Future Campus Framework Discussion

[xc84]

I believe college football is played out of doors all over the US with one school being the exception.

Not mention that, thanks to the recent warming trends, Syracuse averages less than 10 inches of snow for the entire month of November these days.

Thanks. I still prefer a dome in November. I doubt I would keep my season tickets if they don't have a roof. I know, I know, I am a wuss and don't really know what football is and an pansy, blah blah blan

 

[xc84]

Maybe there is an obvious reason that I don't understand, but why does the design show a pillow-like hard roof? I would think it is cheaper to have a smooth surface roof.

I would guess for drainage and support reasons. Without the "bubbles", that surface is almost flat at that point.

That's just my wild guess.

 

[baggerbob]

To be fair, football attendance in November has been horrible for the last 15 seasons in our indoor stadium.

You never sat in Archbold in November, cold,
and wind on the hill can make it almost unbearable.

 

[rrlbees]

No it isn't, which makes me question some of the decision making.

There's so much wrong with the Dome itself that I'm not sure keeping it was the wisest decision. There is exactly one full-time combination football/basketball arena in the world, which makes it probably something that should have never been birthed to begin with. This thing is the ugly step child of sporting arenas/stadiums. It is iconic, but it's not great for football and wasn't designed for basketball. They're trying to do what they can without spending a lot of money and do it quickly to not impact sports. So this the best that they're going to come up with. The money being spent is on the design and trying to shoehorn it all together. Something has to get the short stick. And, right now, it appears that it will be the fans/amenities.

I think maybe an outdoor stadium for football in the Dome's footprint and a Skytop arena for basketball would probably have been the best plan, definitely more expensive upfront, but would tick a lot more boxes. But in the end, I'm just a fan and not on the BOT. So ... I hope it all works out for the best.

The city or county shouldn’t either IMO. The Yum is going bankrupt in Louisville and now they’ve been caught cheating while on probation.

$$$$$.

 

[rrlbees]

Such an original post/response...haven't heard that one before.

They have the money, it comes down to commitment. The winfall gift of a lifetime invite to the ACC afforded this to them. Although a bit simplistic, earning about $20 million/yr. more than it did when it was in the Big East, that's a $200 million surplus in 10 years, 10! I realize there's other costs in there, but you get the point.

They don't have the money no matter how many times you say it. No school has $400M+ they are going to sink into sports facilities. Nobody. Its mostly done through donors.

 

[xc84]

They don't have the money no matter how many times you say it. No school has $400M+ they are going to sink into sports facilities. Nobody. Its mostly done through donors.

Not sure why people think SU is loaded with money just sitting around waiting to be spent. It's not.

 

[rrlbees]

Longevity my rear end, the only focus is on price and what they don't want to pay.

how much you donating?

 

[P Vasiloff]

how much you donating?

I've donated enough in my lifetime. My conscience is clear regarding calling them cheap!

 

[upperdeck]

people might want to ask what they think the upkeep on the dome is. people might be shocked.

 

[Fly Rodder]

They don't have the money no matter how many times you say it. No school has $400M+ they are going to sink into sports facilities. Nobody. Its mostly done through donors.

Disagree.

The most common way to pay for stadium improvements is the issuance of tax-exempt bonds.

Of course, like I said, I'm not on the BOT and I don't get to see the books where accountants can make the numbers say whatever they want to make them say.

My only issue (and it's really not an issue, because crap like this doesn't keep me up at night or change my day one iota) is SU isn't getting as much bang for their buck for their expensive renovation because they have a huge list of costly priorities that are unique to their situation and 99% of other universities don't have to deal with. As a result, things that other school prioritize end up low on SU's list. Like access. And general aesthetics. Like fan amenities.

Though, I guess keeping a roof over a football stadium so that (hopefully) 40,000 people don't get cold for four hours on two days in November each year is a huge fan amenity - maybe attendees for those games should be charged more to pay for the roof? Some theoretical math: $100m for the roof replacement divided by two games per year divided by 40,000 people divided by 30 years = ~$41 extra per attendee per November game for 30 years. That's a bargain!

 

[jr4750]

SU needs to create enough of a mousetrap with the amenities fans want, to draw more of the people they are failing to attract now. However, they need to do this while also continuing to facilitate the seasons of 5 sports teams that use the building and pay for the staffs and scholarships of those athletes. They also have to figure out how to retrofit a new roof onto an outdated stadium whose current infrastructure is obsolete. On top of all of that they have to control costs because of a noticeable lack of big donors, and multiple other projects on the to do list. There is a lot going on here. I don’t envy Pete Salas day to day for the next 3 years.

 

[mayselc]

I disagree. This isn't an easy thing to do.

They are deciding now, among many other things, whether to lock the capacity of the facility long term at a number around 44K or whether to spend extra to allow an expansion that may or may not be needed sometime in the future.

They have to project where the future attendance will be at events for the next 30 or 40 years. How successful will the football program be during this time period? What will happen with football long term with CTE and violence concerns? Will in house attendance downturns we are seeing through the country continue and worsen or is this a temporary thing? What will happen with basketball attendance and interest long term?

Tomcat,

I would be fine with a reseating plan that tops out at 44k capacity, regardless of the teams expected popularity.

If the team gets popular enough that we are selling out 4+ home games a year, the money will be there for an expansion or a new facility. Let the increased ticket prices and overall revenue pay for a new/expanded facility.

