Gotta say Kaiser is right about the CFB playoffs the Big XII is in trouble

[HOFCeluck]

It's inevitable that we're expanding to eight. Why should ND join a conference? Why not just wait it out?

 

[TheCusian]

I asked b4 and didn't get an answer. Why is a one loss ND at a disadvantage to a one loss p5 team that wins a conference title? What if that conference stunk and ND played a high quality schedule? That P5 team should get in ahead of them anyway? If that's the case then why don't they just give automatic qualifiers to P5 conference champions? The irony of saying that ND should join the ACC to improve their F4 prospects is that some of the same people criticize the strength of ND's schedule this year. That schedule might be stronger if they didn't have five games against the weakest P5 conference.

12 > 11

And that 12th game is almost always against a superior team that year. ND has to schedule 6 games and hope they are good enough when they play them. Conference championships provide an almost guaranteed SOS upgrade.

And like Alsacs said - they said conf championships mean something. Then they followed it up by putting a 1 loss conf champion in over a 2 1 loss teams that didn't play in the conference championship.

 

[KaiserUEO]

http://www.collegefootballplayoff.com/selection-committee-protocol

When circumstances at the margins indicate that teams are comparable, then the following criteria must be considered:

• Championships won
• Strength of schedule
• Head-to-head competition (if it occurred)
• Comparative outcomes of common opponents (without incenting margin of victory)

CFB committees only protocol says Championships won. If a 1 loss ND vs. 1 loss P5 champion are close to even that conference title is the tiebreaker. It comes right from their own mouth. ND is gambling at 11-1 almost every year.

bingo.

so why is nobody listening to me when i say a 1 loss utah team could be making the leap into the F4??

unless there is a 0 loss bevo...who i say should and would be jumped (most certainly a 1 loss team would)...if the top 3 hold serve...the pac12 1 loss champ is #4.

 

[PhatOrange]

does the NCAA want more conference expansions and realignments?

 

[KaiserUEO]

does the NCAA want more conference expansions and realignments?

they have no say in the matter.

 

[Alsacs]

bingo.

so why is nobody listening to me when i say a 1 loss utah team could be making the leap into the F4??

unless there is a 0 loss bevo...who i say should and would be jumped (most certainly a 1 loss team would)...if the top 3 hold serve...the pac12 1 loss champ is #4.

I never said no to Utah. If Utah beats UCLA, Colorado, Stanford they are getting in.
Utah is 10th right now and one of Ohio State/Iowa, Stanford, Oklahoma State/Baylor would all have to lose and they would jump LSU.
12-1 Utah would get in over 11-1 Notre Dame.

 

[PhatOrange]

they have no say in the matter.

who ever is voting on the playoff teams I guess is what i meant. The Bevo is obviously going to be forced to expand.

 

[bpo57]

http://www.collegefootballplayoff.com/selection-committee-protocol

When circumstances at the margins indicate that teams are comparable, then the following criteria must be considered:

• Championships won
• Strength of schedule
• Head-to-head competition (if it occurred)
• Comparative outcomes of common opponents (without incenting margin of victory)

CFB committees only protocol says Championships won. If a 1 loss ND vs. 1 loss P5 champion are close to even that conference title is the tiebreaker. It comes right from their own mouth. ND is gambling at 11-1 almost every year.

Several other factors to be considered:

"When circumstances at the margins indicate that teams are comparable..."

"Strength of Schedule"

"Comparative Outcomes:

Plenty of wiggle room to drive an 18 wheeler through.

 

[TheCusian]

I think that the younger fans do. This is more than football at issue here. ND uses its independent football team to market the university all over the country. ND's unique status allows it to do that. Jack Swarbrick has recently mentioned that several times. ND uses the football team for marketing the school itself for non-athlete students and for other goals than football. The past is the past. It has nothing to do with the future. Under Kelly, ND was 12-0 and in the championship game in 2012 and is 8-1 and ranked #4 right now. Those numbers are more relevant than yours for the future. Besides, if you are right, then why in the hell would ND give up its identity and tradition as a football independent for something (playoffs) that it rarely will have a shot at anyway? Didn't you just defeat your own argument for ND joining a football conference?

1. Marketing the team wouldn't stop due to inclusion into the ACC. Do you think ND will have a harder time pulling students nationally due to being tied to a geographic football conference that they are already in for all the other sports?

2. I laugh at the notion that joining a conference would diminish your identity. That's a made up fable read to kids at night.

3. That the chances are so slim to even make it there at all bolsters my argument. Why write off 1 loss seasons when you could still win it all? Think Ohio State feels bad about playing their way to a National Championship? Put yourself in their shoes last year - 1 loss, but no conf championship game. No National Championships.

4. Being in the playoff would be better marketing, better for recruiting, would be more money and exposure than being independent and playing in a random major bowl.

 

[KaiserUEO]

who ever is voting on the playoff teams I guess is what i meant. The Bevo is obviously going to be forced to expand.

yes.

that is what i began saying last year, have continued beat the drum this year and which got started this unruly thread that unfortunetly morphed into a nd pissing match.

cause theyre Fd too.

(stands up and waits for the arrows)

 

[TheCusian]

It's inevitable that we're expanding to eight. Why should ND join a conference? Why not just wait it out?

Yep. To me this is the best argument.

Although, if there are auto-bids - I'd rather play my way in officially by winning my conf championship.

 

[TheCusian]

yes. that is what i began saying last year, have continued beat the drum this year and started this unruly thread that unfortunetly morphed into a nd pissing match. cause theyre Fd too. (stands up and waits for the arrows)

Yep. And if they expand and add a conf championship? More pressure on ND.

