Goodman and Thamel

[Ghost]

Or this demonstrates why the current system is stupid...why force a kid who has no interest in going to school to get an education to go play in the college ranks when he is really only interested in making a living playing ball. If you are good enough, why should you have to wait a year?

You don't - go play in Europe.

Could they go straight to the D-League?

 

[Ghost]

Or this demonstrates why the current system is stupid...why force a kid who has no interest in going to school to get an education to go play in the college ranks when he is really only interested in making a living playing ball. If you are good enough, why should you have to wait a year?

It doesn't really solve the problem anyway. Fine, the top 4 kids go straight to the NBA, that just means Cal and his buddy take #5 through #10 and offer up $200,000.

 

[jr4750]

Just because this stuff is surfacing doesn't mean Nerlens Noel knows or is involved in any of it or that it is true. However it being Kentucky makes me feel that it is true, although it still could be involving people Noel knows and not himslef.
In the end we all know that recruiting against Kentucky is not playing against a level field its uphill all the way. And that is how it should be because who wants SU to go to the length UK and Cal will to recruit kids? Not me. I'm not going to bang on an 18 year old kid for going to UK even if he directly accepts money himself. He's 18 and who knows what type of support system he has in place to make this decision.
In the end its an NCAA issue, since they let these things happen when its seemingly common knowlegde. Just last year this time Davis's Dad got 200K or whatever and look where he is playing . . . .

My question is that from what I have heard we have been refused to turn in other programs that have done this in the past. NC State, GT, UK, etc. We simply don't want to be a tattle tale. But if we are so clean, why not? If we recruit in this gray area, then we are just as bad. When UK wins a championship based on what should be ineligible players, why do we even want to play the game anymore. (BTW this is not a plea to dissolve the program, just a little rant) Cal has been stripped of both FF runs, but yet is still out there slapping fair play in the face. It's disgusting, and wears on me tremendously. These are kids being prayed on by deviants and pushers. The coaches who run with these people are just as bad!

 

[BlueCurtain]

1-and-done's are the reasons we end up with UConn-Butler. Upsets happen in the tournament every year, but when you only have 1 or 2 elite teams -- statistically speaking, odds are against the best talent reaching the Final Four, and that kills ratings. UConn-Butler never would have happened 15 years ago, or even 10 years ago.

 

[cusetown1]

Or this demonstrates why the current system is stupid...why force a kid who has no interest in going to school to get an education to go play in the college ranks when he is really only interested in making a living playing ball. If you are good enough, why should you have to wait a year?

stupid or not, everybody should abide by the rules. The rules should also be enforced better by the NCAA or don't have the rules period.

 

[pfister1]

Because players like Noel, Melo, Durant, Lebron, etc are once in a lifetime type talents. If you open the floodgates and let anyone declare that is a huge mistake. Unless you are suggesting the NBA only let the top 5 prospects declare if they want? That'd also be stupid.

The problem was there were too many kids that weren't good enough that were being fed bad information and didn't get drafted. Then they couldn't go to college under scholarship either. This was more so to prevent that then to penalize the kids that were definitely ready for the NBA. If they are looking for the payday, they just need to go overseas for a year.

I respectfully believe that you are both wrong. Why is it a mistake to let anyone who wants to declare, declare? First, there is no inherent reason that being drafted has to make you ineligible to play college ball. The simple fact that you have been drafted or been eligible to be drafted does not have to make you a professional. That is an arbitrary line in the sand that has been drawn. Because the line has been drawn there, there have been many other things that players have been allowed to do at the time they declare that do have the effect of making them professionals e.g. taking money or benefits from an agent. But I think that is cause and effect. The cause being that declaring for the Draft has arbitrarily been deemed to end you amateur status. The effect being that guys that have declared now feel free to do things that are inconsistent with retaining their amateur status.

Second the one year college rule is not in place to protect student athletes. It is there to protect the NBA from having to pay lots of kids that they don't feel ready to evaluate properly yet. If Shabazz Muhammad were to decide to go pro, several teams would feel the need to use a pick on him because of the potential he has shown. It might be a well used pick in that he may be the next Kobe or Lebron or it may be a bad pick in that he may be the next Robert Swift. Forcing them to go to college for a year gives the NBA a year of relatively standardized competition where they can better evaluate these guys before investing huge sums of money in a bust.

