Here is what I can PROMISE all the "fire Shafer" people

[BlackKnight76]

One problem is that nobody knows if the next guy is Greg Robinson, or Todd Graham or Bobby Petrino who leave after one season for a better job or Mike Haywood who gets into a domestic mess that forces him out, or Steve Kragethorpe who seems perfect for the job but fails miserably, or Steve Sarkisian, an apparent star whose dependency issues prevent him from coaching.

Pitt is a very good example of a program that presumed that a change in the head coaching position would yield an immediate and substantial upward change in the trajectory of the program. Instead the change in 2004 resulted in a merry-go-round of coaches and a striking and unsustainable level of instability - Walt Harris, Dave Wannstedt, Mike Haywood, Todd Graham, Paul Chryst and now Pat Narduzzi - six head coaches in ten years. So many changes in direction. So much time, money and energy wasted.

There is something to be said for patience and stability.

Pitt, despite all the coaching changes, has gone to seven straight bowls. That's probably going to be eight straight after Saturday, unfortunately. None of them have been all that exciting, but if you wouldn't sign up for seven straight bowls compared to what we've been dealing with in that same time span, you're crazy. It also means that despite all the turnover, they keep making pretty good hires. Sign me up for that world, compared to ours. I'll take my chances at having a break out season from a bunch of 6-6, 7-5 years than 3-9 or 4-8, which is what it looks like we're on trajectory towards.

 

[Alsacs]

Doc Holliday was 5-7 in his 3rd season as a HC at Marshall, just sayin. He's had time to build his system, in a non P-5 conf.

He is in CUSA but has also recruited South Florida extremely well. I bet Marshall has more NFL picks on its roster than we do.
Holliday would bring talent here. I think talent is what we need. I don't see Shafer as a great Xs and Os coach. He isn't bad but that was more of Marrone strength. I think Holliday would bring talent to where we could go 9-3 or 10-2.

 

[tep624]

He is in CUSA but has also recruited South Florida extremely well. I bet Marshall has more NFL picks on its roster than we do.
Holliday would bring talent here. I think talent is what we need. I don't see Shafer as a great Xs and Os coach. He isn't bad but that was more of Marrone strength. I think Holliday would bring talent to where we could go 9-3 or 10-2.

Marshall also has much less restrictive admission standards.

 

[Shark90210]

I am a supporter of Shafer and not only want him to succeed but find silly any talk about letting him go this year or even next. BUT, if discussions are taking place or will take place on whether to let him go, player transfers or recruiting losses should never ever be considered.

well said. Shafer should get another year, but if he gets the boot then we need to accept there will be transfers. i dont think there would be all that many, kids are kids. when they would sit and think about it, if they are any good they would stay and relish the PT. kids speak with their hearts when situations are hypothetical, but their brains when it comes down to it (and their parents interject).

 

[Alsacs]

Marshall also has much less restrictive admission standards.

Don't use this excuse. Syracuse isn't Stanford or Notre Dame. Outside of those 2 schools there isn't a kid who could get the NCAA required SAT scores Syracuse admissions wouldn't admit as long as they had a clean arrest record.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Just a small portion of cfb head coaches total wins through 3 seasons as first time head coach at an FBS school

Shafer has 13 right now...

David Cutcliff- 12 This is wrong. He went 22-13 his first 3 years. The 3 years prior the team went 20-15. He increased the schools wins by 2 games.
Bill Snyder-13 He went 13-20 which compared to the prior three years 2-30 was an 11 win improvement.
Doc Holliday 17 He went 17-20 compared to 14-23 is a 3 win improvement.
Jim Tressel-14 This is wrong as he went 32-7 compared to 25-11 a 7 win improvement.
Frank Beamer 11 He went 11-21 compared to 24-10 a 13 win decrease. He was forced to clean house with his assistants in order to keep his job.
Bo Schembechler 19 He went 18-9 compared to 19-11 a one win decrease.
Woody Hayes 18 His first 2 were 14-5 compared to 16-1 the 2 years prior a 2 win decrease. Then he went 4-3 compared to 6-3 the year prior for a 2 win decrease.
Art Briles 16 He went 16-20 compared to 8-26 an 8 win increase.
Mark D'antonio 18 He went 18-19 compared to 19-17 a one win decrease.

Hell coach Mac won 12 games in 3 years. We've all but sainted him since then. He went 12-20 compared to 15-19 a 3 win decrease.

Just sayin'

Shafer has gone thus far 13-18 compared to 21-17 which at worst will be an 8 win decrease at best even (assuming we win every game, the ACC CG, and a Bowl). There is still half a season to play. Thus far Shafer isn't very comparable to the guys you mentioned above who for the most part INCREASED the win totals. The only one who really struggled from that group was Beamer and he had to make drastic changes to keep his job.

 

[Finwad32]

He is in CUSA but has also recruited South Florida extremely well. I bet Marshall has more NFL picks on its roster than we do.
Holliday would bring talent here. I think talent is what we need. I don't see Shafer as a great Xs and Os coach. He isn't bad but that was more of Marrone strength. I think Holliday would bring talent to where we could go 9-3 or 10-2.

