Get rid of the Tampa 2 immediately

[Millhouse]

When you go fast you give the other team more possessions. Our scores will be inflated somewhat from here on out. 844 is that inflation + a top 5 offense, and maybe the best O player against game 2 for a new offense.

Dude the yards per play was horrific

 

[TheCusian]

Dude the yards per play was horrific

Agreed. Too many beers.

 

[VikesCuse84]

You guys are way to fixated on the defense being described as "Tampa 2". The defense was awful tonight, but Dino/Ward's defense is not exclusively Tampa 2. It's the base defensive look they give (line up in) but there is a lot of the time that they aren't actually playing a cover 2 shell. There's not a ton of talent on defense right now, and people are going to have to get used to the new philosophy of trying to out score teams. The days of rock fights are over. Coming into the season anyone that was realistic about the roster knew we had major issues on defense at every level -- DL talent and depth, undersized LBs, and DB talent and depth.

 

[Millhouse]

We've tried adapting to the players a bunch of times. It hasn't worked because the players haven't been all that good.

We're finally doing it the right way and forcing ourselves to become something that can be successful.

Is there any result in defense that could make you doubt whether their defense is the right way

 

[CousCuse]

Colgate's offense went thru that defense very easily until their staff shut them down , not wanting to get a key player injured in what for them was a meaningless game . This defense has the potential to make some very vanilla offenses look great .

 

[Crusty]

Hell, if we want to run a more coverage oriented defense, try the 3-4. We actually have decent personnel for that.

No, we don't.

 

[SoBristol]

Colgate's offense went thru that defense very easily until their staff shut them down , not wanting to get a key player injured in what for them was a meaningless game . This defense has the potential to make some very vanilla offenses look great .

Not true. The defense shut down Colgate completely, after the first drive. Forced a ton of punts -- and no signs that Colgate wasn't trying. That Colgate offense returned most of its starters from a team that scored a heck of a lot of points in the second half of 2015 (granted, at a lower level).

We have 9 starters back from a defense that was not that bad, last season, against teams like LSU, Clemson, Florida State, Pitt. It wasn't good enough, but it wasn't horrid. We lost the DEs, but in every other unit we should be better this season -- and it did not look that way last night.

Too alternatives -- Jackson is superman (and I think he is, plus he has a strong OL, and several outstanding weapons); or our defense regressed under the new staff.

 

[Cusefan95]

We've tried adapting to the players a bunch of times. It hasn't worked because the players haven't been all that good.

We're finally doing it the right way and forcing ourselves to become something that can be successful.

I agree that you need to pick a system, stick with it and recruit for it. Not doing that in the past is why the team has had no identity for over a decade.

What I disagree with is that we will be able to recruit the athletes needed for Tampa 2. Which has the potential to be disastrous since we may spend 2-3 years trying to make this system stick before recognizing it can't work...and at that point it may be too late. Losing games 62-55 instead of 13-10 and winning 4 games a year will get coaches just as fired.

It's early to sound the panic alarms, maybe last night wasn't a harbinger of what the entire season will look like...but if we set records for defensive ineptitude this year that's more than just personnel - it's system, too. If that happens and we're still committed to the Tampa 2 going forward, I'll be very concerned.

 

[CousCuse]

Not true. The defense shut down Colgate completely, after the first drive. Forced a ton of punts -- and no signs that Colgate wasn't trying. That Colgate offense returned most of its starters from a team that scored a heck of a lot of points in the second half of 2015 (granted, at a lower level).

We have 9 starters back from a defense that was not that bad, last season, against teams like LSU, Clemson, Florida State, Pitt. It wasn't good enough, but it wasn't horrid. We lost the DEs, but in every other unit we should be better this season -- and it did not look that way last night.

Too alternatives -- Jackson is superman (and I think he is, plus he has a strong OL, and several outstanding weapons); or our defense regressed under the new staff.

Melville stopped running . He is up for the Walter Payton award which is the Heisman trophy in FCS . They want to slay North Dakota State , not Syracuse .

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Is there any result in defense that could make you doubt whether their defense is the right way

I'm not necessarily saying that what we're scheming for defense is the right choice. I'm saying the right way is that the staff has established the plan for the program first and is matching the talent later. It's some short term pain with the promise of long term gain, which I prefer to the mostly short term pain with long term pain cycle we've been stuck in.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I agree that you need to pick a system, stick with it and recruit for it. Not doing that in the past is why the team has had no identity for over a decade.

What I disagree with is that we will be able to recruit the athletes needed for Tampa 2. Which has the potential to be disastrous since we may spend 2-3 years trying to make this system stick before recognizing it can't work...and at that point it may be too late. Losing games 62-55 instead of 13-10 and winning 4 games a year will get coaches just as fired.

