GoT Season 8

AZOrange

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What was he supposed to do? He's lived his entire life believing he was only 'mortal.' Less than mortal, actually, as a bastard. He didn't have a dragon to ride to catch and stop Daeny. He trusted her. Swore an oath of fealty to her. And he doesn't lie. He meant it. Didn't he honestly believe that if the bells sounded, all would be spared? At what point was he supposed to do something different? If he was supposed to take the throne, without the passion to do so, and without the passion to continue to rule once he had it, how was he going to take it from Dany, the girl who doesn't die by fire? Who still had dragons? Can you just slit her throat? He is supposed to be able to do that? To his aunt? Before he knew she would go on a slaughter fit? When? And then... justify that treasonous murder how? With a tale told by his 'brother' and best friend?
Remember too that he was resurrected by the Lord of Light and as Beric pointed out you lose part of yourself in that process. To me Jon has been different since then. Maybe that’s just me
 

Cuseregular

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Too many viewers are confusing the brevity on-screen with the actual timeline. She didn't go mad overnight. She's been simmering through all of her losses for weeks/months.

She lost two dragons. Jorah died at her feet. She fell in love with Jon then lost him. Missandei died in the most brutal way just in front of her, and not for any reason—just a massive *F* you from her only real rival. And most of all, the thing she had been gearing up for for years—to finally rule the lands by birthright—was seized from her. She still wants that, and still can justify taking control back, 'by any means necessary,' if she still believes the world will still benefit from it. She basically said that even if there is massive carnage now, it's for the generations later.

Viewers rip the show for doing the obvious and then they rip it for not doing the obvious. I guess most thought Arya was going to kill Cersei. But, the torching of the city created a greater rationale for Arya. That's something. The Clergane Bowl was more epic than Obi Wan/Vader. That's something. The White Horse was beautiful. But, the millenials had to have their millenial fun and meme it out: "Bran ordered Arya an Uber." . It's a story.

We've been treated to, what, five epic battles now? And all of them have been bigger and better than anything ever in the history of tv or cinema. And people whine. The language and dialog is better than anything since The Lion in Winter (1968, an Academy Award winner), and they do it 6-12 times a year, while covering vastly more characters, plotlines, history, and scope.

Like anyone else, i have my lists of expectations and predictions. I've been massively wrong on most, and i do believe some of them would have been better than what actualized. But, all of that ignores what does happen on screen, and it is still an insanely spectacular program. And the filmmaking is so good, almost effortlessly so, that people take it for granted. You can look at any five seconds of screen time, break it down into what was required to accomplish it production-wise, and you should marvel at it.
can I get an AMEN!
 

HRE Otto IV

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Too many viewers are confusing the brevity on-screen with the actual timeline. She didn't go mad overnight. She's been simmering through all of her losses for weeks/months.

She lost two dragons. Jorah died at her feet. She fell in love with Jon then lost him. Missandei died in the most brutal way just in front of her, and not for any reason—just a massive *F* you from her only real rival. And most of all, the thing she had been gearing up for for years—to finally rule the lands by birthright—was seized from her. She still wants that, and still can justify taking control back, 'by any means necessary,' if she still believes the world will still benefit from it. She basically said that even if there is massive carnage now, it's for the generations later.

Viewers rip the show for doing the obvious and then they rip it for not doing the obvious. I guess most thought Arya was going to kill Cersei. But, the torching of the city created a greater rationale for Arya. That's something. The Clergane Bowl was more epic than Obi Wan/Vader. That's something. The White Horse was beautiful. But, the millenials had to have their millenial fun and meme it out: "Bran ordered Arya an Uber." . It's a story.

We've been treated to, what, five epic battles now? And all of them have been bigger and better than anything ever in the history of tv or cinema. And people whine. The language and dialog is better than anything since The Lion in Winter (1968, an Academy Award winner), and they do it 6-12 times a year, while covering vastly more characters, plotlines, history, and scope.

