Future Campus Framework Discussion

CuseLegacy

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The Dome was never aesthetically pleasing to many on here...can't we clad it in bricks, grow ivy on it, paint it. The change to the roof isn't going to change it's exterior aesthetics. What is important is what is done to the interior.
 

sutomcat

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I agree that the new roof looks strange and is not great looking.

The problem is that the dome was designed to support an air supported roof. Retro fitting it after the fact with a nice, state of the art full steel roof would be great but doing it would have been a dumb move and would have hurt the fans in the long run.

Let's talk about that design that was accidentally released early on with the renovation talks that featured a steel roof.
It looked nice. It looked really nice.

But replacing a roof that is mostly kevlar and teflon, light enough to be held up by air, with a full steel roof would have been far more expensive than the direction we went in. I am quite sure the cost of the steel alone would be over $100 million more. Then you have the problem of the walls, which would have had to be strengthened a lot more than just adding 8 'X' braces. Steel weighs a lot more than the PTFE we are using for half of roof.

So a $100 million dollar project becomes maybe a $300 million dollar project. And what do you get in terms of functionality going with a roof that costs 3 times more than the one we are getting? Nothing. You could argue that you take a hit because you would have less natural light in the facility if we went with the steel roof.

The important thing was getting a fixed roof in place. We had to address the huge risks we have been dealing with from the day the dome opened regarding collapse in the wake of a major snow storm. We had to remove all the headaches and limitations working in an air supported facility impose on us. And it had to be done now, with the last air supported roof nearing the end of its life.

I would much rather see that extra $200 million some want to spend on a steel roof spent on things that matter; a new scoreboard; more bathrooms, better sound and lighting systems, air conditioning, more comfortable seats, more elevators and escalators, and yes, wider concourses.

While I am not a great fan of the new look, I like the use of the white steel. It looks distinctive and kind of cool. The engineering concepts are right out there for you to see.

I prefer the crown truss look we will have to the porcupine spike look the Vancouver facility has. It went through a similar renovation from an air supported roof to a fixed roof. It looks like an angry, snow covered used car lot.

 

CuseOnly

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It needs louvers on the outside, from the bottom steel ring to the top truss ring that run vertical and are all white. I know there was a rendering but I have searched and can't find it.
 

NJCuse97

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I agree that the new roof looks strange and is not great looking.

The problem is that the dome was designed to support an air supported roof. Retro fitting it after the fact with a nice, state of the art full steel roof would be great but doing it would have been a dumb move and would have hurt the fans in the long run.

Let's talk about that design that was accidentally released early on with the renovation talks that featured a steel roof.
It looked nice. It looked really nice.

But replacing a roof that is mostly kevlar and teflon, light enough to be held up by air, with a full steel roof would have been far more expensive than the direction we went in. I am quite sure the cost of the steel alone would be over $100 million more. Then you have the problem of the walls, which would have had to be strengthened a lot more than just adding 8 'X' braces. Steel weighs a lot more than the PTFE we are using for half of roof.

So a $100 million dollar project becomes maybe a $300 million dollar project. And what do you get in terms of functionality going with a roof that costs 3 times more than the one we are getting? Nothing. You could argue that you take a hit because you would have less natural light in the facility if we went with the steel roof.

The important thing was getting a fixed roof in place. We had to address the huge risks we have been dealing with from the day the dome opened regarding collapse in the wake of a major snow storm. We had to remove all the headaches and limitations working in an air supported facility impose on us. And it had to be done now, with the last air supported roof nearing the end of its life.

I would much rather see that extra $200 million some want to spend on a steel roof spent on things that matter; a new scoreboard; more bathrooms, better sound and lighting systems, air conditioning, more comfortable seats, more elevators and escalators, and yes, wider concourses.

While I am not a great fan of the new look, I like the use of the white steel. It looks distinctive and kind of cool. The engineering concepts are right out there for you to see.

I prefer the crown truss look we will have to the porcupine spike look the Vancouver facility has. It went through a similar renovation from an air supported roof to a fixed roof. It looks like an angry, snow covered used car lot.

It is really the same concept. Their masts are our truss. That one went well over budget and leaked, a result of making it retractable. Glad we didn’t bother with that also. I like the porcupine look, but I am still optimistic the truss can become an attractive feature.
 

orangecuse

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On first observation it looks like an ugly add on and an add on is what it is. I am sure they looked at every possible option and this design won out. Give it a tincture of time and it will look better and better. It’s what goes on inside that really counts!
Don't kid yourself about the "design winning out" as no doubt it was the cost factor winning out here as Tomcat subsequently and eloquently mentioned. I agree with you that it looks like an ugly add on. Additionally, it projects the appearance that even in its finished state, it looks as if it remains under construction. It is what it is.
 