It's early to sound the panic alarms, maybe last night wasn't a harbinger of what the entire season will look like...but if we set records for defensive ineptitude this year that's more than just personnel - it's system, too. If that happens and we're still committed to the Tampa 2 going forward, I'll be very concerned.

I'm not disagreeing with you. It remains to be seen if this defense now and in the future can do what we need.

I'm not worried about it at this point. People are getting hung up on the points and yards. Yeah, it was unprecedentedly terrible. It happened, it's over, let's move on.

 

[Millhouse]

I'm not necessarily saying that what we're scheming for defense is the right choice. I'm saying the right way is that the staff has established the plan for the program first and is matching the talent later. It's some short term pain with the promise of long term gain, which I prefer to the mostly short term pain with long term pain cycle we've been stuck in.

what type of performance would make you doubt the promise of long term gain

 

[Cusefan95]

what type of performance would make you doubt the promise of long term gain

For me - last night.

 

[sufandu]

I agree with your posts and takes throughout this thread but join me among the Tampa 2 sceptics. It seems like an odd scheme to employ for a coach who likes to roll the dice and play aggressively. It's the complete opposite of that.

We have an identity on offense finally. What will our identity be with the Tampa 2, even when we have the right personnel: bend but don't break? I'm not saying we have to throw everything at the opposing QB like the previous regime, but the T2 seems kind of lame/ tame for this team. I'm never been a fan of it in the NFL, and it seems odd to try it at this level. But I'm confident Dino put a great staff together, so we shall see.

We didn't just sit back in coverage all game last night. We brought some blitzes, it just wasn't the sellout we're used to seeing.

Having said that, I'm not a big fan of the Tampa 2. The only time it was a good defense in the NFL was when Tampa had three HOF players in their prime playing it.

I'm willing to give Dino some time to recruit to it though. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, and in the mean time I'm confident the offense with keep us in and win us games that don't include a Heisman Trophy front runner.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

what type of performance would make you doubt the promise of long term gain

Two season's worth of defensive performances against mediocre offenses.

We've got all kinds of runway. All kinds. We're all way too familiar with the false comfort our previous approach provides. I'm not running up the white flag after getting crushed by Tecmo Jackson.

 

[TheCusian]

Melville stopped running . He is up for the Walter Payton award which is the Heisman trophy in FCS . They want to slay North Dakota State , not Syracuse .

This is your take? Seriously? That Colgate gave up after the first drive!?

Melville stopped running because it wasn't working.

 

[CousCuse]

We didn't just sit back in coverage all game last night. We brought some blitzes, it just wasn't the sellout we're used to seeing.

Having said that, I'm not a big fan of the Tampa 2. The only time it was a good defense in the NFL was when Tampa had three HOF players in their prime playing it.

I'm willing to give Dino some time to recruit to it though. Maybe he'll prove me wrong, and in the mean time I'm confident the offense with keep us in and win us games that don't include a Heisman Trophy front runner.

There are a lot of QB's who would be Heisman trophy front runners if they got to play against Charlotte's defense and Syracuse's defense .

 

[sufandu]

There are a lot of QB's who would be Heisman trophy front runners if they got to play against Charlotte's defense and Syracuse's defense .

And we'll get to see one or two more this year.

 

[CousCuse]

This is your take? Seriously? That Colgate gave up after the first drive!?

Melville stopped running because it wasn't working.

He only ran 11 times . He is a running QB , so yes this is my take .

 

[orange79]

We mods are discussing changing the name of this board to Hyperbole"Fan".com

 

[CousCuse]

And we'll get to see one or two more this year.

Flower's up next .

 

[SoBristol]

Just for perspective -- BGSU had a bad defense in 2014 (lost most of its 2013 starters to graduation). Dino recruited defense more than offense in each of his two classes there. Not for his system, necessarily -- just better defensive players, more size. He also replaced his DC, bringing in Ward. And the 2015 defense was significantly better.

 

[sufandu]

There are a lot of QB's who would be Heisman trophy front runners if they got to play against Charlotte's defense and Syracuse's defense .

Jackson has played two really bad defenses but he's gonna make a lot of teams look silly this year. I don't think he's Micheal Vick like some people keep saying, but he's somewhere between Pat White and Vick.

 

[CousCuse]

Jackson has played two really bad defenses but he's gonna make a lot of teams look silly this year. I don't think he's Micheal Vick like some people keep saying, but he's somewhere between Pat White and Vick.

That is some very good company . I think Dungey would have similar stats if he were in Jackson's shoe's .

 

[qdawgg]

The days of rock fights are over.

We were in a rock fight, we just had a significantly smaller pile of rocks.