Girard

[Brooky03]

I didn't say i wouldn't. I was referencing as a Dlineman - so maybe should have phrased it more directly. Just to make point. Also when it comes to Girard the point here is about physicality and absorbing contact. Obviously he wasn't seeing 270 lb NFL sized DTs every game. But he wasnt facing a bunch of guys my size then either. The physicality and comfort maneuvering through it is a clear advantage he has from playing football and it is showing up. Pair that with overcoming triple teams in hoops and he was just as prepared if not more than a prep school kid or a kid who played a higher level of hoops talent every night.

Football might have some crossover but it’s minimal. The best way to learn to absorb and play through contact in basketball is to play basketball. Girard was a much better athlete than most of his football competition, he probably didn’t get hit a ton and when he did, he was probably delivering the blow. I wasn’t saying high school linemen were tiny humans, they’re just smaller than Girard or the same size. The ones who could actually chase him down, at least.

This argument is silly because we’re both on the side that Girard is physically ready and a complete basketball player. The football connections to his basketball success just seem forced. If there’s any connection, it’s as a leader because he played QB.

 

[Newhouser]

In class C (D?) high school football, there aren’t going to be many players on the field bigger than Girard. Maybe some fatter ones.

He played class B. His old team lost yesterday

 

[Brooky03]

He played class B. His old team lost yesterday

Someone corrected me earlier.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Ftr, I diminished nothing about his accomplishments. Just pointing out that high school defensive linemen are typically pretty small by football standards, especially in central/upstate NY.

For context, I played in class A. He’s bigger than our biggest defensive end was. And our D line size wasn’t anomalously small.

At smaller schools there may not be as many big kids, but kids are just bigger now.
My parental experience is a bit jaundice (my kids went to BVille) but my youngest, at 6'3" and about 215lbs his senior year, was annually recruited by the FB coach as a tight end, not a lineman. There were plenty of guys as big or bigger (Gabe Horan being one. Our neighbor, who was about 6'3", 320lbs, being another.)
People keep looking for reasons he won't succeed, and for the most part project stereotypes to support their argument.
The only other guy to do what he did, at his school, in his league, wound up as a college All American and NBA player. If the league was so bad, surely someone else would have come close. They haven't.

 

[FrancoPizza]

He's going to be our Aaron Craft

But wasn’t craft most noted for defense and sleeping with the officials?

 

[OrangeDW]

But wasn’t craft most noted for defense and sleeping with the officials?

yeah. I dont understand that comparison at all. They play nothing alike from what I’ve seen.

 

[moqui]

yeah. I dont understand that comparison at all. They play nothing alike from what I’ve seen.

ryan arcidiacono is a better comp. except jgiii is a better shooter

 

[Brooky03]

At smaller schools there may not be as many big kids, but kids are just bigger now.
My parental experience is a bit jaundice (my kids went to BVille) but my youngest, at 6'3" and about 215lbs his senior year, was annually recruited by the FB coach as a tight end, not a lineman. There were plenty of guys as big or bigger (Gabe Horan being one. Our neighbor, who was about 6'3", 320lbs, being another.)
People keep looking for reasons he won't succeed, and for the most part project stereotypes to support their argument.
The only other guy to do what he did, at his school, in his league, wound up as a college All American and NBA player. If the league was so bad, surely someone else would have come close. They haven't.

Can people stop twisting my words to make it sound like I was diminishing anything about Girard in any possible way? That’d be great.

I said nothing to put down his accomplishments or ability. Kids nowadays are just smaller than him. That’s just factual. He’s in the 90th percentile for height and weight. I wasn’t saying anything outrageous when I said he was one of the bigger kids on the football field. He was. He wasn’t running away from “kids much bigger than him.” He was the bigger kid the overwhelming majority of the time.

Edit: we could go position by position comparing him to his opponents if you guys would like. I’ve already checked the rosters of his state playoff opponents and what I’ve said in this pointless debate has held true. Most DEs and LBs were his size or smaller. And that’s using inflated football program numbers.

 

[Brooky03]

At smaller schools there may not be as many big kids, but kids are just bigger now.
My parental experience is a bit jaundice (my kids went to BVille) but my youngest, at 6'3" and about 215lbs his senior year, was annually recruited by the FB coach as a tight end, not a lineman. There were plenty of guys as big or bigger (Gabe Horan being one. Our neighbor, who was about 6'3", 320lbs, being another.)
People keep looking for reasons he won't succeed, and for the most part project stereotypes to support their argument.
The only other guy to do what he did, at his school, in his league, wound up as a college All American and NBA player. If the league was so bad, surely someone else would have come close. They haven't.

Btw, who the hell said the league was bad or competition was bad? I didn’t even approach the parking lot of the ballpark of saying that.

 

[DNABB5]

My first time seeing him at that last exhibition game and he does seem to have that it factor. That intangible but palpable "gamer" quality radiated from #11. I've been know to be wrong but methinks Mr. Girard will be long remembered in the Syracuse Basketball history books. That's my first impression.

 

[Cappy3]

At smaller schools there may not be as many big kids, but kids are just bigger now.
My parental experience is a bit jaundice (my kids went to BVille) but my youngest, at 6'3" and about 215lbs his senior year, was annually recruited by the FB coach as a tight end, not a lineman. There were plenty of guys as big or bigger (Gabe Horan being one. Our neighbor, who was about 6'3", 320lbs, being another.)
People keep looking for reasons he won't succeed, and for the most part project stereotypes to support their argument.
The only other guy to do what he did, at his school, in his league, wound up as a college All American and NBA player. If the league was so bad, surely someone else would have come close. They haven't.

