Head Coaches | Air Raid Offense | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Head Coaches | Air Raid Offense

This is going to my favorite coaching thread of them all.

Air raid doesn't work.

They don't play defense.

While I was typing this we just gave up 500 more yards.

I wonder if some of you wish we'd just rip the top off the Dome.

For me, while we have it...
 
orangenirvana said:
The #1 argument for the Air Raid offense is TCU, imo.

They entered the Big 12 in 2012 with a run-based spread offense and struggled mightily after years of dominating the MWC.

2012 - #73 total offense, #61 passing
2013 - #107 total offense, #75 passing

He dumped the co-offensive coordinators he had and hired Sonny Cumbie from Texas Tech and Doug Meacham from Houston - two Air Raid experts. The results...

2014 - #5 total offense, #7 passing
2015 - #2 total offense, #5 passing

Gary Patterson himself isn't an Air Raid guy but he's smart enough to know what works and hired the right people.
Expand...
Exactly!
 
Chip said:
This is going to my favorite coaching thread of them all.

Air raid doesn't work.

They don't play defense.

While I was typing this we just gave up 500 more yards.

I wonder if some of you wish we'd just rip the top off the Dome.

For me, while we have it...
Expand...

Some people want this to be our new fight song...

 
We have one of the only climate-controlled environments in P5 college football (maybe the only?)... why on earth would we not at least take a chance with the air raid?

With Dungey leading the charge, the results could be miraculous after just a year or two. An exciting offense will get the fans back in the seats because every young kid today has grown up idolizing Oregon, TCU and every other high-flying offense. The kids will be asking their parents to come see the show.

We have gone 15 years, with the exception of 2012, with amazingly bad offenses. What we're doing doesn't work and we need to catch up with the times.

That Dome would be rocking if we're scoring 40-45 points/game.
 
original.jpg

Air Raid or it's your ass!
 
Rocco said:
We have one of the only climate-controlled environments in P5 college football (maybe the only?)... why on earth would we not at least take a chance with the air raid?

With Dungey leading the charge, the results could be miraculous after just a year or two. An exciting offense will get the fans back in the seats because every young kid today has grown up idolizing Oregon, TCU and every other high-flying offense. The kids will be asking their parents to come see the show.

We have gone 15 years, with the exception of 2012, with amazingly bad offenses. What we're doing doesn't work and we need to catch up with the times.

That Dome would be rocking if we're scoring 40-45 points/game.
Expand...

The biggest shame about 2012 is that Marrone and Hackett had come up with an unique spin on up tempo. NFL style offense with some zone read grafted on in a no huddle varied tempo set up. This would have been a Mecca for kids wanting to go to the next level seeing how spread QB's have been doing in the NFL.

This could really have turned into a feeder to the next level.

Might not have generated Baylor numbers but would have been next level with an ability to close a game with a 4 minute offense and win at the buzzer going 80 in a minute and a half.
 
GoSU96 said:
The biggest shame about 2012 is that Marrone and Hackett had come up with an unique spin on up tempo. NFL style offense with some zone read grafted on in a no huddle varied tempo set up. This would have been a Mecca for kids wanting to go to the next level seeing how spread QB's have been doing in the NFL.

This could really have turned into a feeder to the next level.

Might not have generated Baylor numbers but would have been next level with an ability to close a game with a 4 minute offense and win at the buzzer going 80 in a minute and a half.
Expand...

I don't entirely disagree. It sucked when Marrone and Hackett moved on. Having Nassib at the helm was a huge contributor because of his high football IQ and experience, but I'm not sure who would've been the starting QB in 2013 had they stayed. Marrone probably also knew to leave on a high note.
 
GoSU96 said:
The biggest shame about 2012 is that Marrone and Hackett had come up with an unique spin on up tempo. NFL style offense with some zone read grafted on in a no huddle varied tempo set up. This would have been a Mecca for kids wanting to go to the next level seeing how spread QB's have been doing in the NFL.

This could really have turned into a feeder to the next level.

Might not have generated Baylor numbers but would have been next level with an ability to close a game with a 4 minute offense and win at the buzzer going 80 in a minute and a half.
Expand...
it's possible that the 2012 offense is much better for a defense to practice against too. it's a little closer to the middle of the road jack of all trades offense while still benefiting from simplicity and fast pace.

with more years of that offense, we'd at least know if the scoring issue was just bad luck or whether it really had something to do with the scheme. it's very odd that 2012 scored 2.2 points a game more than 2015, even with all the oddball TDs this year
 
Millhouse said:
it's possible that the 2012 offense is much better for a defense to practice against too. it's a little closer to the middle of the road jack of all trades offense while still benefiting from simplicity and fast pace.

with more years of that offense, we'd at least know if the scoring issue was just bad luck or whether it really had something to do with the scheme. it's very odd that 2012 scored 2.2 points a game more than 2015, even with all the oddball TDs this year
Expand...

I think some of that was driven by not having high end skilled athletes. Good experienced players, but more dependent on execution than just beating the man in front of you.
 
