Future Campus Framework Discussion

[OttoMets]

I genuinely appreciate not just the compliment, but what you guys are saying. As for the professors you speak of, Richard Gluckman, the designer of Dineen Hall is one of the most accomplished architects in the world (he's that respected) and he's an SU alum. I do agree that it's dark looking, and maybe a little too solid. That said, I think that was part of his design intent. The interior contradicts all the preconceptions of the building created by the exterior. It is light and bright and open. I will say this, building performance (energy efficiency) has become such a dominating discourse in architecture that some of the smaller punch windows and dark color could be to improve the building's thermal performance and heat gain in the colder, darker climate of Syracuse. I think both Dineen and Ernie Davis achieved LEED Gold. In general, I agree that all the new buildings should be a lot more contextual. That is one of the reasons I've always liked Eggers. That building has no ego. It lives to serve the older buildings around it.

Yeah, the fortress look of Dineen is pretty bad. And the contextual utility manages to be worse. Some of us thought the law clinic and the cafeteria space should have storefront space on the street, enlivening the sidewalk. The dean overrode those recommendations and then compounded the problem by putting a security checkpoint at the single public entrance. You have to go through a turnstyle to get into the building. It's about as uninviting as a building can be.

The interior is impressive. Really nice. But it turns its back on the university community and the public, which is a bad look for a building of its type.

Eggers is great; one of my favorites. Functional, great-looking, and doesn't steal any of the thunder of its better-looking neighbors. Underrated cafeteria, too.

 

[sutomcat]

Agree, Eggers fits really nicely into the buildings surrounding it. Whoever did that building did a great job. More please!

I have never been inside Dineen. Great to hear the interior is more welcoming than the exterior.

Enjoy talking about architecture. Glad there are people out there that care about it. These threads are fun.

 

[orangecuse]

Yeah, the fortress look of Dineen is pretty bad. And the contextual utility manages to be worse. Some of us thought the law clinic and the cafeteria space should have storefront space on the street, enlivening the sidewalk. The dean overrode those recommendations and then compounded the problem by putting a security checkpoint at the single public entrance. You have to go through a turnstyle to get into the building. It's about as uninviting as a building can be.

The interior is impressive. Really nice. But it turns its back on the university community and the public, which is a bad look for a building of its type.

Eggers is great; one of my favorites. Functional, great-looking, and doesn't steal any of the thunder of its better-looking neighbors. Underrated cafeteria, too.

"A castle dark"...

 

[SU68]

Don't worry. In 5 years you'll be that creepy old guy telling the coeds about how the original Hungry Chucks was better than the new one.

This is so true. I still tell stores about The Orange back in the day. lol

 

[Cusefan0307]

Any truth to a rumor that the university is looking to move football games after this year?

 

[jr4750]

Any truth to a rumor that the university is looking to move football games after this year?

Where did you hear that? I heard it today from a big donor at an event with the Chancellor and AD. Thought he was out of the loop, as I didn't believe this was ever a real possibility. I will say, nothing of the sort came from any SU admins that were in attendance. I chatted with Jason Poles, and other AD staffers.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Any truth to a rumor that the university is looking to move football games after this year?

I hope so. Not because I want that to happen but because that would mean they're getting serious about getting cranes in the air.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Have they considered a plan where they would play back-to-back years on the road in ACC play to free up the dome in Oct-Nov? In exchange for back-to-back home games later on?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Where did you hear that? I heard it today from a big donor at an event with the Chancellor and AD. Thought he was out of the loop, as I didn't believe this was ever a real possibility. I will say, nothing of the sort came from any SU admins that were in attendance. I chatted with Jason Poles, and other AD staffers.

It's second hand info, but probably from the same circles you did. Interesting.

 

[FrancoPizza]

It's second hand info, but probably from the same circles you did. Interesting.

If there is any legitimacy to that rumor it must mean that construction savings would be significant enough to offset the loss of revenue for several home games. I'm sure somebody could ballpark what those numbers would be.

 

[sutomcat]

If there is any legitimacy to that rumor it must mean that construction savings would be significant enough to offset the loss of revenue for several home games. I'm sure somebody could ballpark what those numbers would be.

I was shocked to hear Wildhack saying the loss of a season of games for football or basketball was unacceptable and absolutely not being entertained. It has to be much less expensive and risky to do the renovation in an unoccupied Dome.

They might end up losing a few people because they realize they can live without season tickets in one or both sports, but I bet the novelty and hype for a newly refurbished Dome, and the extra income the renovation would bring would easily offset that.

If they could build the Dome with one lost season of football and basketball, they could be able to renovate it with one lost season. I am sure they would prefer to only lose football. I wonder if it would be possible to make the Dome usable for basketball if the renovation started as soon as the basketball season ended? I bet it would be.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I wonder if it would be possible to make the Dome usable for basketball if the renovation started as soon as the basketball season ended? I bet it would be.

