Future Campus Framework Presentation...

[Cheriehoop]

Traffic in that boulevard area will be nuts. Currently there are 5 lanes north on Almond from Adams to Harrison St and 3 then 4 lanes southbound on Almond under 81 from the Adams Sr off ramp to Adams. They are replacing it with a pretty 2 lane boulevard north and south. The current traffic isn't through traffic, it's city traffic going mainly to/from the 3 major hospitals, SU and ESF. What streets are going to handle the other missing 3 lanes northbound and 1 to 2 lanes southbound to move the traffic to/from the hill areas through the city? The new boulevard wont be able to with the lane reduction. I haven't seen anything about Irving Ave, University Ave , Walnut Ave nor Comstock etc being expanded to accommodate the traffic from the reduced lanes.

Personally I figure it's a done deal but "the plan" that is being presented is reflecting only partial costs and effects for eliminating 81 in order to garner more public support. No way that all the changes necessary to make it a workable traffic plan are being included. Other city level streets will need to be expanded necessitating building teardowns etc. Parking for this area, always a horror show, will still need to be addressed. How does eliminating 2 lanes bypassing the city each way above the streets (81) effect the basic traffic issue below it? Crossing Almond St to head up the hill wasn't horrible because of 81, it's horrible because of the traffic congested heading to a 4 to 6 block area. Unless the reasons that people, thus cars, head to the "hill" area changes, or multiple streets are expanded to handle the current traffic, what does 81 have anything to do with it? Just my personal take - only after trying to understand the entire project and its' goals.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Traffic in that boulevard area will be nuts. Currently there are 5 lanes north on Almond from Adams to Harrison St and 3 then 4 lanes southbound on Almond under 81 from the Adams Sr off ramp to Adams. They are replacing it with a pretty 2 lane boulevard north and south. The current traffic isn't through traffic, it's city traffic going mainly to/from the 3 major hospitals, SU and ESF. What streets are going to handle the other missing 3 lanes northbound and 1 to 2 lanes southbound to move the traffic to/from the hill areas through the city? The new boulevard wont be able to with the lane reduction. I haven't seen anything about Irving Ave, University Ave , Walnut Ave nor Comstock etc being expanded to accommodate the traffic from the reduced lanes.

Personally I figure it's a done deal but "the plan" that is being presented is reflecting only partial costs and effects for eliminating 81 in order to garner more public support. No way that all the changes necessary to make it a workable traffic plan are being included. Other city level streets will need to be expanded necessitating building teardowns etc. Parking for this area, always a horror show, will still need to be addressed. How does eliminating 2 lanes bypassing the city each way above the streets (81) effect the basic traffic issue below it? Crossing Almond St to head up the hill wasn't horrible because of 81, it's horrible because of the traffic congested heading to a 4 to 6 block area. Unless the reasons that people, thus cars, head to the "hill" area changes, or multiple streets are expanded to handle the current traffic, what does 81 have anything to do with it? Just my personal take - only after trying to understand the entire project and its' goals.

The most convenient oversight is the fact that many "thru" commuters will still drive through the city instead of taking 481. If the travel times are only changing a couple minutes many will still take the old 81 out of habit and familiarity. And I still call BS on the statistic that says only 12% is thru traffic. I take 81 to work everyday and I can tell you 8.8 out of 10 cars are NOT getting off at Harrison. If anything it's the opposite but the public is too stupid to question how they arrived at those numbers.

Bottom line - expect a colossal clustersuck when this finally comes to pass.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I've been to the Rt 81 meetings, most recently last week and have seen the renderings and the traffic study that was done. With the community grid as it's now called, not a boulevard, there will be improvements to I believe Comstock with the plan to move some of the traffic off of Almond to get up to the university.

I try to understand both sides of the argument but can't get to the place where it would be okay to level 24 buildings because some folks from Cicero, Bville or Lafayette thinks it would make their commute better. There were actual experts that did the traffic analysis.

Take a look here at the renderings comparing the viaduct to the grid as placed next to what it looks like today:

https://www.dot.ny.gov/i81opportunities/repository/Oct 19 2016 VIA board downtown.pdf

 

[KellySyracuse]

You want to take this

and make it look like this

I much prefer this

 

[OrangeXtreme]

I've been to the Rt 81 meetings, most recently last week and have seen the renderings and the traffic study that was done. With the community grid as it's now called, not a boulevard, there will be improvements to I believe Comstock with the plan to move some of the traffic off of Almond to get up to the university.