Adding a 50% increase in renovation cost now to save money of a potential expansion later, doesn't make sense to me.

Let's make it a hot ticket again (a la the late 80's), before we dip further into the piggy bank.

 

[GoCuse14]

Thanks for this.

So this list doesn't discuss adding any additional support columns. If there aren't any, the existing columns would have to support the existing roof and the new ring truss (which I believe is made of steel). Could be some significant snow too at times.

The summer of 2020 is going to be whirlwind of activity. Wow, there is a lot to do in a short period of time!

I have access to the structural diagrams. I will look to see about added columns.

 

[sutomcat]

Tomcat,

I would be fine with a reseating plan that tops out at 44k capacity, regardless of the teams expected popularity.

If the team gets popular enough that we are selling out 4+ home games a year, the money will be there for an expansion or a new facility. Let the increased ticket prices and overall revenue pay for a new/expanded facility.

Adding a 50% increase in renovation cost now to save money of a potential expansion later, doesn't make sense to me.

Let's make it a hot ticket again (a la the late 80's), before we dip further into the piggy bank.

I might be too. The key is knowing what it would cost to accommodate possible future requirements. A couple of million dollars makes sense. 50 million does not.

Honestly, I am thrilled just to see the university make a substantial investment in the future of the Dome. Having a facility with state of the art acoustics and lighting and a top notch scoreboard is going to make my game day experience a lot better.

 

[dollarbill44]

You never sat in Archbold in November, cold,
and wind on the hill can make it almost unbearable.

I'm not old enough to have had the pleasure, but my father has told me stories.

 

[dollarbill44]

I've donated enough in my lifetime. My conscience is clear regarding calling them cheap!

You haven't donated enough for a new stadium.

 

[rrlbees]

I've donated enough in my lifetime. My conscience is clear regarding calling them cheap!

Well then many more need to donate include some huge donors. No school puts out 3-400m for a facility. None.

 

[rrlbees]

You never sat in Archbold in November, cold,
and wind on the hill can make it almost unbearable.

I did as a teen with a flask of peppermint schnapps.

 

[CuseGrad94]

I see people write stuff like "I hope the new design can support the heavy snow".

...as if they said something they think no one else thought of.

Do people who say that really think that they are noting something that is not crazy obvious and would be an obvious design factor?

we need to be patient with some of the doubters...there are scars that run deep

 

[reedny]

I have access to the structural diagrams. I will look to see about added columns.

They're in the diagram as "new steel bracing". I looked up bracing and it refers to lateral support pieces. But they look like verticals in the drawing. Another mystifying Dome rendering from SU.

https://html1-.scribdassets.com/4yeq1zxwow6lmd4s/images/12-b4d1b9c364.jpg

 

[GoCuse14]

They're in the diagram as "new steel bracing". I looked up bracing and it refers to horizontal/lateral supports. But they look like verticals in the drawing. Another mystifying Dome rendering from SU.

https://html1-.scribdassets.com/4yeq1zxwow6lmd4s/images/12-b4d1b9c364.jpg

Yeah getting ready to look. What I did find interesting and dont know if it was mentioned...It looks like the plan in to surround the roof steel structure (roller coaster beams) with a Louver screen wall.

 

[rrlbees]

Disagree.

Of course, like I said, I'm not on the BOT and I don't get to see the books where accountants can make the numbers say whatever they want to make them say.

My only issue (and it's really not an issue, because crap like this doesn't keep me up at night or change my day one iota) is SU isn't getting as much bang for their buck for their expensive renovation because they have a huge list of costly priorities that are unique to their situation and 99% of other universities don't have to deal with. As a result, things that other school prioritize end up low on SU's list. Like access. And general aesthetics. Like fan amenities.

Though, I guess keeping a roof over a football stadium so that (hopefully) 40,000 people don't get cold for four hours on two days in November each year is a huge fan amenity - maybe attendees for those games should be charged more to pay for the roof? Some theoretical math: $100m for the roof replacement divided by two games per year divided by 40,000 people divided by 30 years = ~$41 extra per attendee per November game for 30 years. That's a bargain!

You’re wrong about donors and facilities. Unless it’s a state funded thing.

 

[xc84]

I don't see that in the proposed drawing (with only the steel support structure showing) .. but that doesn't mean much because my vision is fried at this point.

https://html1-.scribdassets.com/4yeq1zxwow6lmd4s/images/12-b4d1b9c364.jpg

Back in May, they did discuss something like that might happen but I don't see that in the renderings.

 

[GoCuse14]

I don't see that in the proposed drawing (with only the steel support structure showing) .. but that doesn't mean much because my vision is fried at this point.

https://html1-.scribdassets.com/4yeq1zxwow6lmd4s/images/12-b4d1b9c364.jpg

Hopefully this doesn't end up on Nunes

 

[shandeezy7]

Well then many more need to donate include some huge donors. No school puts out 3-400m for a facility. None.

Of course large donations are needed for a project like this at a private university. The university will also be ponying up a large chunk, I assume through the issuance of bonds. Between increased ACC revenue and, hopefully, increased projected revenue from an updated, more fan-friendly dome, there should be sufficient funds to cover the interest on these bonds. News like this doesn't hurt in this regard:

University Earns Top Short-Term Credit Rating from Standard and Poor’s