"Golden Era"

[Sgt Cuse]

In another thread, respected poster RF2044 said "When we were in the golden era of the late 80s". This sentiment was also expressed in the thread discussing the best SU team ever.

People need to step back out of the forest and see the trees. We are currently in the Golden Era. The twilight years of the JB era will be the standard and reference for years to come. It has started 3 years earlier than I expected (I always thought DC2 was coming and that would notch SU up and then JB would retire).

The late 80s were nice but look at the comparisons:
1. records - we're now in the average 30 wins per years. I know there are a few more games now but the 30 win level is among the top in the nation.
2. Big East domination - two out the last 3 have been sole owners of first place, running away with it in record fashion last year. We never dominated the Big East regular season before.
3. NCAAT seeding - 2 out of 3, number 1 seeds. These gaudy records haven't come against the sisters of the poor (sorry Louie and Bouie). The SOS and seeding show respect nationwide.
4. Recruiting - The number of McDs coming here far surpasses any other time, the 80s included. We never had these kind of centers come here.
5. Coaching - JB has gotten better and continues to change/improve (ie 26-4 OT record).
6. Polls - Number 1 - 2 out of 3 years. Plus a coast to coast top 5. Top of SU's game.
7. Fan support. The away support is now insane at times. The misnomer "travels well" is really a reference to the large contingent of transplanted upstate NYers scattered throughout the East. Although I was not at an SU/St Johns game in the late 80s, I would bet my house that 65-70% of the crowd was not wearing Orange.

Of course without a FF/Title the era will be missing a credential but it is still impressive. And as for pros, that will take a while to play out, but I think Dion, Fab, MCW, and my longshot J Grant could all do well.

Please appreciate and recognize what is currently underway and has taken place thus far. I understand there are fond memories of the late 80s (the Silver Era perhaps) but the program is in the best shape ever, right now!

 

[br801]

Excellent post, Sarge. The sustained excellence under Boeheim has been incredible, but what we're seeing right now in terms of recruiting is really unprecedented here and does suggest that perhaps the best may be to come.

While much needs to fall into place to actually win a national championship, JB has certainly done an outstanding job positioning the program to do so in the near future. As a fan, you can't ask for anything more.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Excellent post, Sarge. The sustained excellence under Boeheim has been incredible, but what we're seeing right now in terms of recruiting is really unprecedented here and does suggest that perhaps the best may be to come.

While much needs to fall into place to actually win a national championship, JB has certainly done an outstanding job positioning the program to do so in the near future. As a fan, you can't ask for anything more.

And for Hop it may be a blessing and a curse. If things work out in the positive way we would like for JB to ride off into the sunset, Hop will have great recruits, but a very difficult act to follow.

As for JB, if he can get a couple deeper runs in the NCAAT with these type seasons, he can put distance on one of the last stigmas, the always good but never great label.

 

[br801]

And for Hop it may be a blessing and a curse. If things work out in the positive way we would like for JB to ride off into the sunset, Hop will have great recruits, but a very difficult act to follow.

As for JB, if he can get a couple deeper runs in the NCAAT with these type seasons, he can put distance on one of the last stigmas, the always good but never great label.

No matter how it plays out for JB, it won't be easy for Hop. But I have a good feeling about him. He has a great basketball mind, and from what I've observed, he's his own man. I believe he will integrate what he's learned under JB with his own approach to the game, and I think we'll get a fine coach and another tremendous representative of the university.

 

[RF2044]

In another thread, respected poster RF2044 said "When we were in the golden era of the late 80s". This sentiment was also expressed in the thread discussing the best SU team ever.

People need to step back out of the forest and see the trees. We are currently in the Golden Era. The twilight years of the JB era will be the standard and reference for years to come. It has started 3 years earlier than I expected (I always thought DC2 was coming and that would notch SU up and then JB would retire).