I try to understand both sides of the argument but can't get to the place where it would be okay to level 24 buildings because some folks from Cicero, Bville or Lafayette thinks it would make their commute better. There were actual experts that did the traffic analysis.

Take a look here at the renderings comparing the viaduct to the grid as placed next to what it looks like today:

https://www.dot.ny.gov/i81opportunities/repository/Oct 19 2016 VIA board downtown.pdf

They're building an exit at Irving/Crouse off I-690, and making Crouse two-way traffic.

 

[KellySyracuse]

look at how much bigger the new viaduct would be

I'll take the grid option

 

[KellySyracuse]

They're building an exit at Irving/Crouse off I-690, and making Crouse two-way traffic.

thanks, I knew they had planned to move traffic to the hill differently just couldn't remember the exact details.

 

[Macky44]

Show me the pedestrian bridges.

They have stated endlessly that there will be many pedestrian bridges along the entirety of the Blvd.

 

[CuseOnly]

They have stated endlessly that there will be many pedestrian bridges along the entirety of the Blvd.

I haven't heard that, any links you can share?

 

[Oakland]

I lived in the Philly area for 35 years. If you want the best cheesesteak in Philly, go to Tony Luke's. It's on Oregon Avenue right beside I-95. By the way I have NEVER had a cheesesteak in any other city as good as one in Philly.

I go out of my way to get a good cheese steak. 4 years ago, I was driving thru Philly and got a CS at Geno's and another one at the place across the street (Pat's?) in South Philly. Squirt on cheese and dry meat! I was very surprised. I had better ones there years ago. Best CSs I get are now at the Philadelphia Cheese Steak places in the SF Bay Area.

 

[xc84]

There is plenty of available real estate in other parts of downtown that is not being developed. Taking down a highway is not magically going to spur demand that doesn't exist. Same school of thought as 'build it or in this case destroy it and they will come'.

I just answered a question. Didnt infer it was magic.

 

[SU68]

I go out of my way to get a good cheese steak. 4 years ago, I was driving thru Philly and got a CS at Geno's and another one at the place across the street (Pat's?) in South Philly. Squirt on cheese and dry meat! I was very surprised. I had better ones there years ago. Best CSs I get are now at the Philadelphia Cheese Steak places in the SF Bay Area.

Do they put watercress or kale on them? :rolling:

 

[FrancoPizza]

View attachment 80466

look at how much bigger the new viaduct would be
View attachment 80467

I'll take the grid option

View attachment 80468

I'm still amazed that they will plant 40' mature maples and expect those trees to survive the severe transplant shock. I think this may be the first time this has been attempted.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I go out of my way to get a good cheese steak. 4 years ago, I was driving thru Philly and got a CS at Geno's and another one at the place across the street (Pat's?) in South Philly. Squirt on cheese and dry meat! I was very surprised. I had better ones there years ago. Best CSs I get are now at the Philadelphia Cheese Steak places in the SF Bay Area.

Try Jim's. Beats Pat's or Geno's.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I'm still amazed that they will plant 40' mature maples and expect those trees to survive the severe transplant shock. I think this may be the first time this has been attempted.

They have the trees in both scenerios, just more with the grid. I actually know a guy that bought full grown pine trees to line his backyard. not sure if maples or black locust trees have the same capabilities.

 

[FrancoPizza]

They have the trees in both scenerios, just more with the grid. I actually know a guy that bought full grown pine trees to line his backyard. not sure if maples or black locust trees have the same capabilities.

I think you missed the sarcasm. Mature maples don't transplant unless you want to see a dead or nearly dead tree. Renderings always present a utopian view with varying degrees of fantasy just to make people buy in. Will they plant something? Sure - you just have to wait 30 years to get something approximating the renderings. And if the city is on the hook for maintenance and landscaping - I'd expect the weeds to be bigger than the trees before too long.

 

[longtimefan]

I'm still amazed that they will plant 40' mature maples and expect those trees to survive the severe transplant shock. I think this may be the first time this has been attempted.

You know this how?

Edit: Apparently, I was not the only one who missed the sarcasm.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I think you missed the sarcasm. Mature maples don't transplant unless you want to see a dead or nearly dead tree. Renderings always present a utopian view with varying degrees of fantasy just to make people buy in. Will they plant something? Sure - you just have to wait 30 years to get something approximating the renderings. And if the city is on the hook for maintenance and landscaping - I'd expect the weeds to be bigger than the trees before too long.