Like anyone else, i have my lists of expectations and predictions. I've been massively wrong on most, and i do believe some of them would have been better than what actualized. But, all of that ignores what does happen on screen, and it is still an insanely spectacular program. And the filmmaking is so good, almost effortlessly so, that people take it for granted. You can look at any five seconds of screen time, break it down into what was required to accomplish it production-wise, and you should marvel at it.
Where is the consistency in the battles?

They made it seem like a half dozen Dothraki survived Winterfell yet they were numerous in Kings Landing.

They made it seem like the army of the dead overran the living and right before the few survivors perished they were saved by Arya. Yet last night Dany had a huge army.

Euron took down a dragon with ease. It looked like Cersei with a larger army and the scorpions had won. Yet a few days later they might as well have been throwing rocks.

It is a fantasy world so the laws of our world shouldn’t be expected to apply. But there needs to be some logic and consistency instead of laziness from the writers.
 

Trueblue25

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This is 100 percent on Jon snow as he , not being of insane mind , had the responsibility to step up and exert his claim to the throne even if he didn’t want it .. it was his duty

But he , in the greatest example of being P whipped since John Lennon, did jack squat ..
She saved the north and he vowed to her he’d help her in exchange.
 

Trueblue25

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Where is the consistency in the battles?

They made it seem like a half dozen Dothraki survived Winterfell yet they were numerous in Kings Landing.

They made it seem like the army of the dead overran the living and right before the few survivors perished they were saved by Arya. Yet last night Dany had a huge army.

Euron took down a dragon with ease. It looked like Cersei with a larger army and the scorpions had won. Yet a few days later they might as well have been throwing rocks.

It is a fantasy world so the laws of our world shouldn’t be expected to apply. But there needs to be some logic and consistency instead of laziness from the writers.
A fraction of the dorthraki/unsullied remained in the south during the battle of winterfel. The vale only sent about 10% of its forces to winterfel. The north maybe have had a couple hundred survivors. We didnt see the archers quarters, or most of the keep after the battle only where the main characters made stands. Also id imagine more southern keeps of the north like White Harbor would still have men to offer.

Rhaegal was leisurely floating towards dragonstone when a small detachment of ironborn picked him off. Drogon was diving in and out of the sky like an F16 knowing what he was up against
 

Zelda Zonk

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Where is the consistency in the battles?

They made it seem like a half dozen Dothraki survived Winterfell yet they were numerous in Kings Landing.

They made it seem like the army of the dead overran the living and right before the few survivors perished they were saved by Arya. Yet last night Dany had a huge army.

Euron took down a dragon with ease. It looked like Cersei with a larger army and the scorpions had won. Yet a few days later they might as well have been throwing rocks.

It is a fantasy world so the laws of our world shouldn’t be expected to apply. But there needs to be some logic and consistency instead of laziness from the writers.
Consistency? Each battle was a very different thing.

Dothraki. They only showed the first legions to fight as being Dothraki. We prolly shouldn't assume that all the Dothraki were in that first contingent. Also, we were only shown the frontal assault, and maybe we should assume there were Dothraki on other sides? I think it would have been odd to sacrifice all of the Dothraki as the first 'troops' to have to go hand-to-hand with the dead. I don't know. I just don't need to use these types of details to distract me. We don't see everything that ostensibly must happen. The battle plans we saw the night before had fortifications on all sides of Winterfell, didn't it? I'm assuming, but not remembering if they detailed who made up which forces.

Euron. Euron had the element of surprise with the first Scorpion attack. When Daeny attacked this time, she came out of the sun and Euron's visibility was compromised until it was too late. Also, i'm not sure, but we saw the Scorpions rotating on turrets, but were they able to point nearly skyward/vertically? Different attack trajectory? She also flew between them, so crossfire misses were an issue for them.

