Here is what I can PROMISE all the "fire Shafer" people

[Alsacs]

Listen I have been among the hardest on SS. My biggest complaint was always the offense. This year's offense looks like a legit college offense. So he accomplished with Lester what I thought wasn't going to happen. Can we improve on offense even more sure but we have scored 24 points in every game and that is a huge improvement.

Now I have also said I thought SS was overrated as it relates to his defenses. This year's D is awful. It is the worst in 7 years he has been here. Changes better happen if he stays. We need more athletes in the secondary and more depth in LB core. DL has been okay and has some up and comers.

We need another win this year to keep SS. Back to back 3-9 years can be acceptable as he wasn't taking over from G-Rob. 4-8 you have atleast improved and can sell that. 3-9 new staff.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Interesting to note that Briles had 2 more wins in 3 complete seasons than Shafer in 2.5.

Briles also averaged 1 more win a year vs the 3 years prior to his arrival. Shafer needs to win 11 more games this year to equal that.

 

[Alsacs]

I think with most good coaches you start to see some results (wins) in year 3 and then in year 4 is the breakthrough. If we go 4-8 or 3-9 then you cannot make that argument here. You also need to take into consideration that those examples were all starting from scratch, Shafer was not. There is a difference from taking over a bad program that has just fired its coach vs taking over a mediocre program whose coach left for a better gig. On top of that Shafer was an internal hire. The kids on D were recruited by him for his system. That isn't the case on O but the D should have been steady every year.

Correct. There is no excuse for this D being as poor as it is. SS has had the same system in for 7 years. The D was expected to be young but not this bad. SS faith in Lester has worked out and I didn't think it would.

People need to realize SS took over from 25-25 not 10-35 that DM took over from.

 

[TheCusian]

Briles also averaged 1 more win a year vs the 3 years prior to his arrival. Shafer needs to win 11 more games this year to equal that.

Also true.

 

[Alsacs]

I realize its a long shot, but there are 3 more wins on the schedule, should we play smart. UVA hurt a lot, but I don't fear Pitt, BC, or NCSU. I also think we at least scare UL or Clemson, cause its a home. This week against Pitt at home shows me a ton about Shafer and his hold on the team. They come out flat, we might need a change. Huge game we have to at least be ready to play for, win or lose. We certainly have the talent, and we must get better ASAP. I agree with you 5 wins, he stays for sure. I think he stays with 4. He loses 9 in a row to finish 3-9... ugh.

Pitt is 5-1 has only played 2 home games and only lost is on the road at #12 Iowa and they lost on a 57 yd FG as time expired. Pitt is severely underrated. We would need a lot to happen to beat them. Boyd might go off for 200 yards this weekend.

 

[jr4750]

Pitt is 5-1 has only played 2 home games and only lost is on the road at #12 Iowa and they lost on a 57 yd FG as time expired. Pitt is severely underrated. We would need a lot to happen to beat them. Boyd might go off for 200 yards this weekend.

Perhaps, they are very underrated, and Boyd will definitely hurt us. But I do like the feel of being back home against a regional rival with a first year QB against our pressure. Dungey plays well, who knows. I just don't see Pitt as an automatic loss, but what do I know.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Syracuse football sucks, should shafer stay??...

yeah right.

tell him to gather his cue-cards of sound bite cliches and hit the bricks.

year 4 i want 9 wins.

are we getting that next year??

if yes...he stays.

if no...he goes.

clemson, fla st and nd are losses. will he run the table???

no.

why wait????

see ya...

 

[RF2044]

ok then they should be better at running the ball with healthier players under his system. they aren't because his offense is goofy

You're right--we should. Only our offensive line sucks, which makes it tough to run the ball.

 

[Scooch]

The EXACT same position we are in right now in 3 years. Probably worse- and I don't care if we hire Bill Belichek. Brand new recruiting grounds which will take time to infiltrate- brand new systems to teach with painful growing pains-a depleted recruiting class and- very likely- major transfers from current team.
Other than that we should be just fine.

Well, I mean if you PROMISE...

There isn't enough straw in the world to build this man. There's like a half-dozen people passionately arguing that he be fired. Most everyone else (a.k.a. the vast majority) is just expressing some level of frustration and disappointment at the past 2 games.

Also, are you emailing Coyle this fact? I mean, the man should be told, right? What if he assesses the program at the end of the season and determines a change should be made? I assume he'd be an idiot for doing that?

Lastly... I don't know about this Bill Belichek guy, but if we hired Bill Belichick we'd be much, much better. That I'm sure of.

 

[TheCusian]

Pitt is 5-1 has only played 2 home games and only lost is on the road at #12 Iowa and they lost on a 57 yd FG as time expired. Pitt is severely underrated. We would need a lot to happen to beat them. Boyd might go off for 200 yards this weekend.

They've been impressive. But like us, the meat of their schedule is in the 2nd half of the year.

A GTech their best win? VaTech?

(Obviously both are better than our w's)

 

[RF2044]

that's where I get. 4 he goes, 5 he stays.

but i think there maybe should be some staff shakeup on offense even if they get to 5

Agreed.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Agreed.

Unless we win one of the next 4 games, IMO 4 wins is not enough. Beating a bad URI, Wake, CMU, and one of the last 2 hasn't shown much. However if we upset Pitt, FSU, Louisville, or Clemson then you can say 4-8 is progress.

