Here is what I can PROMISE all the "fire Shafer" people

[Alsacs]

That still doesn't address the fact that Marshall regularly took on academic non-qualifiers under the old policy, which is still in effect until 2016, while we didn't. 4 a year - that works out to 16 kids in their program on scholarship at any given time (19%) that we would never ever touch. That gives them some flexibility that we do not have.

I would assume they would continue to take on academic non qualifiers - academic redshirts, and we will continue not to. If anything, it will make it harder for us to get borderline kids qualified while programs like Marshall can continue to take on non-qualifiers and now have the advantage of those non-qualifiers not losing a year of eligibility.

Your points are definitely what I would hope Coyle would think about and ask Holliday during an interview on. I just think if we make a move Doc Holliday would be the first guy I would interview if I were Coyle. The guy can recruit FL and WPA both areas I think SU has to mine for talent.

 

[TheCusian]

Are you talking about his first three years? He took over a team that went 15-32 the four years prior and a Gergian level of statistical ineptitude over that time. Shafer didn't take over a program like that. He took over a program that went 25-25 the four years prior, had two 8 win seasons, and improved statistically year over year to the point that year prior to him taking over had top 20 offense and top 45 defense. The two scenarios aren't close to analogous.

I don't recall that straight line improvement under Marrone. He had a couple of stinkers in there. The defense propped him up until that last year where the stumbled onto something great offensively a week before the opener (and still lost some head scratchers that year).

But anyways - it was less about comparing the two and more about allowing time for things to get better.

I don't believe last years team was a true 3-9. But it's hard to judge because Shafer created the OC problem - but not the injuries. Weird year.

 

[RF2044]

You are hilarious. You think that was good?

First off Synder took over a program that had lost 27 games in a row. He took over a dumpster fire. Scott Shafer did not.
Second if you want to say SU doesn't care about FB GTF off this board. We care about FB. We aren't Duke.
Third Schemblecher and Hayes TOOK OVER IN A DIFFERENT ERA. Please never bring them into any discussion about SS's performance as SU HC. That is like comparing Tom Brady to Terry Bradshaw. Football WAS COMPLETELY different in their respective eras.
Briles brought in better talent than Baylor had. He used his contacts with TX HSFB coaches to get that talent into Baylor.
Where the did I say 18 would get fired by me? Good job good effort SS HAS 13 wins now. If he had 18 wins thru 3 years he should get a contract extension. Too bad you can't count and freaking drop a mic when SS has 13 WINS and guess he has played the easy part of the schedule.
The fact you think your point is made is funny. 18 wins at Cincinnati which sucked got D'Antonio the momentum to get the Michigan State job.
I wish we would win 18 games in 3 years instead you want to call 13 wins 18 wins to stay I want SS fired. Go get a shine box.

One more thing to add: Snyder was able to capitalize on the large number of JUCO football powers in the lower midwest, specifically his school's home state of Kansas, and tap into that resource. We don't have nearly the same level of local JUCO talent in NYS. Not even close.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Your points are definitely what I would hope Coyle would think about and ask Holliday during an interview on. I just think if we make a move Doc Holliday would be the first guy I would interview if I were Coyle. The guy can recruit FL and WPA both areas I think SU has to mine for talent.

Their roster is interesting. Kids are from

26 Florida
16 West Virginia
14 Georgia
10 Ohio, Virginia
8 South Carolina
4 Kentucky, Maryland
3 North Carolina
2 California, Indiana
1 Colorado, Connecticut, DC, Kansas, Nevada, New Jersey, Tennessee, Texas

He might have to recruit different types of kids at SU, but he has plenty of connections in our main recruiting territories. He has Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Virginia, South Carolina, Kentucky, Maryland, North Carolina all within the ACC footprint. He doesn't need to build relationships with these high schools. What he doesn't have is Pennsylvania (which is kind of shocking) and New Jersey (which wouldn't matter if he kept Acosta). He would have to build New York from scratch, but it isn't a talent rich state so it is ok. I think our recruiting would improve by quite a bit.

 

[Alsacs]

Their roster is interesting. Kids are from

26 Florida
16 West Virginia
14 Georgia
10 Ohio, Virginia
8 South Carolina
4 Kentucky, Maryland
3 North Carolina
2 California, Indiana
1 Colorado, Connecticut, DC, Kansas, Nevada, New Jersey, Tennessee, Texas

He might have to recruit different types of kids at SU, but he has plenty of connections in our main recruiting territories. He has Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Virginia, South Carolina, Kentucky, Maryland, North Carolina all within the ACC footprint. He doesn't need to build relationships with these high schools. What he doesn't have is Pennsylvania (which is kind of shocking) and New Jersey (which wouldn't matter if he kept Acosta). He would have to build New York from scratch, but it isn't a talent rich state so it is ok. I think our recruiting would improve by quite a bit.

Exactly. I am shocked about PA. As he was at WVU and he recruited well for WVU. Holliday was the main recruiter for Geno Smith, Tavon Austin, Stedman Bailey.