It's amazing that so many people consider the writing to be "lazy." Only among people who have never written anything, i'm guessing. It's very easy to rant about what wasn't there, or what you wanted to happen, but what actually was on screen is still the new standard as far as television programming is concerned. What has been better? What they did do has been a monumental accomplishment. Look at every two episodes as one feature motion picture, and you should still be impressed.
 

HRE Otto IV

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Consistency? Each battle was a very different thing.

Dothraki. They only showed the first legions to fight as being Dothraki. We prolly shouldn't assume that all the Dothraki were in that first contingent. Also, we were only shown the frontal assault, and maybe we should assume there were Dothraki on other sides? I think it would have been odd to sacrifice all of the Dothraki as the first 'troops' to have to go hand-to-hand with the dead. I don't know. I just don't need to use these types of details to distract me. We don't see everything that ostensibly must happen. The battle plans we saw the night before had fortifications on all sides of Winterfell, didn't it? I'm assuming, but not remembering if they detailed who made up which forces.

Euron. Euron had the element of surprise with the first Scorpion attack. When Daeny attacked this time, she came out of the sun and Euron's visibility was compromised until it was too late. Also, i'm not sure, but we saw the Scorpions rotating on turrets, but were they able to point nearly skyward/vertically? Different attack trajectory? She also flew between them, so crossfire misses were an issue for them.

It's amazing that so many people consider the writing to be "lazy." Only among people who have never written anything, i'm guessing. It's very easy to rant about what wasn't there, or what you wanted to happen, but what actually was on screen is still the new standard as far as television programming is concerned. What has been better? What they did do has been a monumental accomplishment. Look at every two episodes as one feature motion picture, and you should still be impressed.
I can easily disagree with everything you wrote but it is not worth my time.

Lazy as in a lack of attention to detail. There was a Starbucks cup on set for God’s sake. The overall story is grand but they have lazy with inconsistencies.
 

Ozcuse

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I can easily disagree with everything you wrote but it is not worth my time.

Lazy as in a lack of attention to detail. There was a Starbucks cup on set for God’s sake. The overall story is grand but they have lazy with inconsistencies.
They’ve also shown they can do much better with the writing in earlier seasons. It’s not like we are bitching about nothing- we have their own precedent to compare against.

The only thing they’ve gotten better at is the battles because of a larger budget and a longer timeline between seasons to shoot the scenes.
 

Zelda Zonk

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I can easily disagree with everything you wrote but it is not worth my time.

Lazy as in a lack of attention to detail. There was a Starbucks cup on set for God’s sake. The overall story is grand but they have lazy with inconsistencies.
Well, laziness from the writers would have zero to do with a coffee cup in a scene. But whatever. Amazing how everything they’ve done can be invalidated by that one error. One. Yeah they missed that. Against every other detail they did get right... The “attention to detail” in that show is unprecedented. Far beyond anything to ever come before it. But sure.
 

DeGrozz

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Consistency? Each battle was a very different thing.

Dothraki. They only showed the first legions to fight as being Dothraki. We prolly shouldn't assume that all the Dothraki were in that first contingent. Also, we were only shown the frontal assault, and maybe we should assume there were Dothraki on other sides? I think it would have been odd to sacrifice all of the Dothraki as the first 'troops' to have to go hand-to-hand with the dead. I don't know. I just don't need to use these types of details to distract me. We don't see everything that ostensibly must happen. The battle plans we saw the night before had fortifications on all sides of Winterfell, didn't it? I'm assuming, but not remembering if they detailed who made up which forces.

Euron. Euron had the element of surprise with the first Scorpion attack. When Daeny attacked this time, she came out of the sun and Euron's visibility was compromised until it was too late. Also, i'm not sure, but we saw the Scorpions rotating on turrets, but were they able to point nearly skyward/vertically? Different attack trajectory? She also flew between them, so crossfire misses were an issue for them.