The late 80s were nice but look at the comparisons:
1. records - we're now in the average 30 wins per years. I know there are a few more games now but the 30 win level is among the top in the nation.
2. Big East domination - two out the last 3 have been sole owners of first place, running away with it in record fashion last year. We never dominated the Big East regular season before.
3. NCAAT seeding - 2 out of 3, number 1 seeds. These gaudy records haven't come against the sisters of the poor (sorry Louie and Bouie). The SOS and seeding show respect nationwide.
4. Recruiting - The number of McDs coming here far surpasses any other time, the 80s included. We never had these kind of centers come here.
5. Coaching - JB has gotten better and continues to change/improve (ie 26-4 OT record).
6. Polls - Number 1 - 2 out of 3 years. Plus a coast to coast top 5. Top of SU's game.
7. Fan support. The away support is now insane at times. The misnomer "travels well" is really a reference to the large contingent of transplanted upstate NYers scattered throughout the East. Although I was not at an SU/St Johns game in the late 80s, I would bet my house that 65-70% of the crowd was not wearing Orange.

Of course without a FF/Title the era will be missing a credential but it is still impressive. And as for pros, that will take a while to play out, but I think Dion, Fab, MCW, and my longshot J Grant could all do well.

Please appreciate and recognize what is currently underway and has taken place thus far. I understand there are fond memories of the late 80s (the Silver Era perhaps) but the program is in the best shape ever, right now!

Interesting topic, Sarge. Quick question for you [not meant as a criticism], but were you around for the 80s, and understand college hoops as an adult? Because there isn't a lot in that post I agree with, and some of it lacks a bit of perspective on the teams from that era.

These past few years have been great. But the reason people refer to that era reverentially is because, quite frankly, it WAS a different era. Teams were way more talent laden back then than they are now, prior to the mass exodus of early entrants, kids jumping right to the NBA out of high school, etc. One-and-dones were practically unheard of. Which is why most people on this forum believe that if you transplanted a squad from the 80's--say for example, the '89 team, that they would handle even a team like last year that went 34-3 and was a #1 seed. The game was much, much more competitive back then. So just comparing records doesn't tell the whole story--trust me on that. And your comment about the sisters of the poor shows recent media influence--do you remember when we used to play tough mid-season out of conference games every year?

Also, I don't agree with your characterization of recruiting. To say that "...the number of McDs coming here far surpasses any other time" is simply not true. Pearl, DC, Stevie Thompson, Rodney Walker, Michael Smith, Billy Owens, and Wallace etc. in my book trumps Greene, Jonny, Fab, MCW, Rak, and Coleman. We are FINALLY back to the point where we are a significant factor landing McD's players again, but it is not accurate to say that we're landing them like never before--both in quantity and quality.

Now, here's what I DO agree with from your post. Recruiting took an enormous hit after the early 90s probation scandal. Thank god for Moten and Wallace, or we might not have weathered that storm. But the program dipped in terms of both recruiting and performance--a trend that lasted throughout the 90s and didn't turn around until Troy Weaver came as an assistant coach, and started helping SU land talented players again. There is no question that we are recruiting like gangbusters now--having JB as a HOF'er who's won a title, the Melo Center, and the recent run of tremendous regular season success have us positioned well on the recruiting trail. And as long as JB is here, there is no reason to believe that the good times won't continue. The fan traveling support has never been better [another thing you correctly point out]. WE REALLY ARE IN A RENAISSANCE as a program. Gold, silver, whatever--I want another NC!!!

But I just think that you characterization of the mid-to-late 80s and early 90s is off-target. Regardless, cool topic.

LGO!!!

 

[newmexicuse]

In another thread, respected poster RF2044 said "When we were in the golden era of the late 80s". This sentiment was also expressed in the thread discussing the best SU team ever.

People need to step back out of the forest and see the trees. We are currently in the Golden Era. The twilight years of the JB era will be the standard and reference for years to come. It has started 3 years earlier than I expected (I always thought DC2 was coming and that would notch SU up and then JB would retire).

The late 80s were nice but look at the comparisons:
1. records - we're now in the average 30 wins per years. I know there are a few more games now but the 30 win level is among the top in the nation.
2. Big East domination - two out the last 3 have been sole owners of first place, running away with it in record fashion last year. We never dominated the Big East regular season before.
3. NCAAT seeding - 2 out of 3, number 1 seeds. These gaudy records haven't come against the sisters of the poor (sorry Louie and Bouie). The SOS and seeding show respect nationwide.
4. Recruiting - The number of McDs coming here far surpasses any other time, the 80s included. We never had these kind of centers come here.
5. Coaching - JB has gotten better and continues to change/improve (ie 26-4 OT record).
6. Polls - Number 1 - 2 out of 3 years. Plus a coast to coast top 5. Top of SU's game.
7. Fan support. The away support is now insane at times. The misnomer "travels well" is really a reference to the large contingent of transplanted upstate NYers scattered throughout the East. Although I was not at an SU/St Johns game in the late 80s, I would bet my house that 65-70% of the crowd was not wearing Orange.