All opinion, doesn't make it wrong, but, it doesn't make it right either.

 

[Alsacs]

All opinion, doesn't make it wrong, but, it doesn't make it right either.

I agree. My voice isn't necessarily right. I can accept the other side. I just think SS needs another win this year or we need a new staff. I think the offense has shown a big improvement but if we go 3-9, 3-9 we need a new coach.

I can live with another year as long as we win another game this year.

 

[anomander]

They didn't have Williams because we knocked him out of the game.

And CMU brought us to OT because they knocked out Dungey, or at least that was the narrative for the close game against an inferior(?) opponent. Can't downplay 1 scenario and play up the other.

 

[orangefan13]

and Virginia brought us to overtime because the virgina refs don't know the difference from a incomplete pass that goes 12 yards in the air from a fumble that goes 2, unless they have the hometown refs in the review booth.
The review official should be on the hotseat all week yet we have shafer on one.

 

[tep624]

Don't use this excuse. Syracuse isn't Stanford or Notre Dame. Outside of those 2 schools there isn't a kid who could get the NCAA required SAT scores Syracuse admissions wouldn't admit as long as they had a clean arrest record.

Whatever you say.

http://www.herdzone.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/021913aaa.html

"Curry, headed toward his second NFL season with the Philadelphia Eagles, was talking about his life at Marshall off the football field — his arrival at MU as an academic non-qualifier.

The Thundering Herd takes a limited number of those annually, usually about four in a football recruiting year."

We're that flexible too so I guess you're right. :bang:

 

[TheCusian]

And CMU brought us to OT because they knocked out Dungey, or at least that was the narrative for the close game against an inferior(?) opponent. Can't downplay 1 scenario and play up the other.

Yeah - you can. Williams was largely ineffective before he got knocked out and it wasn't on a cheap hit. We beat him up fairly.

Dungey was killing CMU and then got taken out in a cheap illegal hit.

Big difference IMO.

 

[Alsacs]

Whatever you say.

http://www.herdzone.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/021913aaa.html

"Curry, headed toward his second NFL season with the Philadelphia Eagles, was talking about his life at Marshall off the football field — his arrival at MU as an academic non-qualifier.

The Thundering Herd takes a limited number of those annually, usually about four in a football recruiting year."

We're that flexible too so I guess you're right. :bang:

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/r...ew-incoming-eligibility-standards-create-term
Prop 48 kids are gone. That article is before the NCAA changed it.

 

[cuse309]

Snyder took over the worst team of the 1980's and build his teams thru JUCOs
Cutcliffe took over Duke who doesn't give a crap about FB and thus the patience was allowed.
Holliday is the guy I want as the next SU coach
Beamer took over in the 1980's and again FB wasn't the cash cow it is now.
Schembechler and Hayes are irrelevant.
Briles was the President of Texas HSFB coaches association and used those contacts to bring talent into Baylor.
D'Antonio did an excellent job at Cincinnati building that program up and has carried it over to Michigan State

Scott Shafer is not in the league of these guys outside of maybe Holliday.

1- So whats wrong with the JUCO route? Do you think K-State fans regret that?
2- Shafer took over SU who doesn't give a crap about football, so patience should be allowed
3- Holliday could be our next coach, but would you call for his head after 3 years and say...15 wins?
4- Shafer took over SU football in 2013 when FB wasn't a cash cow, hadn't been in some time, and continues not to be
5- Schembechler and Hayes are completely relevant to this discussion. They provide an example of letting new coaches develop. You just want it to be irrelevant.
6- Briles Brought in classes ranking 52nd (2008), 56th (2009), 44th(2010), 51st(2011), 52nd(2012). His first winning season came in 2010, and first 10 win season in 2011. So looks to me like he built that program with similar talent as ours. Where exactly is that Texas talent he brought in?
7- D'antonio was 1 game over .500 at Cinci with 7, 4, and 7 win seasons. Like I said...18 wins or 6wins/year. Enough to get him fired by you.

 

[Millhouse]

And CMU brought us to OT because they knocked out Dungey, or at least that was the narrative for the close game against an inferior(?) opponent. Can't downplay 1 scenario and play up the other.

I missed that td. Against fbs 5 of our 18 scores have come in overtime or on defense. 28% is crazy


I'm glad they're 3 for 4 in ot but most games don't have extra time or defensive scores.

 

[cuse309]

Shafer has gone thus far 13-18 compared to 21-17 which at worst will be an 8 win decrease at best even (assuming we win every game, the ACC CG, and a Bowl). There is still half a season to play. Thus far Shafer isn't very comparable to the guys you mentioned above who for the most part INCREASED the win totals. The only one who really struggled from that group was Beamer and he had to make drastic changes to keep his job.

The bottom line is wins. if he should remain at 13 or 14 or 15 wins, that puts him in the same vicinity as those coaches. I prefaced those records by saying they were their wins through 3 seasons as a first time head coach at anfbs program. Not first time coaching at their current gig.

 

[JSOrange97]

Apparently no one has yet to read this...