 

[cusetown1]

I respectfully believe that you are both wrong. Why is it a mistake to let anyone who wants to declare, declare? First, there is no inherent reason that being drafted has to make you ineligible to play college ball. The simple fact that you have been drafted or been eligible to be drafted does not have to make you a professional. That is an arbitrary line in the sand that has been drawn. Because the line has been drawn there, there have been many other things that players have been allowed to do at the time they declare that do have the effect of making them professionals e.g. taking money or benefits from an agent. But I think that is cause and effect. The cause being that declaring for the Draft has arbitrarily been deemed to end you amateur status. The effect being that guys that have declared now feel free to do things that are inconsistent with retaining their amateur status.

Second the one year college rule is not in place to protect student athletes. It is there to protect the NBA from having to pay lots of kids that they don't feel ready to evaluate properly yet. If Shabazz Muhammad were to decide to go pro, several teams would feel the need to use a pick on him because of the potential he has shown. It might be a well used pick in that he may be the next Kobe or Lebron or it may be a bad pick in that he may be the next Robert Swift. Forcing them to go to college for a year gives the NBA a year of relatively standardized competition where they can better evaluate these guys before investing huge sums of money in a bust.

it also protects the older players in the NBA.

 

[Syracusian]

1-and-done's are the reasons we end up with UConn-Butler. Upsets happen in the tournament every year, but when you only have 1 or 2 elite teams -- statistically speaking, odds are against the best talent reaching the Final Four, and that kills ratings. UConn-Butler never would have happened 15 years ago, or even 10 years ago.

I think the size of NBA courts vs. NCAA courts might have something to do with this as well.

 

[jr4750]

My attention moves directly to tyler ennis. Perhaps nerlens was undeserving of the big head,li blame myself

So Jakes 50-50 the other day has moved in the wrong direction?

 

[cusetown1]

So Jakes 50-50 the other day has moved in the wrong direction?

at this point the direction looks like a maze.

 

[jordoo]

My question is that from what I have heard we have been refused to turn in other programs that have done this in the past. NC State, GT, UK, etc. We simply don't want to be a tattle tale. But if we are so clean, why not? If we recruit in this gray area, then we are just as bad. When UK wins a championship based on what should be ineligible players, why do we even want to play the game anymore. (BTW this is not a plea to dissolve the program, just a little rant) Cal has been stripped of both FF runs, but yet is still out there slapping fair play in the face. It's disgusting, and wears on me tremendously. These are kids being prayed on by deviants and pushers. The coaches who run with these people are just as bad!

It is pretty sad that Cal can basically "allow" cheating (if thats how they want to word it) at two different tchools to great success and leave them in shambles because of it while he moves on to do the same thing again. A school likeSU even if 100% clean (not saying we or any big time program is) isn't going to turn another school in about the most they would do is leak info and rumors to discreate contacts in the press perhaps why Thamal is talking about it today who knows. What does a big time program have to gain by being an out in the open whistle blower? Some but they have much more to lose by doing it.

 

[pfister1]

It doesn't really solve the problem anyway. Fine, the top 4 kids go straight to the NBA, that just means Cal and his buddy take #5 through #10 and offer up $200,000.

I don't think UK and others are out there bidding for these players. I think its the other way around, the players (or people around them) are making demands. If you want Shabazz to come to UK it will cost you $200k. I don't know if this gets associated with UK because UK is typically involved with the type of players in a position to make these kinds of demands (guys that can make a major impact in their freshman year) or because they are actually acceding to the demands and making a payment.

Most of the rumors you here are about the demand, not about the payment.

 

[Madbiker]

The NCAA is not set-up to deal with the new ways that coaches/programs cheat in recruiting. They are still centered on coaches/staff/boosters providing the illegal incentives and that is so ancient. It is all done through 3rd party agents and AAU advisors. It is set up through intermediaries so there is no direct trail back to the coach or staff. They'll never connect Cal. He probably doesn't even know who the go betweens are...just that it is being made to happen.

