FSU vs The ACC

[HRE Otto IV]

Anytime you try to take something that seems to work from another place far away and cram it down right on top of a system that developed naturally in another way totally. you are at best playing Dr. Frankenstein. You are a mad scientist. And you easily could-reduce a damned monster of the worst, one that destroys while being oblivious to what it is and is doing.

Plus, what has been done by BT, SEC, Fox, and Disney is to create a closed system in which they control all the money. They are not agreeing to anything that could take part of that away from them.

They would still control all the money in an open system.

The whole Super League proposal (semi closed) in Europe was for the top 15 teams to be permanent members and the last 5 to come from promotion/relegation. If CFB did something similar where the top 30 team were permanent members and the last 10 were subject to promotion/relegation, how is that any different than a closed system for those top teams?

The top 30 schools would be safe. The next 30 or so schools would have access but would also be at a significant disadvantage when compared to the permanent 30. Really you are cutting the fat off of the mid to bottom of the B1G and SEC. Those schools instead of getting a free ride will have to earn their seat at the table. Schools outside those two conferences will have access, which will prevent any issues with the government.

 

[WoadBlue]

They would still control all the money in an open system.

The whole Super League proposal (semi closed) in Europe was for the top 15 teams to be permanent members and the last 5 to come from promotion/relegation. If CFB did something similar where the top 30 team were permanent members and the last 10 were subject to promotion/relegation, how is that any different than a closed system for those top teams?

The top 30 schools would be safe. The next 30 or so schools would have access but would also be at a significant disadvantage when compared to the permanent 30. Really you are cutting the fat off of the mid to bottom of the B1G and SEC. Those schools instead of getting a free ride will have to earn their seat at the table. Schools outside those two conferences will have access, which will prevent any issues with the government.

To start, it would require both BT and SEC to give up being BT and SEC.

Relegation of soccer leagues in the UK could be brought to fruition because there was widespread political will to protect even the smallest leagues with the fewest fans, meaning the smallest franchises as well. In addition there ws politlcalwill to foster, even demand, real competition.

There is no such political will in the US. If there were, then the Pac would still exist. As for competition, the average American thinks that a monopoly proves that there was competition when it was need and that there is now monopoly there is no need for any more competition.

 

[TheCusian]

While you may want "an actual governing body that looks out for the sport", the schools do not, so they will not create one, nor will they allow one. Since the Supreme Court decisions in 1984, the NCAA makes exactly $0.00 each and every year from FBS football, and all the FBS conferences like it that way and will not create something that gets more than that in any year.

I think we do ourselves a giant disservice to suggest that there are not alternatives to the broken system we've allowed to fester. I'm not even suggesting it be the NCAA (I think they've proven to be a bad option).

Much like the owners in professional sports put rules, appoint commissioners, etc to ensure the validity of their competition, the schools will eventually realize (probably too late) that they needed to be protected from themselves. Rampant greed with no one at the wheel will 100% kill the sport.

Saying over and over again that the power brokers are too powerful to take on is doing their work for them.

 

[TheCusian]

To start, it would require both BT and SEC to give up being BT and SEC.

Relegation of soccer leagues in the UK could be brought to fruition because there was widespread political will to protect even the smallest leagues with the fewest fans, meaning the smallest franchises as well. In addition there ws politlcalwill to foster, even demand, real competition.

There is no such political will in the US. If there were, then the Pac would still exist. As for competition, the average American thinks that a monopoly proves that there was competition when it was need and that there is now monopoly there is no need for any more competition.

No such political will... yet.

The rise of the P2 and the imbalance they seek will lead to enough damage to the sport it will either need to undo it or the whole thing will die. The political will -- will come from that realization.

 

[baggerbob]

No such political will... yet.

The rise of the P2 and the imbalance they seek will lead to enough damage to the sport it will either need to undo it or the whole thing will die. The political will -- will come from that realization.

There eventually will be a lot of lawsuits from schools being left out.
This will keep the networks and potential breakaway tied up in courts for years.
Sometime after that the schools and the Networks will attempt to work something out.
It will be too late, and unless They all come up with a commissioner of some type with absolute power, football will implode.

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[javadoc]

Appeal now, or after it plays out?

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[Cusefan69]

Again I just hope while this is all going on that decisions are being made in the ACC to remove FSU and Clemson from any leadership committee roles and candidly stripping them in the short term of any decision making rights related to future ACC strategy decisions. To me they forfeited some rights once they went to court.