Umm, no one else came close exactly because the league is so bad. Not another D1 player out of that league in over five years. So, yeah, it’s bad.

 

[Tango32]

yeah. I dont understand that comparison at all. They play nothing alike from what I’ve seen.

Just ment fromt a white kid, tenacious, shooter, and well composed and being disdained for it by opposing fans. I agree its obvly still very early to get a complete gauge on his play style though

 

[calorange]

I said nothing to put down his accomplishments or ability. Kids nowadays are just smaller than him. That’s just factual. He’s in the 90th percentile for height and weight. I wasn’t saying anything outrageous when I said he was one of the bigger kids on the football field. He was. He wasn’t running away from “kids much bigger than him.” He was the bigger kid the overwhelming majority of the time.

I'm sure what you say is true about him his junior and senior years. However, I seriously doubt this was true in 2016 when he lead them to their first state championship as a 150 lb sophomore, to say nothing of the disparity he likely faced as their starting point guard when he averaged over 21 points per game as an 8th grader. The totality of his athletic career so far clearly shows that he knows how to succeed even when he's not the biggest and fastest kid on the field or court.

 

[Brooky03]

I'm sure what you say is true about him his junior and senior years. However, I seriously doubt this was true in 2016 when he lead them to their first state championship as a 150 lb sophomore, to say nothing of the disparity he likely faced as their starting point guard when he averaged over 21 points per game as an 8th grader. The totality of his athletic career so far clearly shows that he knows how to succeed even when he's not the biggest and fastest kid on the field or court.

Nobody in this thread is questioning his ability to succeed or compete at any size against anybody.

 

[OrangeDW]

Just ment fromt a white kid, tenacious, shooter, and well composed and being disdained for it by opposing fans. I agree its obvly still very early to get a complete gauge on his play style though

Craft really wasn’t much of a shooter or scorer though. He was a defender. IMO, they have opposite strengths/weaknesses.

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

My initial post was that precedent suggests that Boeheim, since changing his defensive philosophy in 2009

1996. He switched in 1996.

“That’s why, around 1996, he decided to switch to the zone full time.“

The Buildup: How Jim Boeheim became the master of the 2-3 zone

Boeheim has been studying the 2-3 zone defense for 52 years. This story details his path from high school sharpshooter to revered Big East coach, all the way until he decided to play his zone full-time in 1997.

dailyorange.com

 

[OrangeDW]

1996. He switched in 1996.

“That’s why, around 1996, he decided to switch to the zone full time.“

The Buildup: How Jim Boeheim became the master of the 2-3 zone

Boeheim has been studying the 2-3 zone defense for 52 years. This story details his path from high school sharpshooter to revered Big East coach, all the way until he decided to play his zone full-time in 1997.

dailyorange.com

We still switched to man to man at times from 96-09.

Starting in 2009-10, I don’t think we’ve played one second of man to man in a real game.

 

[sl95sufan]

Umm, no one else came close exactly because the league is so bad. Not another D1 player out of that league in over five years. So, yeah, it’s bad.

Actually Joe Cremo from Villanova, picked in the 4th round of the NBA draft this year, played in the same league.

 

[Brooky03]

Craft really wasn’t much of a shooter or scorer though. He was a defender. IMO, they have opposite strengths/weaknesses.

Defender? He was a fouler

 

[rrlbees]

Actually Joe Cremo from Villanova, picked in the 4th round of the NBA draft this year, played in the same league.

G league. Not NBA draft.

 

[bozophobe]

In class C (D?) high school football, there aren’t going to be many players on the field bigger than Girard. Maybe some fatter ones.

To start, my comment was meant partly as a joke.

That said, you have to account for the younger years. Girard wasn't beefy and 6'2" when he started. He was indeed chased by bigger people.

My main point being that his football experience and success supports the overall alpha male-ism (a welcome and increasingly common recruiting success by Boeheim in recent years). You're right that there's no clear trans-sport crossover thing. Can be, though (Lawrence Moten, Donovan McNabb, Melvin Tuten, etc.)

 

[AlpharettaCuse]

We still switched to man to man at times from 96-09.

Starting in 2009-10, I don’t think we’ve played one second of man to man in a real game.

Cmon. We’ve been a zone team since 1996-7. That’s my point. Never mind the handful of possessions that we switched to man each season. Boeheim changed his philosophy back in 1996, not 2009.

 

[Brooky03]

To start, my comment was meant partly as a joke.

That said, you have to account for the younger years. Girard wasn't beefy and 6'2" when he started. He was indeed chased by bigger people.

My main point being that his football experience and success supports the overall alpha male-ism (a welcome and increasingly common recruiting success by Boeheim in recent years). You're right that there's no clear trans-sport crossover thing. Can be, though (Lawrence Moten, Donovan McNabb, Melvin Tuten, etc.)

Then we’re on the same page.


...and everyone else can shut up with their stupid takes.

 

[realorange]

Why is it early? The three candidates faced the exact same competition and to my eyes one out played the other two. Are ACC guards going to be that much more quicker and physical then Carleton’s? They feel like the exact type of player Girard would struggle with and Carey would do better with. Yet, again to my eyes, the reverse happened.

It's early because we don't know what any of these young players are going to do against ACC competition.
As far as guards faster and more physical than Carleton's? Let's just say several far more experienced and greater ability than either Girard or Carey at this point in their careers.

 

[Cappy3]

G league. Not NBA draft.

Oh, sorry. One D1 guy in five years, recruited not by Nova but UAlbany. Yeah, league is loaded with talent.