 

[Alsacs]

yes.

that is what i began saying last year, have continued beat the drum this year and started this unruly thread that unfortunetly morphed into a nd pissing match.

cause theyre Fd too.

(stands up and waits for the arrows)

Houston has a top 25 recruiting class and if they pony up the money to keep Herman them and Memphis fit right into Big XII.

BYU will never get into a P5 till they change the Sunday thing and Big XII will realize its needs the CCG. Cincinnati/UConn remain in the AAC watered down more.

 

[HOFCeluck]

/UConn remain in the AAC watered down more.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Yep. And if they expand and add a conf championship? More pressure on ND.

yep.

if all 5 P5s have a conf champ game...even undefeated nd would have a tough time cracking the F4 with 4 1 loss champions in the mix.

but weve been told, they dont care about championships though, so good for them.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Houston has a top 25 recruiting class and if they pony up the money to keep Herman them and Memphis fit right into Big XII.

BYU will never get into a P5 till they change the Sunday thing and Big XII will realize its needs the CCG. Cincinnati/UConn remain in the AAC watered down more.

agree.

byu is on the outside.

but i think cincy is a pretty attractive candidate when compared to houston/memphis.

that 5th team you mentioned, well...i sorta remember them, but i dont have time to google why.

 

[TheCusian]

yep. if all 5 P5s have a conf champ game...even undefeated nd would have a tough time cracking the F4 with 4 1 loss champions in the mix. but weve been told, they dont care about championships though, so good for them.

Hey, at least their identity will be intact. Almost as good as a national championship. I think.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Hey, at least their identity will be intact. Almost as good as a national championship. I think.

we can send them a nice participation trophy.

 

[TerryD]

1. Marketing the team wouldn't stop due to inclusion into the ACC. Do you think ND will have a harder time pulling students nationally due to being tied to a geographic football conference that they are already in for all the other sports?

2. I laugh at the notion that joining a conference would diminish your identity. That's a made up fable read to kids at night.

3. That the chances are so slim to even make it there at all bolsters my argument. Why write off 1 loss seasons when you could still win it all? Think Ohio State feels bad about playing their way to a National Championship? Put yourself in their shoes last year - 1 loss, but no conf championship game. No National Championships.

4. Being in the playoff would be better marketing, better for recruiting, would be more money and exposure than being independent and playing in a random major bowl.

Penn State is my Exhibit "A". Even before Sandusky, I think that their brand was diminished when it joined the Big Ten.

 

[TerryD]

Hey, at least their identity will be intact. Almost as good as a national championship. I think.

Why not go undefeated and have both, plus a high grad rate? That is what ND is shooting for, winning a championship and staying independent. Why take the easy way out?

 

[TheCusian]

Penn State is my Exhibit "A". Even before Sandusky, I think that their brand was diminished when it joined the Big Ten.

I don't think that at all.

 

[sabach]

1. Marketing the team wouldn't stop due to inclusion into the ACC. Do you think ND will have a harder time pulling students nationally due to being tied to a geographic football conference that they are already in for all the other sports?

2. I laugh at the notion that joining a conference would diminish your identity. That's a made up fable read to kids at night.

3. That the chances are so slim to even make it there at all bolsters my argument. Why write off 1 loss seasons when you could still win it all? Think Ohio State feels bad about playing their way to a National Championship? Put yourself in their shoes last year - 1 loss, but no conf championship game. No National Championships.

4. Being in the playoff would be better marketing, better for recruiting, would be more money and exposure than being independent and playing in a random major bowl.

I think the SU basketball brand lost some identity when they joined the ACC if for no other reason than (1) we were the Big East and we will never be the ACC with Duke and UNC there, (2) we gave up our eastern rivals (Georgetown and UConn), (3) we gave up the Big East Tournament in NYC for a nondescript wine and cheese party in Greensboro. JB himself was against the move to the ACC in part for these very reasons. I understand why we joined the ACC but to state that a conference change does not result in a diminished identity is not correct. ND will lose some identity if they join a conference, unlike SU though, they can afford stay where they are for now.

 

[TheCusian]

Why not go undefeated and have both, plus a high grad rate? That is what ND is shooting for, winning a championship and staying independent. Why take the easy way out?

I don't know - seems like saying "if we're not a top 5 seed in the NCAA tourney, we're okay with not playing. I'd want my team to maximize it's chances at making it.

Grad rate? Why wouldn't it be as high in the ACC?

 

[sabach]

I don't think that at all.

Penn State was eastern football before they joined the Big Ten. Now, they are in a Midwest conference and will always be seen as subordinate to Michigan and Ohio State. Maryland is going to have the same problem.

 

[TheCusian]

I think the SU basketball brand lost some identity when they joined the ACC if for no other reason than (1) we were the Big East and we will never be the ACC with Duke and UNC there, (2) we gave up our eastern rivals (Georgetown and UConn), (3) we gave up the Big East Tournament in NYC for a nondescript wine and cheese party in Greensboro. JB himself was against the move to the ACC in part for these very reasons. I understand why we joined the ACC but to state that a conference change does not result in a diminished identity is not correct. ND will lose some identity if they join a conference, unlike SU though, they can afford stay where they are for now.

Penn State was eastern football before they joined the Big Ten. Now, they are in a Midwest conference and will always be seen as subordinate to Michigan and Ohio State. Maryland is going to have the same problem.

Ahhh! I got it. ND fans don't want to look at the end of the season and see that they are not on the top rung of the conference rankings? Independence is saying "we're number one in our own conference" ...