Gottlieb on SU’s current situation.

[AZOrange]

I took it as people don’t want to play on a team with two coach’s sons. And it is fairly noteworthy that Jimmy coming in was the worst kept secret and literally every forward in the program with remaining eligibility decided to leave.

This after literally every scholarship guard, (besides Buddy’s friend Girard) that’s been here since since Buddy arrived has transferred out.

At some point it’s not a coincidence. And that’s not even touching on many of the legitimate observations made by outsiders looking in.

The only legitimate observation about JB and recruiting is the one that started about 10-15 years ago. Which is “if you want to play….you better be Carmelo”. Otherwise get rotation minutes elsewhere. This negative recruiting goes way beyond Buddy.

Jimmy is irrelevant. Q left before Jimmy…and we got another forward to come in with Jimmy…

 

[AZOrange]

Also the only guard that came in was Symir. Friend from aau ball.

it’s not a coincidence, should add as well, it’s not Buddy’s fault.

it just is what it is and... Gottlieb confirmed what some of us thought outsiders looking in we’re thinking...Jimmy coming on board and the starting PG debacle simply has hurt this perception of this program to recruits whether folks here like it or not and whether it’s fair or not.

My point is that perception started long before his kids stepped on campus. There’s a reason we don’t fill rosters too and it ain’t Buddy or Jimmy.

 

[djcon57]

The “recruit against us” philosophy existed long before Buddy got here. JBs rotations have gotten killed in recruiting circles for years. Long before Buddy. And they have a backup 2 guard…we are missing a PG…well he plays at Seton Hall…

How are we able to have 3 viable centers on the team then?

I'm sure its all coincidence.

 

[AZOrange]

How are we able to have 3 viable centers on the team then?

I'm sure its all coincidence.

We do? We have 1 that was a flyer from Europe, a late late signee and a guy in his 45th year with bad knees. Frank was probably the most “highly rated” but none were big gets…

 

[djcon57]

We do? We have 1 that was a flyer from Europe, a late late signee and a guy in his 45th year with bad knees. Frank was probably the most “highly rated” but none were big gets…

Yeah...You're moving the goalposts. I'm never said anything about highly rated or even rated at all. I'm saying we literally don't have a 4th guard and we haven't been able to land a SG for 3 years now.

On the other hand, we've been able to bring in 3 (or 4 if you include JBA) centers.

 

[AZOrange]

Yeah...You're moving the goalposts. I'm never said anything about highly rated or even rated at all. I'm saying we literally don't have a 4th guard and we haven't been able to land a SG for 3 years now.

On the other hand, we've been able to bring in 3 (or 4 if you include JBA) centers.

Not moving anything. How many legit guards did we have when Tyus was here? Shoot one year we got down to 2….

Roster management issues by JB predate his kids.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Not moving anything. How many legit guards did we have when Tyus was here? Shoot one year we got down to 2….

Roster management issues by JB predate his kids.

This started in 13-14 when we started 25-0. JB has regularly run his starters into the ground starting with that season.

If you look at our 30 win season in 12-13 Triche, MCW and Fair maxed at about 35 minutes and Southerland was below 30. We played 9 guys when Coleman was healthy.

 

[AZOrange]

This started in 13-14 when we started 25-0. JB has regularly run his starters into the ground starting with that season.

If you look at our 30 win season in 12-13 Triche, MCW and Fair maxed at about 35 minutes and Southerland was below 30. We played 9 guys when Coleman was healthy.

Yep. Even before that it started. Pretty sure the 09-10 team was thin…I recall KJO and Scoop were really the only bench…

In fact the MCW backup year was really the anomaly. Flynn, scoop, Devo, Andy, triche all played on rosters with basically 3 guards

 

[brian williams]

Yep. Even before that it started. Pretty sure the 09-10 team was thin…I recall KJO and Scoop were really the only bench…

And weren’t they both 6th man of the year? What a big talent difference.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yep. Even before that it started. Pretty sure the 09-10 team was thin…I recall KJO and Scoop were really the only bench…

In fact the MCW backup year was really the anomaly. Flynn, scoop, Devo, Andy, triche all played on rosters with basically 3 guards

I won’t fault him for anything prior to 2013-14. 7 guys like that team had is enough. Most teams don’t play more than 8.

Leonard Hamilton is someone IMO who plays too many guys and it costs him games because he doesn’t play his most talented guys enough. We just need better players especially at the point guard position.

 

[Alsacs]

How are we able to have 3 viable centers on the team then?

I'm sure its all coincidence.

That is such a bleeping strawman you were responding too.

Its infruriating.

We were down to 2 guards in 2018 because Thorpe quit and Washington got a medical scare.

That was also galaxtically stupid.

Why were the minutes even when the 3 guards were Triche, Waiters and Scoop?

The minutes weren’t even when the 3 guards were Richmond, Girard and Boeheim.

Someone please give a reason why?

 

[AZOrange]

I won’t fault him for anything prior to 2013-14. 7 guys like that team had is enough. Most teams don’t play more than 8.