 

[CuseLegacy]

What’s a game? The 9-figure answer will shape FSU, Clemson, ACC lawsuits

Newly unredacted lines finally help us understand Clemson’s legal argument against the ACC.

www.tampabay.com

 

[baggerbob]

If you go in and look at who owns the ACC network and how much profit they are making now you will see ESPN has no incentive for Florida St and Clemson to leave.
It's estimated they are making a 140 million profit off the channel before Comcast came on board.
They aren't going to pay either school to go to the SEC, and the chances are slim they get a full share if the Big comes calli g.

 

[SURules]

Again I just hope while this is all going on that decisions are being made in the ACC to remove FSU and Clemson from any leadership committee roles and candidly stripping them in the short term of any decision making rights related to future ACC strategy decisions. To me they forfeited some rights once they went to court.

As well as future monetary payments possibly as well. The ACC doesn’t want to hurt it’s case but if they are leaving, the ACC needs to ensure they get payment.

 

[elimunelson]

Again I just hope while this is all going on that decisions are being made in the ACC to remove FSU and Clemson from any leadership committee roles and candidly stripping them in the short term of any decision making rights related to future ACC strategy decisions. To me they forfeited some rights once they went to court.

well they can't be part of anything remotely strategic at this point. Not sure how they can be since they're trying to take apart the conference at this point. However, you don't want to ostracize them completely because it bolsters their argument a bit.

I still think this settles within the next 12 months for an amount less than what we hope or want but large enough that makes it really sting for an exiting party

 

[HtownOrange]

I am not surprised Clemson won on its home court/field. I am surprised the judge denied sovereign status. This goes against FSU, as a sister ruling and favors the ACC.

As this is all in the early stages, an appeals court can only hear limited issues, if any at all. You would need a state specific attorney to comment on whether anything decides at this time can be appealed. I certainly cannot comment.

Without sovereign status in this case, Clemson and possibly FSU are facing an uphill battle. Further, it becomes much clearer that they will need to attack ESPN or have ESPN join them in attacking the ACC (which chance is virtually zero -stranger things have happened).

Any side agreement with either the SEC or B1G will be subject to a tortious interference claim. If there is any credible evidence of tortious I reference, either or both conferences would be doomed, in my opinion.

I think this is why Clemson is essentially only seeking an advisory opinion (usually not allowed in U.S. courts but I am NOT a SC attorney). Clemson has not stated that they will leave. FSU has not officially given notice but stated in their lawsuit that they will leave.

I still think that accountants and finance people have not dissected their respective AD dreams. It's still much more cost efficient to wait.

 

[longtimefan]

I am not surprised Clemson won on its home court/field. I am surprised the judge denied sovereign status. This goes against FSU, as a sister ruling and favors the ACC.

As this is all in the early stages, an appeals court can only hear limited issues, if any at all. You would need a state specific attorney to comment on whether anything decides at this time can be appealed. I certainly cannot comment.

Without sovereign status in this case, Clemson and possibly FSU are facing an uphill battle. Further, it becomes much clearer that they will need to attack ESPN or have ESPN join them in attacking the ACC (which chance is virtually zero -stranger things have happened).

Any side agreement with either the SEC or B1G will be subject to a tortious interference claim. If there is any credible evidence of tortious I reference, either or both conferences would be doomed, in my opinion.

I think this is why Clemson is essentially only seeking an advisory opinion (usually not allowed in U.S. courts but I am NOT a SC attorney). Clemson has not stated that they will leave. FSU has not officially given notice but stated in their lawsuit that they will leave.

I still think that accountants and finance people have not dissected their respective AD dreams. It's still much more cost efficient to wait.

Except for all those burgeoning attorney fees.

 

[WoadBlue]

No such political will... yet.

The rise of the P2 and the imbalance they seek will lead to enough damage to the sport it will either need to undo it or the whole thing will die. The political will -- will come from that realization.

I hope you are right. But the political will of BT midwestern states regarding college sports has always been to defer to BT leadership. And political leaders for SEC states have always assumed that as long as the SEC is winning and making money, things should be left alone.

 

[TheCusian]

I hope you are right. But the political will of BT midwestern states regarding college sports has always been to defer to BT leadership. And political leaders for SEC states have always assumed that as long as the SEC is winning and making money, things should be left alone.

be the kings of a dying sport or rescue it by doing what’s best for it

 

[WoadBlue]

be the kings of a dying sport or rescue it by doing what’s best for it

And how do we get powerful political leaders not tied to SEC or BT or Fox or Disney to understand that and see the need to act wisely and forcefully against very BIG money interests?

 

[TexanMark]

You forgot all the fanboys of JRsec, who I think is a paid 'influencer' by Disney/ESPN.

He definitely has an agenda. He wants the SEC as undisputed top dog.