It's amazing that so many people consider the writing to be "lazy." Only among people who have never written anything, i'm guessing. It's very easy to rant about what wasn't there, or what you wanted to happen, but what actually was on screen is still the new standard as far as television programming is concerned. What has been better? What they did do has been a monumental accomplishment. Look at every two episodes as one feature motion picture, and you should still be impressed.
The writers said that Dany was surprised by the iron fleet because she “forgot” about them. How is that not terribly lazy writing?



On a side note - whoever is doing the music is awesome. They are setting a standard there.
 

Zelda Zonk

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Aaron Rodgers has a cameo last night?

Completely missed it.
Me, too. I was looking. Even looked for a replay clip of it, but i haven't found one that definitively shows him.
 

Zelda Zonk

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They’ve also shown they can do much better with the writing in earlier seasons. It’s not like we are bitching about nothing- we have their own precedent to compare against.

The only thing they’ve gotten better at is the battles because of a larger budget and a longer timeline between seasons to shoot the scenes.
The stakes are higher now. And they really can't win. People bitch about them having "hollywood moments," and then they bitch when some of the matters are resolved without enough fanfare and bombast.

I was a bit unsatisfied with Cersei's demise, but i understand why it couldn't come by Arya. And it actually goes back to multiple reference points in the show from the beginning, where Jaimie talks about how he wants to die, etc. And how they came into the world together, in the same womb. Which is kinda fitting, that they died in the same 'womb' of the tower or whatever. That matter of the baby's paternity is a question i still have, but i don't see a reason why that will come up in the next episode.
 

Zelda Zonk

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View attachment 162912

Thanks, but i still don't get it. Don't they look like different costumes than what he's wearing in the 'backstage' still? And where's the beard/scruff?
 

PhatOrange

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I can easily disagree with everything you wrote but it is not worth my time.

Lazy as in a lack of attention to detail. There was a Starbucks cup on set for God’s sake. The overall story is grand but they have lazy with inconsistencies.
Agreed it's lazy in the lack of attention to detail. (and i don't even care about the starbucks cup as I didn't notice it). That's been a big bummer for me because the attention to detail in earlier seasons was spot on and a big part of the awesomeness of the show to begin with.
 
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PhatOrange

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There was a fantastic piece of cinematography that was really artistic and incredibly cool. It was a shot of Arya rising from the ash, it's essentially a black and white piece with these golden hues from the fires. I thought it was super cool. I believe it was a second or two before and part of this still.

163021
 

Fly Rodder

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Agreed it's lazy in the lack of attention to detail. (and i don't even care about the starbucks cup as I didn't notice it). That's been a big bummer for me because the attention to detail in earlier seasons was spot on and a big part of the awesomeness of the show to begin with.
There's only so much that they can do. They've essentially made 40 films in eight years. GRRM couldn't even keep up the details from the first three books. He lost the plot and got himself overextended to the point where I think he's lost interest in the whole world. And he created the whole thing. Dance w/ Dragons was pretty subpar compared to GoT and ACoKs. Winds of Winter isn't complete eight years later and he hasn't even started Spring.

As much as I disliked the battle for Winterfell episode and some of writing for convenience, I thought this one was exceptionally well done for what it is and I've made peace with myself for the series. This was incredibly ambitious TV and they did a helluva job even getting it this far. Hindsight is always 20/20.
 

DeGrozz

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There's only so much that they can do. They've essentially made 40 films in eight years. GRRM couldn't even keep up the details from the first three books. He lost the plot and got himself overextended to the point where I think he's lost interest in the whole world. And he created the whole thing. Dance w/ Dragons was pretty subpar compared to GoT and ACoKs. Winds of Winter isn't complete eight years later and he hasn't even started Spring.

As much as I disliked the battle for Winterfell episode and some of writing for convenience, I thought this one was exceptionally well done for what it is and I've made peace with myself for the series. This was incredibly ambitious TV and they did a helluva job even getting it this far. Hindsight is always 20/20.
I don’t think he’s lost interest in the world. He’s done the show and other books about the world in the last eight years. It’s just not his only interest and he has admitted he’s having a lot of trouble getting winds to where he wants it to be.
 