 

[pfister1]

it also protects the older players in the NBA.

Yeah good point, it does that as well.

 

[jordoo]

So Jakes 50-50 the other day has moved in the wrong direction?

Things can change quiclkly in recruiting and I don't think Jake has stated that since before Noel visited UK.

 

[jr4750]

Things can change quiclkly in recruiting and I don't think Jake has stated that since before Noel visited UK.

I could swear he wrote that quite recently as well as in the past, but you might be right in that NN just went there this past weekend.

 

[orangecuse]

Excellent high school baseball players get drafted by Major League teams all the time and it doesn't affect their NCAA status. Maybe the NCAA should adapt similar rules...

 

[pfister1]

Excellent high school baseball players get drafted by Major League teams all the time and it doesn't affect their NCAA status. Maybe the NCAA should adapt similar rules...

It think it would require the NCAA and NBA to change their way of thinking about it. Kids get drafted in the MLB draft without being worked out by scouts, attending combine like events etc.

If would force the NBA to draft with less information about a player then they typically have today. It would also force them to elect to use a draft pick on a player that might say no thanks, thought I would get drafted higher, I'll go to college.

 

[mark79]

We don't know that any of this is true. What we do know is that he came to our midnight madness, that he is good friends with MCW, that he chose to visit us first, and that we are the closest school to his family.

I'm not saying he definitely comes here, just saying that at least for me, I am not going to be swayed to and fro by the rumor of the day.

 

[Jake]

Not concerned all that much about the swirling rumors.

 

[orangecuse]

It think it would require the NCAA and NBA to change their way of thinking about it. Kids get drafted in the MLB draft without being worked out by scouts, attending combine like events etc.

If would force the NBA to draft with less information about a player then they typically have today. It would also force them to elect to use a draft pick on a player that might say no thanks, thought I would get drafted higher, I'll go to college.

Yeah, likely so, but at least it wouldn't leave a young kid out to dry and still have that option to go to school or continue on scholie.

 

[billsin01]

1-and-done's are the reasons we end up with UConn-Butler. Upsets happen in the tournament every year, but when you only have 1 or 2 elite teams -- statistically speaking, odds are against the best talent reaching the Final Four, and that kills ratings. UConn-Butler never would have happened 15 years ago, or even 10 years ago.

Eh, I don't buy this. This is one of those things that's easy to say and sounds good but strikes me as an oversimplification. I think there are plenty of factors. One is that some of the mid-majors have pretty good facilities, are on TV far more often than they were before and have found themselves good coaches who take advantage of technology in finding talented players. In other words, I'm not sure the gap between the big boys and the mid-majors is due to any one thing. I mean, if it was just one-and-dones than it would stand to reason the teams helped the most would be teams like seton hall or st johns or BC, etc. who are getting good talent but not as many one-and-done types.

You have good facilities, like Butler, can recruit in places other than your back yard (which may have been the case a bit more before the massive growth of the AAU circuit and the internet), have a good coach that you can keep around (few, stevens, shaka smart, etc) and you can compete.

 

[pfister1]

Yeah, likely so, but at least it wouldn't leave a young kid out to dry and still have that option to go to school or continue on scholie.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for doing it this way. I just don't think the NBA has any incentive at all to do it that way. And while I would think the NCAA would be in favor of it, there are a lot of issues where they don't seem to put the student athletes interests first...and this is one of those areas in my opinion.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Maybe Thamel coming out with this information now is a good thing. It may act as a deterrent, a sort of "bug zapper" around UK for Noel. Not every kid wants the type of negative spotlight associated with the questions that will start coming up. Plus, Nerlens seems like a good kid. Not so sure he wants to be lumped in with a controversy surrounding Shabazz Muhammed.

Stick with MCW, Nerlens. He's got your back.

 

[OttoMets]

Excellent high school baseball players get drafted by Major League teams all the time and it doesn't affect their NCAA status. Maybe the NCAA should adapt similar rules...

Agreed. I'd take it one step further: everyone's draft eligible, but if you matriculate, you stay for all four. Those who like their draft position after their senior year of high school can feel free to sign and forego college altogether.