Future Campus Framework Discussion

[xc84]

I see people write stuff like "I hope the new design can support the heavy snow".

...as if they said something they think no one else thought of.

Do people who say that really think that they are noting something that is not crazy obvious and would be an obvious design factor?

 

[721Comstock]

I am sure they are considering future expansion in their plans. It's an easy thing to do. They don't need us amateurs to tell them how to design it.

THIS, exactly.

They've been studying this for YEARS now, with engineers and everything.
I'm sure they're taking into account the future modifications that are planned (and even considered), given that they want this new structure to last for 40-50 years.

 

[OttoMets]

Damn we need some Vegas money! I'll hope for the best, would be cool to go to one of the big concerts at the dome and actually hear the music clearly.

Yeah, unlimited budgets make for pretty cool toys: New High-Tech Vegas Arena To Provide Immersive Experience - Arena Digest

 

[xc84]

Yeah, unlimited budgets make for pretty cool toys: New High-Tech Vegas Arena To Provide Immersive Experience - Arena Digest

New Vegas football stadium will only cost $1.8B.

 

[sutomcat]

I am sure they are considering future expansion in their plans. It's an easy thing to do. They don't need us amateurs to tell them how to design it.

I disagree. This isn't an easy thing to do.

They are deciding now, among many other things, whether to lock the capacity of the facility long term at a number around 44K or whether to spend extra to allow an expansion that may or may not be needed sometime in the future.

They have to project where the future attendance will be at events for the next 30 or 40 years. How successful will the football program be during this time period? What will happen with football long term with CTE and violence concerns? Will in house attendance downturns we are seeing through the country continue and worsen or is this a temporary thing? What will happen with basketball attendance and interest long term?

Will there be interest in more private boxes, especially on the basketball side of the facility? How much interest?

How much money will it cost now to provide some flexibility down the line?

Given the budget they have and the limited funds available, I think we all know what is going to happen. But if a minor investment could provide potential major returns down the road, I hope it is considered.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I disagree. This isn't an easy thing to do.

No it isn't, which makes me question some of the decision making.

There's so much wrong with the Dome itself that I'm not sure keeping it was the wisest decision. There is exactly one full-time combination football/basketball arena in the world, which makes it probably something that should have never been birthed to begin with. This thing is the ugly step child of sporting arenas/stadiums. It is iconic, but it's not great for football and wasn't designed for basketball. They're trying to do what they can without spending a lot of money and do it quickly to not impact sports. So this the best that they're going to come up with. The money being spent is on the design and trying to shoehorn it all together. Something has to get the short stick. And, right now, it appears that it will be the fans/amenities.

I think maybe an outdoor stadium for football in the Dome's footprint and a Skytop arena for basketball would probably have been the best plan, definitely more expensive upfront, but would tick a lot more boxes. But in the end, I'm just a fan and not on the BOT. So ... I hope it all works out for the best.

 

[xc84]

But if a minor investment could provide potential major returns down the road, I hope it is considered.

I really don't know what you are talking about now. I was just talking about the ability to add structure on the outside of the dome. Of course they are thinking about that. They are not idiots.

 

[orangecuse]

That rendering from the Walter's Group that came (leaked) out back in May of '17 was impressive and very aesthetically pleasing. These current renderings, if I'm being 100% transparent, are aesthetically unpleasing, putting it mildly. I've been trying to convince myself otherwise, but it's like Chevy Chase attempting to convince his wife in Vacation that that gorgeous "pool waitress" is ugly.

These renderings clearly are an aesthetic let down. If it really came down to not wanting to displace the sports teams, this was immensely short sighted. Cost probably had just as much to do with it, which, in the big picture of things, can also be argued as myopic as well.

As someone also mentioned, these snip-its of details here and there, many unanswered questions, etc. to its surrounding community that supports the university, is a huge missed opportunity to get the region really jazzed up, and a major PR failure...in my view.

 

[bnoro]

That rendering from the Walter's Group that came (leaked) out back in May of '17 was impressive and very aesthetically pleasing. These current renderings, if I'm being 100% transparent, are aesthetically unpleasing, putting it mildly. I've been trying to convince myself otherwise, but it's like Chevy Chase attempting to convince his wife in Vacation that that gorgeous "pool waitress" is ugly.

These renderings clearly are an aesthetic let down. If it really came down to not wanting to displace the sports teams, this was immensely short sited. Cost probably had just as much to do with it, which, in the big picture of things, can also be argued as short cited as well.

You have a few million dollars to donate laying around?

 

[shandeezy7]

You have a few million dollars to donate laying around?

Such a lazy and annoying retort. As if only those with millions of dollars to spare are allowed to have opinions on things.

 

[orangecuse]

You have a few million dollars to donate laying around?

Such an original post/response...haven't heard that one before.

