays 6 ACC football teams per season, with the other 4 rotating.

ND does not need to play SC, ever, for anything. But ND does need to play CA schools and play in CA, preferably annually. ND agreeing to play 6 ACC football games per year is a reason for ESPN to do something fiscally to help stabilize the conference. And ND will gain something. In fact, that could work out a bit better for ND in one way as ND could persuade both Cal and Stanford to play every other Home game vs. ND at the Rose Bowl. Both need to do what they can to recruit southern CA as well as possible. And playing ND at the Rose Bowl will do that.
Or Notre Dame can play Navy annually in San Diego and open up two slots on the schedule.
 
The ACC’s revenue is light years ahead of the American. What are we doing here?
the rule of reallignment is you are either in the BIG/SEC or DEAD and in a nursing home football wise.

The illogic of this zero sum-syndrome is that it plays on twitter/X and everyone falls for the banana in the tailpipe.

I think if being in the ACC is bad and it means Syracuse can't compete for national titles, well...nothing changes since 1959 for my rooting interest.
 
Breaking news: inside source has Clemson and FSU going to pac 12 and booting WSU and OSU. They’ll play each week and share revenues for the entire conference.
Burgess Meredith Meme GIF
 
This is not what conference affiliation is. It’s *mutually* beneficial to both the school and the other schools in the conference. It’s like saying someone is selfish for getting married because it benefits them without mentioning the shared sacrifice, the benefits to the spouse, the power a couple has vs an individual.

ND is the single guy living life how he wants. Free? Yep. Selfish? 100%. Do we look side eye at them and kind of wish we could do it that way when married life is hard? Sure.

But don’t equate the two.
So friends with benefits. They can do their own thing but always have another place to crash when needed. ;)

Edit: I was beaten to the punch on this reference and acknowledge being late to the party. Carry on.
 
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UNC is spooked
UNC is going to end up in the B1G with UVA and probably Duke and a couple other ACC schools.

I don’t know why people get so weird about this stuff. At some point in the next decade the ACC will get picked apart by the B1G and SEC. Those will be the two power conferences.

SU will likely end up in a rebranded “Big 12” that houses all of us misfit toys. Too big to be FCS, too small to be power 2.

It’ll be fine.
 
The ACC’s revenue is light years ahead of the American. What are we doing here?
Now it is, but if the ACC gets gutted, the revenue will drop a good deal. Basically, it is either the ACC do whatever it takes to remain Major, or else what remains of the ACC will be not much better off than the AAC..

The BT and SEC mean business - the kind that murders competition. The Pac, the Rose Bowl Pac which has many times more football history than does the ACC, is dead in all but name. And when the leftover 2 are forced to join another league even the name will give, just like the SWC.
 

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