FrancoPizza

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After 7 beers, the new roof will look just fine.

But on a more inquisitive note, can someone explain in layman's terms exactly how the roller coaster is going to support the weight of the roof? I think of roofs being supported from the bottom-up, so this is just hard to wrap my head around.
 

sutomcat

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Layman's terms pelase and a simple drawing or analogy would be nice.
I am not an architect and am hoping NJCuse97 or someone else smarter than me can confirm this, but this is how I understand it:

The crown truss is held aloft by support beams that all lean inwards, towards the center of the roof. Those beams want to follow the force of gravity based on the direction they are leaning, and fall down into the center of the roof.

But the crown truss holds all that force and prevents an inward collapse based on its thickness and strength. Note that the cross truss part of the roof (the roller coaster part) features the thickest and strongest steel in the roof. This downward force compresses the crown truss and helps hold it together, using the extremely powerful forces of gravity to hold the truss in place. It can't collapse because the cross truss is too strong to allow this.

The weight of all the steel is the key holding it in place, supported and secure.
Once the crown truss is in place, cables can be run from it to hold up each of the individual PTFE based 'mini domes' that compromise the interior part of the roof.

This is the same principle used with arches, where the keystone holds the force from the sides of the arch and is held in place by the weight of the sides of the arch.



1571160742278.jpeg
 

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FrancoPizza

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I am not an architect and am hoping NJCuse97 or someone else smarter than me can confirm this, but this is how I understand it:

The crown truss is held aloft by support beams that all lean inwards, towards the center of the roof. Those beams want to follow the force of gravity based on the direction they are leaning, and fall down into the center of the roof.

But the crown truss holds all that force and prevents an inward collapse based on its thickness and strength. Note that the cross truss part of the roof (the roller coaster part) features the thickest and strongest steel in the roof. This downward force compresses the crown truss and helps hold it together, using the extremely powerful forces of gravity to hold the truss in place. It can't collapse because the cross truss is too strong to allow this.

The weight of all the steel is the key holding it in place, supported and secure.
Once the crown truss is in place, cables can be run from it to hold up each of the individual PTFE based 'mini domes' that compromise the interior part of the roof.

This is the same principle used with arches, where the keystone holds the force from the sides of the arch and is held in place by the weight of the sides of the arch.



View attachment 171543
Very cool explanation. Thanks.

I was initially thinking the support beams should lean outwards with the cable tension between the beams holding everything together. There would be no point to a crown truss in that case, though.
 

NJCuse97

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This is essentially correct save a term or two. I will try to come up with a simpler way to explain it if needed. It is essentially a push force and a pull force working together. The top cord of the truss (the whole thing is the crown truss) is essentially squeezing itself (compressive force, think of a vice) because of the pull of the roof hangers (tensile force, like you’ve got a fish on). The lean helps with the squeeze. The more squeeze, the less likely that ring will go anywhere, until the pull is just too much of course. That’s why the truss is so tall, (or deep).
This is similar to MSG or the Pantheon in Rome. The whole roof (Dome?) is the crown truss and the hole is what we are hanging from. That hole is made by the top cord.

 

NJCuse97

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Very cool explanation. Thanks.

I was initially thinking the support beams should lean outwards with the cable tension between the beams holding everything together. There would be no point to a crown truss in that case, though.
Outward is what they did at BC Place. We couldn’t use the existing walls to do this and I assume we didn’t have the room to do it without the existing walls.
 

FrancoPizza

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Outward is what they did at BC Place. We couldn’t use the existing walls to do this and I assume we didn’t have the room to do it without the existing walls.
You’re saying outward would put more stress on the walls?
 

NJCuse97

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You’re saying outward would put more stress on the walls?
I am not certain of all the structural analysis, but there is very little structural capacity to the walls. They are self supporting, but little else. The main structure is that holding up the stands and the top ring we are using to mount the crown truss on. At BC Place as would be the case with us, the outward poles there is a lot of load resolution that is needed. Expensive resolution.
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DoubleDee

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Is there such a thing as a blueprint drawing, or elevations of the carrier dome from its planning stages? Now that would be something for the cave.
 

NineOneSeven

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Some quality mechanical engineering and statics discussion going on in here.
 

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