Just one more reason to avoid the NIT.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I was shocked to hear Wildhack saying the loss of a season of games for football or basketball was unacceptable and absolutely not being entertained. It has to be much less expensive and risky to do the renovation in an unoccupied Dome.

They might end up losing a few people because they realize they can live without season tickets in one or both sports, but I bet the novelty and hype for a newly refurbished Dome, and the extra income the renovation would bring would easily offset that.

If they could build the Dome with one lost season of football and basketball, they could be able to renovate it with one lost season. I am sure they would prefer to only lose football. I wonder if it would be possible to make the Dome usable for basketball if the renovation started as soon as the basketball season ended? I bet it would be.

But they didn't lose a season of BB when the Dome was built. Games were still in Manley. Or am I having another Senior moment.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

But they didn't lose a season of BB when the Dome was built. Games were still in Manley. Or am I having another Senior moment.

Construction went from November 1978 to August 1980.

Basketball was still played at Manley in 1978-79 and 1979-80

LAX was still played at Coyne.

Only 1 season of Football was displaced.

 

[sutomcat]

But they didn't lose a season of BB when the Dome was built. Games were still in Manley. Or am I having another Senior moment.

True. They didn't and in fact, the decision to move basketball to the Dome was made at the last second (Manley had recently been renovated and expanded).

Hoping it might be possible to concentrate to stage the renovation so it is possible to play still play basketball in the Dome the November after renovations would presumably start that March.

I would think they would have to rip out the old roof, install new support columns around the exterior of the Dome for the new roof, build the new roof, get new lighting, sound and a scoreboard in place in order to be ready to stage basketball games. Maybe leave the old movable stands on the field in place all winter long while work was done expanding the concourses, replacing seating, installing new private boxes, etc. on the eastern side of the stadium.

Seems unlikely but if a lot of the roof and supporting columns was pre-staged and ready to go, maybe it could be done.

Any engineers care to weigh in with opinions?

 

[Toga]

Agree, Eggers fits really nicely into the buildings surrounding it. Whoever did that building did a great job. More please!

I have never been inside Dineen. Great to hear the interior is more welcoming than the exterior.

Enjoy talking about architecture. Glad there are people out there that care about it. These threads are fun.

Kind of off topic but when in Chicago definitely take the architectural boat tour.

 

[sutomcat]

Kind of off topic but when in Chicago definitely take the architectural boat tour.

Will do!

 

[KaiserUEO]

Dinosaurs--->Basement
Creepy Old 30-35 year olds--->new one

wait...Chuck's went upstairs into the old Sutter's??

how is that even Chuck's??

the basement is what made Chuck's...Chuck's.

 

[dan7800]

Not sure if anyone else heard this, but someone I know at the University said that their funding fell well short of the targeted goal and that the new roof is going to be the same material as the current.

Can anyone else confirm this?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Not sure if anyone else heard this, but someone I know at the University said that their funding fell well short of the targeted goal and that the new roof is going to be the same material as the current.

Can anyone else confirm this?

 

[orangecuse]

Not sure if anyone else heard this, but someone I know at the University said that their funding fell well short of the targeted goal and that the new roof is going to be the same material as the current.

Can anyone else confirm this?

Well, if indeed the case, a perfect new slogan for the University that is Syracuse...

 

[Chris02M]

Not sure if anyone else heard this, but someone I know at the University said that their funding fell well short of the targeted goal and that the new roof is going to be the same material as the current.

Can anyone else confirm this?

Hope there not that dumb,nobody else is using that material anymore.probably a lot of people are in a similar spot to me in waiting for a firm plan for upgrading the dome before a substantial donation since there taking forever to finalize plan.

 

[sutomcat]

42K multi-use facility probably in the $500M range, with a retractable roof for spring, summer, fall. Never a better time to get debt financing in place. State/County line up the debt side.

Do a PPP with a company like AEG for the equity side and a stadium like Friends in Stockholm Friends Arena - Wikipedia and have a 365 day facility for the whole community.

This is the stadium in France I was talking about. You can take it from a 50K configuration for say a football game to a 30K configuration for say a basketball game. It takes an hour to make that change and the process is fully automated. The capacity for the lower level small configuration is flexible and can be tweaked all the way down to just over 6K.

So this isn't some crazy pie in the sky thing. The technology exists and is in use every day.


Stade Pierre-Mauroy has two floors or main levels. The full stadium level or Grand Stadereaches a height of 31 m (101 feet) and has a total capacity of 50,186 seats including 4,965 business seats, 1,842 luxury-box seats, 448 protocol seats and 326 reserved for the press.