 

[Millhouse]

You're right--we should. Only our offensive line sucks, which makes it tough to run the ball.

strike 1 he's had enough time to recruit
strike 2 he hired a head scratching offensive line coach with no qualifications other than being from WMU
ok you're down in the count but still alive
strike 3 he's not throwing enough

 

[TheCusian]

Unless we win one of the next 4 games, IMO 4 wins is not enough. Beating a bad URI, Wake, CMU, and one of the last 2 hasn't shown much. However if we upset Pitt, FSU, Louisville, or Clemson then you can say 4-8 is progress.

4 wins is better than 3 no matter how you count.

 

[RF2044]

4 wins is better than 3 no matter how you count.

True, but we have to show more substantive progress than that--don't we?

I would love for Shafer to be retained, and be the next Coach Mac in terms of success here. But I'm getting worried, and I'm highly supportive. Saturday was a debacle caliber loss. Incredibly impactful loss, on many levels--not the least of which is the adverse impact on prospective bowl eligibility.

 

[KaiserUEO]

16-20 last 3 was the issue.

4 games under 500 after 3 years??

shafer will beat that by thanksgiving.

and im not even counting last year.

 

[GoCuse14]

We really cannot fall much further back. I think that is what many of you are missing. Our O is not producing. Our D is not producing. And it is not just this year but all 3 years. We are young on D but we are not seeing much promise from those young players. We have had plenty of young players in the past on D show us glimpses. We haven't seen that this year. Our O talent has been so bad that people are mistakenly thinking we have anything but average ACC players. Shafer has brought us back into a 3-4 win program. Hard to get worse.

halfway through the season we have already scored as many TD's as all of last year. producing a little I would say.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

4 wins is better than 3 no matter how you count.

The reason we had 3 was because we had a mash unit all year and a bozo OC. We weren't a 3-9 team.

Shafer needs to show he can beat a decent team. He needs something to hang his hat on. Going 4-8 by beating NC State or BC does not achieve that, 5-7 would IMO as you are just missing out on a Bowl.

Using FEI
2015 one win in top half of FBS #57 CMU
2014 none
2013 one win #55 Minny

Using S&P+
2015 none
2014 none
2013 one win #51 BC

Using Sagarin
2015 none
2014 none
2013 two wins #64 BC & #58 Minny

Using those three ranking we have not beaten a consensus top half of FBS team (currently 128 teams). His best win to date is either beating BC at home on the last play of the game or beating Minny in the same fashion in a Bowl game.

 

[Millhouse]

halfway through the season we have already scored as many TD's as all of last year. producing a little I would say.

either 2014 counts or it doesn't

if lester isn't going to be dinged for that 1-6 finish, fine. but to leave it off his assessment and then give him credit for doing better, that sounds like sandbagging to me.

we are not that good at scoring TD on offense. it's much easier easy to score from the 25 (OT) and we got 2 TD in 3 extra possessions there plus 3 TD not by the offense. that is a lot through only 6 games. if you want to make sense of the gap in yards per play and TDs, there it is.

yards per play is predictive. OT and defensive scores, not so much. this will even out. either YPP has to come up or PPG will come down. you aren't going to get 20% of your TDs from defense special teams and overtime in the long run

 

[jgeorge322]

Scott Shafer was not hired in a rebuild situation. He was talking over a program that gone 25-25 in the previous 4 years. I wasn't a fan of his hiring when it took place. I thought we rushed the decision and were unlucky Marrone left so late in the process.

SS did a good job in 2013, 2014 was a bad job, 2015 we have been good on offense which was my biggest complaint.
If we finish 3-9 he should be fired. 4-8 give him another year.
At 13-24 that is a clear step back and we should move on. Atleast with 4-8 we can sell we improved and Vegas had our O/U at 4.5.

If players transfer that would suck but I always willingly to give a new coach 1 honeymoon year.

Uhh 25-25 is still a rebuild...

 

[bcubs9497]

It's a BC Beagle story, but it's in the neighborhood.

Apparently no one has yet to read this...

 

[jgeorge322]

either 2014 counts or it doesn't

if lester isn't going to be dinged for that 1-6 finish, fine. but to leave it off his assessment and then give him credit for doing better, that sounds like sandbagging to me.

we are not that good at scoring TD on offense. it's much easier easy to score from the 25 (OT) and we got 2 TD in 3 extra possessions there plus 3 TD not by the offense. that is a lot through only 6 games. if you want to make sense of the gap in yards per play and TDs, there it is.

yards per play is predictive. OT and defensive scores, not so much. this will even out. either YPP has to come up or PPG will come down. you aren't going to get 20% of your TDs from defense special teams and overtime in the long run

It counts. We sucked. But i do think the incompetent oc is the proper excuse. I know that falls on shafer but i dont think it should result in a drastic decision either.

 

[Millhouse]

But i do think the incompetent oc is the proper excuse.

be more specific

 

[TheCusian]

True, but we have to show more substantive progress than that--don't we? I would love for Shafer to be retained, and be the next Coach Mac in terms of success here. But I'm getting worried, and I'm highly supportive. Saturday was a debacle caliber loss. Incredibly impactful loss, on many levels--not the least of which is the adverse impact on prospective bowl eligibility.

I said at the beginning of the season that 4 wins with a step back on D (young) and a step foward (hope) on O would be enough.

So I think it's enough - but it's def a very open question.

 

[jgeorge322]

112th in td% in conference play

for this to have any impact, you need to rank all the teams by td% in conference play.