They have the money, it comes down to commitment. The winfall gift of a lifetime invite to the ACC afforded this to them. Although a bit simplistic, earning about $20 million/yr. more than it did when it was in the Big East, that's a $200 million surplus in 10 years, 10! I realize there's other costs in there, but you get the point.

 

[dollarbill44]

Which is kind of ridiculous when this is a building they’ll be stuck with for 30-40 more years (based on the “longevity” comment). It’s moronic to be short-sighted in the decision making, especially since it serves both of your revenue producing sports as well as a number of others. They need to think seriously about enhancing the fan experience.

Money is a legitimate reason (to me) for reining in the scope of the project. SU is a private university with not a ton of big athletic donors. At a time when private universities have legit concerns about their future viability, I don't have a problem with it.

 

[bnoro]

Such an original post/response...haven't heard that one before.

They have the money, it comes down to commitment. The winfall gift of a lifetime invite to the ACC afforded this to them. Although a bit simplistic, earning about $20 million/yr. more than it did when it was in the Big East, that's a $200 million surplus in 10 years, 10! I realize there's other costs in there, but you get the point.

Which we've seen invested in the Melo Center and the IPF and Manley and now the Carrier Dome but the fact remains that Syracuse is a private university with no huge money donors for sports. Just because the ACC is giving us more TV money doesn't mean that is liquid for us to spend.

The proposal you posted would probably cost the school 3 to 4 times more than the 100+ million they are investing. I'm sure there's a plan in place to make the proposals look nice.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Money is a legitimate reason (to me) for reining in the scope of the project. SU is a private university with not a ton of big athletic donors. At a time when private universities have legit concerns about their future viability, I don't have a problem with it.

If money was the overarching issue, you take the roof off, play football outdoors, get on board with the county/state arena for basketball and hockey, and sign a 20-year lease. If you don't want to spend money, don't get into the business of building and running sports arenas.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

If money was the overarching issue, you take the roof off, play football outdoors, get on board with the county/state arena for basketball and hockey, and sign a 20-year lease. If you don't want to spend money, don't get into the business of building and running sports arenas.

We have 18,000 basketball season ticket holders. The County wanted to build a 12,000 seat arena.

The math doesn't work.

 

[dollarbill44]

Such an original post/response...haven't heard that one before.

They have the money, it comes down to commitment. The winfall gift of a lifetime invite to the ACC afforded this to them. Although a bit simplistic, earning about $20 million/yr. more than it did when it was being in the Big East, that's a $200 million surplus in 10 years, 10! I realize there's other costs in there, but you get the point.

The fact you say SU has the money doesn't make it so. Unless you are on the planning committee for this, or on the BOT or are currently working in the infrastructure field, you likely have no idea what the real cost would be of a project or projects that tick off enough boxes to make the fans happy. The more complex the project(s), the longer the planning process, the higher the cost for design (which I think a lot of people are underestimating) and the higher the cost for basically everything, including cost of capital.
You can't just take the PV of ACC cash flows and say SU has at least this much to cover it.

 

[Fly Rodder]

We have 18,000 basketball season ticket holders. The County wanted to build a 12,000 seat arena.

The math doesn't work.

I haven't seen any mention of a 12,000 seat arena. But what I did see was that SU didn't want to be a leasee and wanted their own building that they could control.

 

[310Pigpen]

I think maybe an outdoor stadium for football in the Dome's footprint and a Skytop arena for basketball would probably have been the best plan, definitely more expensive upfront, but would tick a lot more boxes. But in the end, I'm just a fan and not on the BOT. So ... I hope it all works out for the best.

Attendance would be horrible for an outdoor stadium in November.

 

[dollarbill44]

Attendance would be horrible for an outdoor stadium in November.

To be fair, football attendance in November has been horrible for the last 15 seasons in our indoor stadium.

 

[310Pigpen]

To be fair, football attendance in November has been horrible for the last 15 seasons in our indoor stadium.

That’s because of the product on the field. Now imagine that plus sitting outside in crap weather. There would be 10k people there.

 

[syracuse95]

To be fair, football attendance in November has been horrible for the last 15 seasons in our indoor stadium.

An outdoor stadium certainly isn't going to improve it.

 

[SU68]

Maybe there is an obvious reason that I don't understand, but why does the design show a pillow-like hard roof? I would think it is cheaper to have a smooth surface roof.

 

[Fly Rodder]

I believe college football is played out of doors all over the US with one school being the exception.

Not mention that, thanks to the recent warming trends, Syracuse averages less than 10 inches of snow for the entire month of November these days.

 

[P Vasiloff]

Longevity my rear end, the only focus is on price and what they don't want to pay.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If money was the overarching issue, you take the roof off, play football outdoors, get on board with the county/state arena for basketball and hockey, and sign a 20-year lease. If you don't want to spend money, don't get into the business of building and running sports arenas.

The city or county shouldn’t either IMO. The Yum is going bankrupt in Louisville and now they’ve been caught cheating while on probation.