The stadium has also a peculiarity: half of the Grand Stade field is situated on hydraulics lift and massive tracks that raise and slide it above the other half of the field in three hours. This creates a second lower level floor plan and surrounding seats called Boîte à Spectacles, where basketball, tennis or music shows can take place. The Boîte à Spectacles can be configured to have a variable capacity, from 6,900 to 30,000 seats. In November 2014, it hosted the 2014 Davis Cup finals between France and Switzerland, where an attendance record was broken for the highest ever officially-sanctioned competition tennis match.

In addition, Stade Pierre-Mauroy has a retractable roof which opens and shuts in 15 minutes. The stadium is also recognised as a HQE Building with solar panels and two windmills to provide as electrical supply. The stadium is fully accessible by metro stations and road and includes 7,000 parking spaces.

It was completed in 2012. Cost was 618 million Euros, which as of today is about 690 million USD. Some money could be saved if the retractable roof was thrown out.

 

[NJCuse97]

This is the stadium in France I was talking about. You can take it from a 50K configuration for say a football game to a 30K configuration for say a basketball game. It takes an hour to make that change and the process is fully automated. The capacity for the lower level small configuration is flexible and can be tweaked all the way down to just over 6K.

So this isn't some crazy pie in the sky thing. The technology exists and is in use every day.


Stade Pierre-Mauroy has two floors or main levels. The full stadium level or Grand Stadereaches a height of 31 m (101 feet) and has a total capacity of 50,186 seats including 4,965 business seats, 1,842 luxury-box seats, 448 protocol seats and 326 reserved for the press.

The stadium has also a peculiarity: half of the Grand Stade field is situated on hydraulics lift and massive tracks that raise and slide it above the other half of the field in three hours. This creates a second lower level floor plan and surrounding seats called Boîte à Spectacles, where basketball, tennis or music shows can take place. The Boîte à Spectacles can be configured to have a variable capacity, from 6,900 to 30,000 seats. In November 2014, it hosted the 2014 Davis Cup finals between France and Switzerland, where an attendance record was broken for the highest ever officially-sanctioned competition tennis match.

In addition, Stade Pierre-Mauroy has a retractable roof which opens and shuts in 15 minutes. The stadium is also recognised as a HQE Building with solar panels and two windmills to provide as electrical supply. The stadium is fully accessible by metro stations and road and includes 7,000 parking spaces.

It was completed in 2012. Cost was 618 million Euros, which as of today is about 690 million USD. Some money could be saved if the retractable roof was thrown out.

So apart from the cost and "down time" I get squeamish about too many moving parts, especially when they are so crucial or integral to the operation of the facility. If a retractable roof breaks, get it closed and operations can continue. If a field motor or mechanism breaks, you're out of commission. If that were to happen at Jerry-world, and they couldn't get the grass outside, they'd have to leave the roof open just to keep the grass alive. In more temperate climates like Arlington, Miami, or France (yes even northern France) this is less a problem than it would be in Syracuse. This is why Astroturf was invented for the Astrodome, the grass died. When originally built, Shea Stadium had mechanically moving lower tier to reconfigure between football and baseball. It killed the grass and broke the second season they tried to put it to use and so they locked it in place in baseball configuration because they could still make it work for football.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2004/04/11/sports/1964nfl.jpg

 

[GoSU96]

This is the stadium in France I was talking about. You can take it from a 50K configuration for say a football game to a 30K configuration for say a basketball game. It takes an hour to make that change and the process is fully automated. The capacity for the lower level small configuration is flexible and can be tweaked all the way down to just over 6K.

So this isn't some crazy pie in the sky thing. The technology exists and is in use every day.


Stade Pierre-Mauroy has two floors or main levels. The full stadium level or Grand Stadereaches a height of 31 m (101 feet) and has a total capacity of 50,186 seats including 4,965 business seats, 1,842 luxury-box seats, 448 protocol seats and 326 reserved for the press.

The stadium has also a peculiarity: half of the Grand Stade field is situated on hydraulics lift and massive tracks that raise and slide it above the other half of the field in three hours. This creates a second lower level floor plan and surrounding seats called Boîte à Spectacles, where basketball, tennis or music shows can take place. The Boîte à Spectacles can be configured to have a variable capacity, from 6,900 to 30,000 seats. In November 2014, it hosted the 2014 Davis Cup finals between France and Switzerland, where an attendance record was broken for the highest ever officially-sanctioned competition tennis match.

In addition, Stade Pierre-Mauroy has a retractable roof which opens and shuts in 15 minutes. The stadium is also recognised as a HQE Building with solar panels and two windmills to provide as electrical supply. The stadium is fully accessible by metro stations and road and includes 7,000 parking spaces.

It was completed in 2012. Cost was 618 million Euros, which as of today is about 690 million USD. Some money could be saved if the retractable roof was thrown out.

Yep, I've linked to that a bunch of times.