GoSU96 said:
The biggest shame about 2012 is that Marrone and Hackett had come up with an unique spin on up tempo. NFL style offense with some zone read grafted on in a no huddle varied tempo set up. This would have been a Mecca for kids wanting to go to the next level seeing how spread QB's have been doing in the NFL.

This could really have turned into a feeder to the next level.

Might not have generated Baylor numbers but would have been next level with an ability to close a game with a 4 minute offense and win at the buzzer going 80 in a minute and a half.
Expand...

Just a reminder that it's not impossible to have a dynamic team here, and you don't need 4 and 5 star players all over the field to do it. One NFL starter on that offense, that's it.

 
Crusty said:
My hope is that the next HC adopts the Air Raid offense in the dome.

Air Raid is a shotgun spread, pass-first, hurry up, no huddle system that throws on 65%-75% of the plays. I can't think of a better system for the dome. It will attract players that want to play in an offense and venue that can showcase their skills.

It requires a smart QB as 90% of the run plays might be audibles. It can be run by either stationary or dual threat QBs, but they must be accurate passers first.

Lineman splits are as wide as a yard to create a longer distance for DEs and DTs to reach the QB and also creating wider passing lanes for West Coast type short pass patterns. For you over the middle types, the short crossing pattern is a staple of the Air Raid.

Here are a few of th Head Coaches that have built their careers on their version of the Air Raid.
Kevin Sumlin Texas Tech
Art Btiles Baylor
Kiff Kingsbury Texas Tech
Sonny Dikes Cal
Dana Holgorsen West Va
Ruffin McNeil Easr Carolina
Michael Leach Washington State

There are many teams playing versions of the Air Raid providing a large pool of talent from which to hire a HC or an OC.
Here are a few:
Expand...


Give me Baylor's offense. They run for about 300 and pass for about 350 a game and score a ton of points and win a lot of games.
 
orangenirvana said:
The #1 argument for the Air Raid offense is TCU, imo. They entered the Big 12 in 2012 with a run-based spread offense and struggled mightily after years of dominating the MWC. 2012 - #73 total offense, #61 passing 2013 - #107 total offense, #75 passing He dumped the co-offensive coordinators he had and hired Sonny Cumbie from Texas Tech and Doug Meacham from Houston - two Air Raid experts. The results... 2014 - #5 total offense, #7 passing 2015 - #2 total offense, #5 passing Gary Patterson himself isn't an Air Raid guy but he's smart enough to know what works and hired the right people.
Expand...

Yep Gary Patterson, a great defensive coach, scrapped his old offense and went to the one that he himself couldn't stop. It's really not as hard as some people make it out to be. I just don't get the resistance. Throw in the fact we have the Dome. The only controlled setting in the Northeast, and all of a sudden we differentiate ourselves from the competition as well.

Cmon Coyle go get Lincoln Riley, or open up the pocket book for Babers.
 
Someone should start a thread about all the positives of an "air raid" offense.

There are so many it just seems like a no brainer, but to me the biggest thing is recruiting.

With a passing, high tempo offense you will definitely get better looks from top QB's, WR's and TE's ... why wouldn't these players want to go to play for a school committed to the pass? I also believe you get better OL recruits. Most good lineman would rather pass block all day. It takes more skill, athleticism and IQ to be a good pass blocker. Run blocking all day can be exhausting and a little boring.

The only drawback is RB. And I think its minor, especially considering the gains at every other offensive position. You just go after RB's that want to catch as well as run. I also think it's easier to find talented under the radar RB's ... see Erv, Fredricks, etc.

Play to the numbers, most of your offensive recruits want to play in a pass oriented offense! Make them happy!
 
GoSU96 said:
Just a reminder that it's not impossible to have a dynamic team here, and you don't need 4 and 5 star players all over the field to do it. One NFL starter on that offense, that's it.

Expand...
Man that was a good team. It's too bad it took them half the season to figure it out.
 
orangenirvana said:
Man that was a good team. It's too bad it took them half the season to figure it out.
Expand...

Other than the 41 pts and 600 yds against Nwestern or the 29pts and 455 against USC you might have a point.
 
AlpharettaCuse said:
Give me Baylor's offense. They run for about 300 and pass for about 350 a game and score a ton of points and win a lot of games.
Expand...

I want a balanced offense too. Definitely want more passing but I want to be able to run the ball too.
 
GRob tried a pass first west coast offense and that killed SU football (some posters said that SU hasn't tried it before - we have). Unlike TCU and Baylor, we aren't located in Texas. We don't have the same kind of access to the same kind of talent. If we try to copy someone else's identity, we will always be second. We can't out sunshine Florida.

I'm all for innovation, and I think that we've been too run-dependent in the past, but we need to take a step back and evaluate where we are in the world, where our competition is, what their strengths and weaknesses are, and respond accordingly. Saying "team X successfully uses a west coast approach and we play in a Dome, so we should use a west coast approach" isn't a sufficient-enough analysis. That's drinking the Kool-Aid, and the last guy to drink the Kool-Aid is the guy who picks up the tab.