Of course without a FF/Title the era will be missing a credential but it is still impressive. And as for pros, that will take a while to play out, but I think Dion, Fab, MCW, and my longshot J Grant could all do well.

Please appreciate and recognize what is currently underway and has taken place thus far. I understand there are fond memories of the late 80s (the Silver Era perhaps) but the program is in the best shape ever, right now!

Great and interesting post relating to the state of our program. However, we need a NC or at least a couple of FFs for this to be validated as a truly golden era. Ten or twenty years from now nobody will care that we won 30 games 3 times in a row & were ranked #1 for part of the season. It will be the FF's & NCs that are not forgotten.

However, what is missing from the current era is the longevity of the players. Back then you could really, really get attached to your stars. They played & stayed. Now we still have many very good four years players such as Scoop, Andy, Gerry, Hak, etc., some of whom I really, really liked. But, the really terrific talents are one or two & done. We will never again witness entire careers from the Dave Bings, the Sherm Douglas's, the Rony Seikaly's, & the DC caliber guys again. Back then, even if somebody left early ala Pearl or Billy they were around for at least three years. It was so rewarding to see a guy like Rony just evolve over the course of four seasons from an extremely raw frosh to a star who had a great career - college & pro. Now, even as raw as he was when he got to the Cuse, he probably only would have been a two year guy.

I enjoy the current success of the program as much as the next fan, but when uber-talents don't stick around there is a piece that is missing that cannot be replaced merely by counting up the W's.

 

[NortheastOHSUfan]

Interesting topic, Sarge. Quick question for you [not meant as a criticism], but were you around for the 80s, and understand college hoops as an adult? Because there isn't a lot in that post I agree with, and some of it lacks a bit of perspective on the teams from that era.

These past few years have been great. But the reason people refer to that era reverentially is because, quite frankly, it WAS a different era. Teams were way more talent laden back then than they are now, prior to the mass exodus of early entrants, kids jumping right to the NBA out of high school, etc. One-and-dones were practically unheard of. Which is why most people on this forum believe that if you transplanted a squad from the 80's--say for example, the '89 team, that they would handle even a team like last year that went 34-3 and was a #1 seed. The game was much, much more competitive back then. So just comparing records doesn't tell the whole story--trust me on that. And your comment about the sisters of the poor shows recent media influence--do you remember when we used to play tough mid-season out of conference games every year?

Also, I don't agree with your characterization of recruiting. To say that "...the number of McDs coming here far surpasses any other time" is simply not true. Pearl, DC, Stevie Thompson, Rodney Walker, Michael Smith, Billy Owens, and Wallace etc. in my book trumps Greene, Jonny, Fab, MCW, Rak, and Coleman. We are FINALLY back to the point where we are a significant factor landing McD's players again, but it is not accurate to say that we're landing them like never before--both in quantity and quality.

Now, here's what I DO agree with from your post. Recruiting took an enormous hit after the early 90s probation scandal. Thank god for Moten and Wallace, or we might not have weathered that storm. But the program dipped in terms of both recruiting and performance--a trend that lasted throughout the 90s and didn't turn around until Troy Weaver came as an assistant coach, and started helping SU land talented players again. There is no question that we are recruiting like gangbusters now--having JB as a HOF'er who's won a title, the Melo Center, and the recent run of tremendous regular season success have us positioned well on the recruiting trail. And as long as JB is here, there is no reason to believe that the good times won't continue. The fan traveling support has never been better [another thing you correctly point out]. WE REALLY ARE IN A RENAISSANCE as a program. Gold, silver, whatever--I want another NC!!!

But I just think that you characterization of the mid-to-late 80s and early 90s is off-target. Regardless, cool topic.

LGO!!!