Renderings present a vision of the possibilities. 81 will get ripped down. There is no good reason to keep it up. Through traffic will be diverted to 481. People going to that craptastic mall will have to drive a little further.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Renderings present a vision of the possibilities. 81 will get ripped down. There is no good reason to keep it up. Through traffic will be diverted to 481. People going to that craptastic mall will have to drive a little further.

 

[KellySyracuse]

I think people might be forgetting that the viaduct only represents about a mile and a half of the project. 81 north of the city is going to be widened, improving traffic flow to 690 and into the city

 

[FrancoPizza]

I try to understand both sides of the argument but can't get to the place where it would be okay to level 24 buildings

These 24 buildings with maybe one or two exceptions are rust belt eyesores. Tired, dilapidated and depressing. They should have been knocked down just for failure to maintain those properties.

 

[KellySyracuse]

That

These 24 buildings with maybe one or two exceptions are rust belt eyesores. Tired, dilapidated and depressing. They should have been knocked down just for failure to maintain those properties.

that is such a weak argument that has no basis in reality. all for a 1.4 mile giant bridge

 

[CuseOnly]

That
that is such a weak argument that has no basis in reality. all for a 1.4 mile giant bridge

People also forget that the 1.4 mile giant bridge is basically 2 lanes each way for the majority of the way.

So a poster comparing it to Erie Blvd is ridiculous. There is absolutely zero pedestrian traffic on Erie Blvd where the street level blvd replacing the viaduct would have quite a bit.

Street level blvd is by far and away the better option.

 

[supp]

Traffic in that boulevard area will be nuts. Currently there are 5 lanes north on Almond from Adams to Harrison St and 3 then 4 lanes southbound on Almond under 81 from the Adams Sr off ramp to Adams. They are replacing it with a pretty 2 lane boulevard north and south. The current traffic isn't through traffic, it's city traffic going mainly to/from the 3 major hospitals, SU and ESF. What streets are going to handle the other missing 3 lanes northbound and 1 to 2 lanes southbound to move the traffic to/from the hill areas through the city? The new boulevard wont be able to with the lane reduction. I haven't seen anything about Irving Ave, University Ave , Walnut Ave nor Comstock etc being expanded to accommodate the traffic from the reduced lanes.

Personally I figure it's a done deal but "the plan" that is being presented is reflecting only partial costs and effects for eliminating 81 in order to garner more public support. No way that all the changes necessary to make it a workable traffic plan are being included. Other city level streets will need to be expanded necessitating building teardowns etc. Parking for this area, always a horror show, will still need to be addressed. How does eliminating 2 lanes bypassing the city each way above the streets (81) effect the basic traffic issue below it? Crossing Almond St to head up the hill wasn't horrible because of 81, it's horrible because of the traffic congested heading to a 4 to 6 block area. Unless the reasons that people, thus cars, head to the "hill" area changes, or multiple streets are expanded to handle the current traffic, what does 81 have anything to do with it? Just my personal take - only after trying to understand the entire project and its' goals.

If the issue with the viaduct is access to the Dome on gamedays, I suppose we need to take into consideration the centers of population growth in the county. It would seem to me that most growth is occurring and has been occurring for some time east, west, and esp. north of the city. Correct me if I'm wrong but the population most affected by the boulevard will be those living downtown and south of it. On the east side, you can approach Skytop and campus via 481. On the north and west sides, from 81 and 690. That's not going to change. In fact, the planned improvements to 690 and 81 north of the city take into account the fact that the centers of population in the area are now north of the city and on this east-west axis.

I would assume that more traffic will be directed towards skytop parking on gamedays once this project is done but that seems to be a longterm plan that has little to do with the viaduct being there or not.

 

[shandeezy7]

The most convenient oversight is the fact that many "thru" commuters will still drive through the city instead of taking 481. If the travel times are only changing a couple minutes many will still take the old 81 out of habit and familiarity. And I still call BS on the statistic that says only 12% is thru traffic. I take 81 to work everyday and I can tell you 8.8 out of 10 cars are NOT getting off at Harrison. If anything it's the opposite but the public is too stupid to question how they arrived at those numbers.

Bottom line - expect a colossal clustersuck when this finally comes to pass.

If you are still taking that route to get through the city without the viaduct there instead of using the 481 bypass, then you are a moron (not you specifically, but in general).