At this point, we're looking to consistently beat BC, Pitt, UL, and NCSU. WF is a given, FSU and Clemson will never be consistent wins (that's not to say that we can't get to the point where we can compete with them and hold our own), and the 4 OOC games can be adjusted to match our needs. BC will always be the last game, Pitt will probably be a late game (they were second to last 2/3 years), and NCSU and UL will vary.

Also at this point, we're in a position to recruit the northeast and get 3rd level picks out of places like Florida.
 
GRob tried a pass first west coast offense and that killed SU football (some posters said that SU hasn't tried it before - we have). Unlike TCU and Baylor, we aren't located in Texas. We don't have the same kind of access to the same kind of talent. If we try to copy someone else's identity, we will always be second. We can't out sunshine Florida.

I'm all for innovation, and I think that we've been too run-dependent in the past, but we need to take a step back and evaluate where we are in the world, where our competition is, what their strengths and weaknesses are, and respond accordingly. Saying "team X successfully uses a west coast approach and we play in a Dome, so we should use a west coast approach" isn't a sufficient-enough analysis. That's drinking the Kool-Aid, and the last guy to drink the Kool-Aid is the guy who picks up the tab.

At this point, we're looking to consistently beat BC, Pitt, UL, and NCSU. WF is a given, FSU and Clemson will never be consistent wins (that's not to say that we can't get to the point where we can compete with them and hold our own), and the 4 OOC games can be adjusted to match our needs. BC will always be the last game, Pitt will probably be a late game (they were second to last 2/3 years), and NCSU and UL will vary.

Also at this point, we're in a position to recruit the northeast and get 3rd level picks out of places like Florida. As such, there's a high probability that we will have to use a large number of players who grew up playing outside in terrible weather when we implement our system. They also learned football differently than most places (regions tend to have unique characteristics).

Next, unless we are willing to take (yet another) massive bath, the new system will have to use a large amount of current players for the next couple of years.

Finally, it is worth noting that we *do* have a dome (Idaho also has a dome so we're not unique, but we're close to it and ours is better). The dome inherently makes special teams and passing more important.

Advocate for whatever you want (i.e. air raid, cloud of dust, option, etc.), but address those issues, not whether it works at some college on the other side of the country who is playing a team that we've played 3x in the last 96 years. Also, style aside, if the new coach isn't aware of the nuances of our position, I don't think that he will succeed.
 
GoSU96 said:
Other than the 41 pts and 600 yds against Nwestern or the 29pts and 455 against USC you might have a point.
Expand...
might've had more than 29 points if Marrone hadn't punted from the THIRTYTWO yard line

or if he hadn't punted on 4th and 2 at midfield down 12

good chance the new guy will be an upgrade over shafer and marrone
 
nzm136 said:
GRob tried a pass first west coast offense and that killed SU football (some posters said that SU hasn't tried it before - we have). Unlike TCU and Baylor, we aren't located in Texas. We don't have the same kind of access to the same kind of talent. If we try to copy someone else's identity, we will always be second. We can't out sunshine Florida.

I'm all for innovation, and I think that we've been too run-dependent in the past, but we need to take a step back and evaluate where we are in the world, where our competition is, what their strengths and weaknesses are, and respond accordingly. Saying "team X successfully uses a west coast approach and we play in a Dome, so we should use a west coast approach" isn't a sufficient-enough analysis. That's drinking the Kool-Aid, and the last guy to drink the Kool-Aid is the guy who picks up the tab.

At this point, we're looking to consistently beat BC, Pitt, UL, and NCSU. WF is a given, FSU and Clemson will never be consistent wins (that's not to say that we can't get to the point where we can compete with them and hold our own), and the 4 OOC games can be adjusted to match our needs. BC will always be the last game, Pitt will probably be a late game (they were second to last 2/3 years), and NCSU and UL will vary.

Also at this point, we're in a position to recruit the northeast and get 3rd level picks out of places like Florida. As such, there's a high probability that we will have to use a large number of players who grew up playing outside in terrible weather when we implement our system. They also learned football differently than most places (regions tend to have unique characteristics).

Next, unless we are willing to take (yet another) massive bath, the new system will have to use a large amount of current players for the next couple of years.

Finally, it is worth noting that we *do* have a dome (Idaho also has a dome so we're not unique, but we're close to it and ours is better). The dome inherently makes special teams and passing more important.

Advocate for whatever you want (i.e. air raid, cloud of dust, option, etc.), but address those issues, not whether it works at some college on the other side of the country who is playing a team that we've played 3x in the last 96 years. Also, style aside, if the new coach isn't aware of the nuances of our position, I don't think that he will succeed.
Expand...
Just because a coach is from the west coast doesn't mean they run the west coast offense. This is basic stuff

Our OC this year talked up his West Coast approach
 
Putting aside the fact that WCO and Air Raid aren't synonymous...

Maybe it didn't work under Robinson, but maybe that was more because Robinson was the worst coach in the history of Syracuse football.
 
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