I agree with you RF. While I really liked the teams we have had the last few years, the teams with Douglas and Coleman were much better IMO. The excitement that those teams generated may never be matched again.

 

[obliterata]

When Derrick Coleman was here SU went 11-4 in the NCAA tournament, made the Elite Eight once, made the Final Four once playing in the championship game. When SU gets back to that level I'll believe we're in the "new" Golden Era.

 

[skurey]

I mean when focusing on our tournament success for this current era it's kinda hard to ignore us losing our starting centers for both tournaments when we were the 1 seed.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

RF and Northeast - I think you have a legitimate case in suggesting that the teams in the 80s may have been better, at least on paper talentwise.

However, then you would have to consider the whole landscape better back then. Because the records, seeding, polls, and placement within the Big East during this current run have never been better. The era you are refering to existed for everyone, just as everyone now has to deal with the possible exodus to the pros of their best players. So relative to the competition, SU is now doing better.

I also think we are just in the midst of it. That we've got at least 2-3 more years just based on the current situation. And it looks like a solid plan in place to try and keep it going, but in todays environment it is hard to see too far down the road.

 

[RF2044]

RF and Northeast - I think you have a legitimate case in suggesting that the teams in the 80s may have been better, at least on paper talentwise.

However, then you would have to consider the whole landscape better back then. Because the records, seeding, polls, and placement within the Big East during this current run have never been better. The era you are refering to existed for everyone, just as everyone now has to deal with the possible exodus to the pros of their best players. So relative to the competition, SU is now doing better.

I also think we are just in the midst of it. That we've got at least 2-3 more years just based on the current situation. And it looks like a solid plan in place to try and keep it going, but in todays environment it is hard to see too far down the road.

Disagree. We've won the BE before--it just wasn't 18 teams big! Heck, the 90-91 team ran out to a gaudy record before the postseason thud. But we can't look at 17-1 as the measuring stick, and say that teams that didn't achieve that record weren't as good.

Last year's record was unprecedented and an amazing accomplishment. AMAZING. We might never go 30-1 in a regular season again, in any era, with any group of players. It was a dream season in many respects [off court melodrama notwithstanding].

And one thing I agree 100% with from your OP is that we are in a renaissance; the glory days are here again--and it is a great time to be an SU hoops fan!

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Great and interesting post relating to the state of our program. However, we need a NC or at least a couple of FFs for this to be validated as a truly golden era. Ten or twenty years from now nobody will care that we won 30 games 3 times in a row & were ranked #1 for part of the season. It will be the FF's & NCs that are not forgotten.

However, what is missing from the current era is the longevity of the players. Back then you could really, really get attached to your stars. They played & stayed. Now we still have many very good four years players such as Scoop, Andy, Gerry, Hak, etc., some of whom I really, really liked. But, the really terrific talents are one or two & done. We will never again witness entire careers from the Dave Bings, the Sherm Douglas's, the Rony Seikaly's, & the DC caliber guys again. Back then, even if somebody left early ala Pearl or Billy they were around for at least three years. It was so rewarding to see a guy like Rony just evolve over the course of four seasons from an extremely raw frosh to a star who had a great career - college & pro. Now, even as raw as he was when he got to the Cuse, he probably only would have been a two year guy.

I enjoy the current success of the program as much as the next fan, but when uber-talents don't stick around there is a piece that is missing that cannot be replaced merely by counting up the W's.

I think we need the FF and title runs to be able to be compared to the programs we want to be discussed with. But for SU, many remember and quote the late 80s and that is between 20-30 years ago. So for us on this board, I think we will be talking about this time for decades, with or without the elusive title.

The SU model is having 4 year players mixed with an elite. But it is weird that we will be discussing the BT era, the Andy era, the Whitehot era which will be encompassing the bigger talents of Wes, Dion, Fab, and probably MCW.

I think it could be considered a Golden Era for all of basketball during the late 80s for the reasons you mention for all schools keeping their big talent. But based on how you do relative to the competition, right now is making serious noise. A FF/title in this run and there is no more debate.

 

[PoppyHart]

I don't think any of the recent teams hold a candle to the teams from '86-'91, regardless of the final records.