Good reminder... and a good article. Reinforces what I believe, which is that barring getting blown out the rest of this season that Shafer at least needs to get one more season, and should then get an extension as long as the D turns it around and the offense produces more. Of course if these things happens, then wins should come too, right? I am not saying that Shafer inherited a total rebuild, but it was an incomplete rebuild. As the article states, it can take 4-5 years for "peer" schools to get back to where we'd all like to be: bowls every year and the ability to compete for a conference championship.

Edit: here's the BC article.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

The bottom line is wins. if he should remain at 13 or 14 or 15 wins, that puts him in the same vicinity as those coaches. I prefaced those records by saying they were their wins through 3 seasons as a first time head coach at anfbs program. Not first time coaching at their current gig.

You don't think there is a difference from where you take over? If Shafer took over from GRob no one here would question him. Shafer has doen significantly worse than his predecessor. Only Beamer from that group did the same.

 

[Alsacs]

1- So whats wrong with the JUCO route? Do you think K-State fans regret that?
2- Shafer took over SU who doesn't give a crap about football, so patience should be allowed
3- Holliday could be our next coach, but would you call for his head after 3 years and say...15 wins?
4- Shafer took over SU football in 2013 when FB wasn't a cash cow, hadn't been in some time, and continues not to be
5- Schembechler and Hayes are completely relevant to this discussion. They provide an example of letting new coaches develop. You just want it to be irrelevant.
6- Briles Brought in classes ranking 52nd (2008), 56th (2009), 44th(2010), 51st(2011), 52nd(2012). His first winning season came in 2010, and first 10 win season in 2011. So looks to me like he built that program with similar talent as ours. Where exactly is that Texas talent he brought in?
7- D'antonio was 1 game over .500 at Cinci with 7, 4, and 7 win seasons. Like I said...18 wins or 6wins/year. Enough to get him fired by you.

You are hilarious. You think that was good?

First off Synder took over a program that had lost 27 games in a row. He took over a dumpster fire. Scott Shafer did not.
Second if you want to say SU doesn't care about FB GTF off this board. We care about FB. We aren't Duke.
Third Schemblecher and Hayes TOOK OVER IN A DIFFERENT ERA. Please never bring them into any discussion about SS's performance as SU HC. That is like comparing Tom Brady to Terry Bradshaw. Football WAS COMPLETELY different in their respective eras.
Briles brought in better talent than Baylor had. He used his contacts with TX HSFB coaches to get that talent into Baylor.
Where the did I say 18 would get fired by me? Good job good effort SS HAS 13 wins now. If he had 18 wins thru 3 years he should get a contract extension. Too bad you can't count and freaking drop a mic when SS has 13 WINS and guess he has played the easy part of the schedule.
The fact you think your point is made is funny. 18 wins at Cincinnati which sucked got D'Antonio the momentum to get the Michigan State job.
I wish we would win 18 games in 3 years instead you want to call 13 wins 18 wins to stay I want SS fired. Go get a shine box.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Your arguments are getting tighter and you dropped in a classic movie quote instead of hurling a personal insult, nice job alsacs.

 

[GoSU96]

Interesting to note that Briles had 2 more wins in 3 complete seasons than Shafer in 2.5.

Are you talking about his first three years? He took over a team that went 15-32 the four years prior and a Gergian level of statistical ineptitude over that time.

Shafer didn't take over a program like that. He took over a program that went 25-25 the four years prior, had two 8 win seasons, and improved statistically year over year to the point that year prior to him taking over had top 20 offense and top 45 defense.

The two scenarios aren't close to analogous.

 

[reedny]

"Premature anything isn't very good." - Jim Boeheim

I agree.

signed,

Rick P.

 

[rrlbees]

i am not disagreeing but what is your logic regarding recruiting?we seem to be trending up----are u considering the impact of a name coach ? not sure what u mean?

I'm only saying that if at some point the AD considers letting Shafer go, they can't be worried that a few players might transfer or a few committed recruits may decommit.

 

[tep624]

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/r...ew-incoming-eligibility-standards-create-term
Prop 48 kids are gone. That article is before the NCAA changed it.

That still doesn't address the fact that Marshall regularly took on academic non-qualifiers under the old policy, which is still in effect until 2016, while we didn't. 4 a year - that works out to 16 kids in their program on scholarship at any given time (19%) that we would never ever touch. That gives them some flexibility that we do not have.

I would assume they would continue to take on academic non qualifiers - academic redshirts, and we will continue not to. If anything, it will make it harder for us to get borderline kids qualified while programs like Marshall can continue to take on non-qualifiers and now have the advantage of those non-qualifiers not losing a year of eligibility.

 

[rrlbees]

I'm not going to go back and research each school's schedules, but SU has over-scheduled for the past several years. SU also lost the home field advantage against some very good teams by playing games in NY or NJ. Good or bad, that's our situation. By looking at the lack of support CNY gives to this team, moving games to NYC might be a better option. The actual butts in seats for our first three home games were 19,000 +, 18,000+ and 18,000+. The numbers shared were seats sold. I'm afraid this weekend's game with Pitt will also be an embarrassing number of less than 30,000.

The worst thing the program could do is move games to NYC. SU fans there are fewer then the Dome. And those numbers are not butts in the seats.