 

[tep624]

I think we do ourselves a giant disservice to suggest that there are not alternatives to the broken system we've allowed to fester. I'm not even suggesting it be the NCAA (I think they've proven to be a bad option).

Much like the owners in professional sports put rules, appoint commissioners, etc to ensure the validity of their competition, the schools will eventually realize (probably too late) that they needed to be protected from themselves. Rampant greed with no one at the wheel will 100% kill the sport.

Saying over and over again that the power brokers are too powerful to take on is doing their work for them.

People should learn from the NASL and USFL. The fastest way to kill off a league is to create a small cadre of teams that overpower everyone else. Then everyone else eventually gets bored and will decide not to support the league. And it will happen if the P2 continues down this path. The difference between college and pro sports is that if you box out entire states and regions, those folks really won’t give a crap about the product. I mean personally, as it sits right now, I don’t watch the CFB playoff, because I could really give a crap about SEC or B1G teams for the most part. So in some cases we’re already there.

What keeps this thing sustainable and keeps people interested nationwide is inclusion, not exclusion. This isn’t the NFL.

 

[tep624]

To start, it would require both BT and SEC to give up being BT and SEC.

Relegation of soccer leagues in the UK could be brought to fruition because there was widespread political will to protect even the smallest leagues with the fewest fans, meaning the smallest franchises as well. In addition there ws politlcalwill to foster, even demand, real competition.

There is no such political will in the US. If there were, then the Pac would still exist. As for competition, the average American thinks that a monopoly proves that there was competition when it was need and that there is now monopoly there is no need for any more competition.

I think you underestimate the inherent difference between Pro and College sports in this country. The fan following of College sports more closely aligns to the English football leagues than it does the NFL. Small college towns etc.

Mark my words - if the P2 continue down this path of exclusion they will regret it.

 

[longtimefan]

People should learn from the NASL and USFL. The fastest way to kill off a league is to create a small cadre of teams that overpower everyone else. The everyone else eventually gets bored and will decide not to support the league. And it will happen if the P2 continues down this path. The difference between college and pro sports is that if you box out entire states and regions, those folks really won’t give a crap about the product. I mean personally, as it sits right now, I don’t watch the CFB playoff, because I could really give a crap about SEC or B1G teams for the most part. So in some cases we’re already there.

What keeps this thing sustainable and keeps people interested nationwide is inclusion, not exclusion. This isn’t the NFL.

If you're interested in the history of the USFL--and why it went away--check out "Small Potatoes: Who Killed the USFL?" It was the very first "30 for 30" documentary.

 

[tep624]

If you're interested in the history of the USFL--and why it went away--check out "Small Potatoes: Who Killed the USFL?" It was the very first "30 for 30" documentary.

Oh I know who killed it

 

[sufandu]

People should learn from the NASL and USFL. The fastest way to kill off a league is to create a small cadre of teams that overpower everyone else. The everyone else eventually gets bored and will decide not to support the league. And it will happen if the P2 continues down this path. The difference between college and pro sports is that if you box out entire states and regions, those folks really won’t give a crap about the product. I mean personally, as it sits right now, I don’t watch the CFB playoff, because I could really give a crap about SEC or B1G teams for the most part. So in some cases we’re already there.

What keeps this thing sustainable and keeps people interested nationwide is inclusion, not exclusion. This isn’t the NFL.

Yep. College sports are all about passion for the team you're connected to in some way, not simply wanting to watch a select few top teams battle. If the team I care about is completely irrelevant, I don't care about what happens in the rest of the sport. If it comes down to just a few elite teams that are essentially a minor league, why would I not just watch the NFL and leave my Saturdays open? College football at that point would be just as interesting to me as minor league baseball or g-league basketball.

 

[kingtidge]

I think you underestimate the inherent difference between Pro and College sports in this country. The fan following of College sports more closely aligns to the English football leagues than it does the NFL. Small college towns etc.

Mark my words - if the P2 continue down this path of exclusion they will regret it.

Kinda but not really..

Most of the pro small potatoes teams in Euro soccer find themselves relegated into the lower leagues based on how much they are willing to spend and how successful (or unsuccessful) they are run as a club business.

However, the promotion/relegation system keeps the fan interest and you still have rabid fanbases in the lower leagues teams.

All the leagues still compete against each other in a couple intra-league cups / elimination tournaments each year.

But the promotion / relegation system, by default, is a system of HAVES (the 1st division teams) vs. the teams that HAVE LESS. It's baked into the cake.

And bigger clubs that have large fanbases and first tier stadiums/facilities but are poorly run and have been relegated from the first tier for any significant period of time...

Their fans bitch and complain... A lot... As they should, for being poorly run.