 

[AlaskaSU]

No guarantees, but looking at the players we are involved with, chances are good that we are in the beginning stages of what will be seen as the best of times. Instead of having our usual 1, or 2 at the most, burger boys, we now will have 3, but I expect that we will move into the 4 territory, ala NCarolina, Kentucky etc. Not all burger boys live up to expectations, but over the long run, the more the better. We will need another NC to cement this argument. Only time will tell.

 

[reedny]

Interesting topic, Sarge. Quick question for you [not meant as a criticism], but were you around for the 80s, and understand college hoops as an adult? Because there isn't a lot in that post I agree with, and some of it lacks a bit of perspective on the teams from that era.

These past few years have been great. But the reason people refer to that era reverentially is because, quite frankly, it WAS a different era. Teams were way more talent laden back then than they are now, prior to the mass exodus of early entrants, kids jumping right to the NBA out of high school, etc. One-and-dones were practically unheard of. Which is why most people on this forum believe that if you transplanted a squad from the 80's--say for example, the '89 team, that they would handle even a team like last year that went 34-3 and was a #1 seed. The game was much, much more competitive back then. So just comparing records doesn't tell the whole story--trust me on that. And your comment about the sisters of the poor shows recent media influence--do you remember when we used to play tough mid-season out of conference games every year?

Also, I don't agree with your characterization of recruiting. To say that "...the number of McDs coming here far surpasses any other time" is simply not true. Pearl, DC, Stevie Thompson, Rodney Walker, Michael Smith, Billy Owens, and Wallace etc. in my book trumps Greene, Jonny, Fab, MCW, Rak, and Coleman. We are FINALLY back to the point where we are a significant factor landing McD's players again, but it is not accurate to say that we're landing them like never before--both in quantity and quality.

Now, here's what I DO agree with from your post. Recruiting took an enormous hit after the early 90s probation scandal. Thank god for Moten and Wallace, or we might not have weathered that storm. But the program dipped in terms of both recruiting and performance--a trend that lasted throughout the 90s and didn't turn around until Troy Weaver came as an assistant coach, and started helping SU land talented players again. There is no question that we are recruiting like gangbusters now--having JB as a HOF'er who's won a title, the Melo Center, and the recent run of tremendous regular season success have us positioned well on the recruiting trail. And as long as JB is here, there is no reason to believe that the good times won't continue. The fan traveling support has never been better [another thing you correctly point out]. WE REALLY ARE IN A RENAISSANCE as a program. Gold, silver, whatever--I want another NC!!!

But I just think that you characterization of the mid-to-late 80s and early 90s is off-target. Regardless, cool topic.

LGO!!!

Interesting thread, and spirited reply This has always been a point of debate among the faithful. No question that the post-probationary period (90's) was the nadir, and the Dome opening (80s) the watershed, the latter ushering in a string of McD players (only one indication of talent) beginning with Pearl in '83 (Red Bruin came in one year before the Dome opened). After Pearl, there were 6 more McD's through McCrae in 89. I'll let other posters handle the win/loss comparison.

But no matter how the last 3 decades compare, it's hard to argue with the term 'renaissance' in describing the last three years -- with 2 regular season titles, 2 number 1 seeds and this past year's historic record. I think it's fair to say that if this talent-chievement string continues, it'll be the best decade ever.

Indeed, talent-wise I DO go back to the 80's and can't remember getting as many top players in consecutive years (Green, Flynn, Melo, MCW, X-Mas, DC2) as we did since the 80's DC and Thompson came through in 86' (through Red Autry in '90). Whether the squads from that decade could compete with last year's team is fodder for speculation. But it is (sadly) true that the advent of one-and-dones has drained the college hoops talent pool. There are simply fewer quality veteran players.