Leonard Hamilton is someone IMO who plays too many guys and it costs him games because he doesn’t play his most talented guys enough. We just need better players especially at the point guard position.

Yeah if the talent is there who cares? But the table was set on limited recruiting a long time ago. People are not separating this from the point.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Kind of shallow analysis IMO. We have been recruited against for years. No one didn’t come here because of Jimmy. That’s absurd he was a transfer

We don't know that. We have no idea what the portal would have granted us if he wasn't coming. We also don't know who might have stayed had Jimmy3 wasn't coming. And they all knew he was coming.

 

[Orangefizz]

we haven’t got a backup shooting guard in 3 years now.

Unless you think that’s by choice, which is worse

Chaz Owens is our scholarship backup SG. That actually says a lot about JB not wanting to develop any competition for Buddy

 

[djcon57]

Not moving anything. How many legit guards did we have when Tyus was here? Shoot one year we got down to 2….

Roster management issues by JB predate his kids.

Fair enough I get what you are saying.

I'm saying IMO there's a difference between actual recruited star ranked players like Ron Patterson, Mookie Jones, Howard Washington, etc (even thought they didnt pan out) and kids like Chaz and Paddy. These arent D1 players. They are walk ons.

 

[Bayside44]

That is such a bleeping strawman you were responding too.

Its infruriating.

We were down to 2 guards in 2018 because Thorpe quit and Washington got a medical scare.

That was also galaxtically stupid.

Why were the minutes even when the 3 guards were Triche, Waiters and Scoop?

The minutes weren’t even when the 3 guards were Richmond, Girard and Boeheim.

Someone please give a reason why?

KR is getting the same exact minutes at his new place. Maybe that’s what he is.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

KR is getting the same exact minutes at his new place. Maybe that’s what he is.

Maybe he’s just playing behind guys who are actually better than he is.

 

[Alsacs]

KR is getting the same exact minutes at his new place. Maybe that’s what he is.

That doesn’t answer my question.

Why when we had Triche, Waiters, and Jardine the minutes wete evenly dished out.

When we had Richmond, Boeheim, and Girard the minutes were not evenly dished out.

Waiters was better than any of those 6 players his minutes weren’t like Boeheim’s vs. Girard and Richmond.

That is the point. There is no argument otherwise either. Dion should have played as much as Buddy per game. Why didn’t he.
The answer is?

 

[Bayside44]

Maybe he’s just playing behind guys who are actually better than he is.

He started last night and looked awful from what little I saw. Besides a big game against UConn he's been pretty generic. Which is on him, kid has a lot of talent.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

He started last night and looked awful from what little I saw. Besides a big game against UConn he's been pretty generic. Which is on him, kid has a lot of talent.

FWIW, since UConn a few weeks ago, he's
3-9 vs Depaul
3-8 vs Marquette
3-19 vs St Johns
0-8 vs St Johns

Hot & cold.

 

[Bayside44]

That doesn’t answer my question.

Why when we had Triche, Waiters, and Jardine the minutes wete evenly dished out.

When we had Richmond, Boeheim, and Girard the minutes were not evenly dished out.

Waiters was better than any of those 6 players his minutes weren’t like Boeheim’s vs. Girard and Richmond.

That is the point. There is no argument otherwise either. Dion should have played as much as Buddy per game. Why didn’t he.
The answer is?

At the end of the season and NCAA he was late 20s in his minutes and high value minutes. I really don't get the argument, one more TV time out?

His new coach seems to see it the same way, except they don't have a bike on the sidelines. Looks like he needs it.

 

[Bayside44]

FWIW, since UConn a few weeks ago, he's
3-9 vs Depaul
3-8 vs Marquette
3-19 vs St Johns
0-8 vs St Johns

Hot & cold.

You'd think JB had Magic Johnson tethered to the bench last season.

 

[Scooch]

He started last night and looked awful from what little I saw. Besides a big game against UConn he's been pretty generic. Which is on him, kid has a lot of talent.

Boeheim has a decades-long history of getting the best out of players who have... ummm... let's call it issues. So it never surprises me that guys who leave don't set the world on fire at their next stop. But, that also doesn't mean that they couldn't have been important pieces at SU had they stayed.

Unfortunately I suspect the same reasons why JB gets a lot out of those kinds of players is why now-a-days many of them bolt.

 

[Bayside44]

Boeheim has a decades-long history of getting the best out of players who have... ummm... let's call it issues. So it never surprises me that guys who leave don't set the world on fire at their next stop. But, that also doesn't mean that they couldn't have been important pieces at SU had they stayed.

Unfortunately I suspect the same reasons why JB gets a lot out of those kinds of players is why now-a-days many of them bolt.

I agree with that. I don't think he's necessarily wrong but kids don't want to hear it and have an easy off ramp. And for these other coaches they are getting a Syracuse vetted player.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

You'd think JB had Magic Johnson tethered to the bench last season.

No. He had a defender tethered.