Alsacs

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The Mountain was harder to kill than the Night King.
While we all like the show. This last season hasn’t been up to par with the rest of the series. It’s just all being bowtied to an ending.
The showrunners has 2 years the story is being wrapped up but it’s not the same quality. Dany could have gone mad, Cersei and Jaime died together, and Clegene bowl but the story has been poor.
 

Fly Rodder

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I don’t think he’s lost interest in the world. He’s done the show and other books about the world in the last eight years. It’s just not his only interest and he has admitted he’s having a lot of trouble getting winds to where he wants it to be.
The Mountain was harder to kill than the Night King.
While we all like the show. This last season hasn’t been up to par with the rest of the series. It’s just all being bowtied to an ending.
The showrunners has 2 years the story is being wrapped up but it’s not the same quality. Dany could have gone mad, Cersei and Jaime died together, and Clegene bowl but the story has been poor.
The Nightking only needed everyone in the north, two dragons, and three armies to distract him so a young woman who spent eight years training to be ninja could get close enough to kill him with a rare dagger. Super easy. Osama bin Laden was easy to kill, too - only took one bullet to the face.

The story is better than what GRRM has written for the ending.

World was the wrong word, but this portion of it has become something he really doesn't want to deal with. He wrote the first three books over six-ish years. The next two books took five and six years. This one is onto eight+ years and the next hasn't even been started. So essentially, the show writers took on the problems that Martin wrote himself into, and has been beating his head against the wall over for nearly two decades plus. It's unfortunate that the TV writers didn't fix his mess in a more satisfactory way with their three year time limit while dealing with all of the head aches of a $200m budget, 600 employees, and all of their actors' schedules, but they did something. All GRRM has to deal with is himself and his idea of where he wants this thing to go.

They had an near impossible task and they did it and it's entertaining, but not perfect. I've made my peace with it.
 

Zelda Zonk

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There was a fantastic piece of cinematography that was really artistic and incredibly cool. It was a shot of Arya rising from the ash, it's essentially a black and white piece with these golden hues from the fires. I thought it was super cool. I believe it was a second or two before and part of this still.

View attachment 163021
Yeah, that was haunting. Reminded me a little too much of 9-11.
 

Zelda Zonk

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The Nightking only needed everyone in the north, two dragons, and three armies to distract him so a young woman who spent eight years training to be ninja could get close enough to kill him with a rare dagger. Super easy. Osama bin Laden was easy to kill, too - only took one bullet to the face.

The story is better than what GRRM has written for the ending.

World was the wrong word, but this portion of it has become something he really doesn't want to deal with. He wrote the first three books over six-ish years. The next two books took five and six years. This one is onto eight+ years and the next hasn't even been started. So essentially, the show writers took on the problems that Martin wrote himself into, and has been beating his head against the wall over for nearly two decades plus. It's unfortunate that the TV writers didn't fix his mess in a more satisfactory way with their three year time limit while dealing with all of the head aches of a $200m budget, 600 employees, and all of their actors' schedules, but they did something. All GRRM has to deal with is himself and his idea of where he wants this thing to go.

They had an near impossible task and they did it and it's entertaining, but not perfect. I've made my peace with it.
That's an informed perspective. People outside of 'the industry' need to recognize the difficulties in adapting books to film. There are a metric ton of novels that have been optioned toward making tv shows or films from, but they have since been deemed 'unadaptable.' Westworld was one that actually saw the light of day, and we can argue about whether that has been successful or not. Yeah, Martin churned out books early, but there are a good number of reasons why he hadn't finished this series. For the showrunners to do it is pretty remarkable.

Anyway, this show remains the best of all time. And the complaints seem too often like, 'Okay i won the lottery, but you deducted a wire transfer fee? Foul!'
 

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