If we're comparing decades loosely, the chart linked below shows that from 83 to 93, our McD count was 10. 8 from 80 to 90. By contrast, from 2002 to 2012 the count is 8, but in 2 different years, we got 2 McD players (only 1 double McD year in the 80's).

http://orangehoops.org/High Schools/McDonalds All Americans.htm

YearPlayerHigh SchoolCity
2011
Rakeem ChristmasAcademy of the New Church
Bryn Athyn, PA
Michael Carter-Williams
St. Andrews
Barrington, RI
2010
Fab Melo
Sagemont
Weston, FL
2007
Jonny Flynn
Niagara Falls
Niagara Falls, NY

Donte' Greene
Towson Catholic
Towson, MD
2005
Eric Devendorf
Oak Hill Academy
Mouth of Wilson, VA
2002
Carmelo Anthony
Oak Hill Academy
Mouth of Wilson,VA
1992
Michael Lloyd*
Dunbar
Baltimore, MD

John Wallace
Greece Athena
Rochester, NY
1990
Adrian Autry
St. Nicholas of Tolentine
Bronx, NY
1989
Conrad McRae
Brooklyn Technical
Brooklyn, NY
1988
Billy Owens
Carlisle
Carlisle, PA
1986
Derrick Coleman
Detroit Northern
Detroit, MI

Stephen Thompson
Crenshaw
Los Angeles, CA
1985
Rodney Walker
Cardinal Gibbons
Baltimore, MD
1984
Michael Brown
Dunbar
Baltimore, MD
1983
Pearl Washington
Boys and Girls
Brooklyn, NY
1979
Tony Bruin
Mater Christi
Astoria, NY

 

[IthacaMatt]

I don't think any of the recent teams hold a candle to the teams from '86-'91, regardless of the final records.

I think the current teams are better defensively. We still run like we used to, but the physical talent of some of the big men is where the difference lies. Big men stayed in college a couple years longer, so they were more refined and skilled in the late 80s / early 90s. But today's teams play the zone as a cohesive unit like never before.

 

[BuffOrange]

RF and Northeast - I think you have a legitimate case in suggesting that the teams in the 80s may have been better, at least on paper talentwise.

However, then you would have to consider the whole landscape better back then. Because the records, seeding, polls, and placement within the Big East during this current run have never been better. The era you are refering to existed for everyone, just as everyone now has to deal with the possible exodus to the pros of their best players. So relative to the competition, SU is now doing better.

Agreed, I don't like comparing eras like that. It's kinda like saying the 200lb linemen in football 20yrs ago would get killed by the current guys who are now much bigger and faster. I mean it's probably true but so what?

Disagree. We've won the BE before--it just wasn't 18 teams big! Heck, the 90-91 team ran out to a gaudy record before the postseason thud.

All the more reason why 2 recent outright titles is such an accomplishment. The '91 team was the only one to do it back then (how the stacked '89 team only went 10-6 is a mystery to me).

 

[OttoMets]

I think the current teams are better defensively. We still run like we used to, but the physical talent of some of the big men is where the difference lies. Big men stayed in college a couple years longer, so they were more refined and skilled in the late 80s / early 90s. But today's teams play the zone as a cohesive unit like never before.

My money's on the earlier teams, but I'd also argue that the current teams bring a more consistent effort. With few exceptions, the past three teams have played with a lot more focus and desire than their late-'80s counterparts. Credit Rautins; he created a new culture.

 

[RandygoCuse]

In another thread, respected poster RF2044 said "When we were in the golden era of the late 80s". This sentiment was also expressed in the thread discussing the best SU team ever.

People need to step back out of the forest and see the trees. We are currently in the Golden Era. The twilight years of the JB era will be the standard and reference for years to come. It has started 3 years earlier than I expected (I always thought DC2 was coming and that would notch SU up and then JB would retire).

The late 80s were nice but look at the comparisons:
1. records - we're now in the average 30 wins per years. I know there are a few more games now but the 30 win level is among the top in the nation.
2. Big East domination - two out the last 3 have been sole owners of first place, running away with it in record fashion last year. We never dominated the Big East regular season before.
3. NCAAT seeding - 2 out of 3, number 1 seeds. These gaudy records haven't come against the sisters of the poor (sorry Louie and Bouie). The SOS and seeding show respect nationwide.
4. Recruiting - The number of McDs coming here far surpasses any other time, the 80s included. We never had these kind of centers come here.
5. Coaching - JB has gotten better and continues to change/improve (ie 26-4 OT record).
6. Polls - Number 1 - 2 out of 3 years. Plus a coast to coast top 5. Top of SU's game.
7. Fan support. The away support is now insane at times. The misnomer "travels well" is really a reference to the large contingent of transplanted upstate NYers scattered throughout the East. Although I was not at an SU/St Johns game in the late 80s, I would bet my house that 65-70% of the crowd was not wearing Orange.

Of course without a FF/Title the era will be missing a credential but it is still impressive. And as for pros, that will take a while to play out, but I think Dion, Fab, MCW, and my longshot J Grant could all do well.

Please appreciate and recognize what is currently underway and has taken place thus far. I understand there are fond memories of the late 80s (the Silver Era perhaps) but the program is in the best shape ever, right now!

The record in OT really stands out. And since these are teams taking us to overtime, you know it is most likely not happening against cupcakes... When you mentioned "not wearing Orange," I thought it brought up another interesting note that with more televised games, fans tend to wear their team colors more often. Not sure if this makes them "better" fans, but I think it definitely makes for a better overall experience.

 

[orangefan13]

We had one final four since 1998.
I have higher expectations(not just hopes).

I guess my point is if this is one of our golden eras and it doesn't get any better then we are never going to have a dynasty. I would love to see us have something like 3 titles and 3-4 other final fours in 15 years. I think that is possible.
So I refuse to call this a golden era yet.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

The record in OT really stands out. And since these are teams taking us to overtime, you know it is most likely not happening against cupcakes... When you mentioned "not wearing Orange," I thought it brought up another interesting note that with more televised games, fans tend to wear their team colors more often. Not sure if this makes them "better" fans, but I think it definitely makes for a better overall experience.

I think JB has improved. I really hope that the playing more people has solidified. It not only helps on the court but may help in bringing in more stud recruits.

What I meant by the comment about the Orange was the unexpected turnout of fans at MSG. I had heard here about it but was skeptical. That place was over 50% SU fans. And that was just judging by the gear people were wearing. There is no way that was the case in the 80s, but St Johns is not the St John of old either. Still, I think the SU fan base has grown tremendously.

I would also guess that the TV numbers are rising. Not only in raw numbers but also in relation/ranking to other schools. A consistent winner really helps a fan base.

 

[bballbeadle]

I am pretty sure Jon Stewart is a fan of our program. Last year when he filled out his brackets he had "Syracuse v. Cheetos" in his championship game. When we get the "hat tip" from Stewart, we've made the big time!

I, too, feel we are in a Golden Era that we will look back upon with a lump in our throats. I cannot even begin to imagine what it will be like when Boeheim coaches his last game. I wasn't in Syracuse for most of the 80's, but I can say that for me, right now, these are the good old days.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We had one final four since 1998.
I have higher expectations(not just hopes).

I guess my point is if this is one of our golden eras and it doesn't get any better then we are never going to have a dynasty. I would love to see us have something like 3 titles and 3-4 other final fours in 15 years. I think that is possible.
So I refuse to call this a golden era yet.

Agree with the aspirations, but personally, I think the team needs a couple Final Fours in the next 3 years or so - we let 2 clear opportunities slip away in the past 3 years, and we continue to stockpile elite talent. That's the time frame for JB before he retires - would love to see him get a couple more Final Fours and a second championship. Would also love to see Mike take over with Final Four talent on hand, just to smooth the transition, like Pitino did for Tubby Smith (who got a championship at Kentucky his first year, with Rick's left overs).

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I don't think any of the recent teams hold a candle to the teams from '86-'91, regardless of the final records.

I think the projected '13-'14 squad of - jr MCW, jr Rak, so DC2, so Whitehot, sr CJ backed up w sr BMK, so J Grant, so silentG, and a big 3 pg to be named later - would be double digit favorites over most of the squads you list. The '87 and '89 teams probably could keep it within single digits.

 

[OttoMets]

I think the projected '13-'14 squad of - jr MCW, jr Rak, so DC2, so Whitehot, sr CJ backed up w sr BMK, so J Grant, so silentG, and a big 3 pg to be named later - would be double digit favorites over most of the squads you list. The '87 and '89 teams probably could keep it within single digits.

Poppy specifically said "recent teams." A little difficult to project what the team will look like two years from now (and a little crazy to assume that that collection of guys will improve to such a degree that it would be a double-digit favorite over teams featuring guys like Pearl, Addison, Seikaly, Alexis, and Coleman).