We need to recruit NY, NJ, PA, FL. Then NC, SC, GA, OH, VA. Holliday would be my first call if we make a move. I would give SS another year if we win another game as the offense has improved enough to get that year.

Acosta no matter should be the guy who is here until he gets a coordinator job. Acosta has turned NJ into a state we are getting multiple kids a year now.

 

[tep624]

Their roster is interesting. Kids are from

26 Florida
16 West Virginia
14 Georgia
10 Ohio, Virginia
8 South Carolina
4 Kentucky, Maryland
3 North Carolina
2 California, Indiana
1 Colorado, Connecticut, DC, Kansas, Nevada, New Jersey, Tennessee, Texas

He might have to recruit different types of kids at SU, but he has plenty of connections in our main recruiting territories. He has Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Virginia, South Carolina, Kentucky, Maryland, North Carolina all within the ACC footprint. He doesn't need to build relationships with these high schools. What he doesn't have is Pennsylvania (which is kind of shocking) and New Jersey (which wouldn't matter if he kept Acosta). He would have to build New York from scratch, but it isn't a talent rich state so it is ok. I think our recruiting would improve by quite a bit.

He is ALL over tier 2 kids from Florida. I was surprised to see how many recruits we've gone after over the past 3 or 4 years out of Florida that had Marshall offers.

 

[anomander]

I don't recall that straight line improvement under Marrone. He had a couple of stinkers in there. The defense propped him up until that last year where the stumbled onto something great offensively a week before the opener (and still lost some head scratchers that year).

But anyways - it was less about comparing the two and more about allowing time for things to get better.

I don't believe last years team was a true 3-9. But it's hard to judge because Shafer created the OC problem - but not the injuries. Weird year.

It would have been pretty straight line under Marrone if the injury bug didn't destroy the 2011 team. Not to mention the best LT we've had in a long time missed the 1st 4 games of 2012. But again that's only if we are playing up the injury angle/excuse again. I prefer not to, but you Ccan't pick and chose when to implement it.

And why did Marrone/Hackett stumble on a successful offense? To me they saw what they had wasn't working and were extremely smart and made an incredible adjustment?

Honestly I really don't think the 2 staffs are comparable. The former routinely rose up and not only competed with heavily out matched programs, but won, and won going away. Again this staffs best win is who a 7-5 BC in 2013?

 

[cuse309]

You are hilarious. You think that was good?

First off Synder took over a program that had lost 27 games in a row. He took over a dumpster fire. Scott Shafer did not.
Second if you want to say SU doesn't care about FB GTF off this board. We care about FB. We aren't Duke.
Third Schemblecher and Hayes TOOK OVER IN A DIFFERENT ERA. Please never bring them into any discussion about SS's performance as SU HC. That is like comparing Tom Brady to Terry Bradshaw. Football WAS COMPLETELY different in their respective eras.
Briles brought in better talent than Baylor had. He used his contacts with TX HSFB coaches to get that talent into Baylor.
Where the did I say 18 would get fired by me? Good job good effort SS HAS 13 wins now. If he had 18 wins thru 3 years he should get a contract extension. Too bad you can't count and freaking drop a mic when SS has 13 WINS and guess he has played the easy part of the schedule.
The fact you think your point is made is funny. 18 wins at Cincinnati which sucked got D'Antonio the momentum to get the Michigan State job.
I wish we would win 18 games in 3 years instead you want to call 13 wins 18 wins to stay I want SS fired. Go get a shine box.

Is that like internet yelling or something?
I should get off the board simply because I stated SU doesn't support football? I don't recall saying the fans. I meant SU as in the University.
I'm pretty sure you knew that though. You just wanted to do more internet yelling.

 

[GoSU96]

I don't recall that straight line improvement under Marrone. He had a couple of stinkers in there. The defense propped him up until that last year where the stumbled onto something great offensively a week before the opener (and still lost some head scratchers that year).

But anyways - it was less about comparing the two and more about allowing time for things to get better.

I don't believe last years team was a true 3-9. But it's hard to judge because Shafer created the OC problem - but not the injuries. Weird year.

Way to miss the point.

The comparison was the state of Baylor vs SU when Briles and Shafer started, and how each where performing prior to them taking over. YOU'RE the one who brought Briles into the conversation.

 

[Alsacs]

Is that like internet yelling or something?
I should get off the board simply because I stated SU doesn't support football? I don't recall saying the fans. I meant SU as in the University.
I'm pretty sure you knew that though. You just wanted to do more internet yelling.

Syracuse University doesn't support FB? You actually want me to believe that was your point. When I said Duke doesn't care about football. You think I should know what you meant okay.
Good job good effort. Syracuse is about to announce something about its stadium in the next month. If Syracuse didn't care about FB they wouldn't do anything to improve the stadium and would just continue cashing checks.

 

[RoofBeam]

Too bad you can't promise some clear measures of progress during the course of the season, some game day intelligence, and some gonads.

The EXACT same position we are in right now in 3 years. Probably worse- and I don't care if we hire Bill Belichek. Brand new recruiting grounds which will take time to infiltrate- brand new systems to teach with painful growing pains-a depleted recruiting class and- very likely- major transfers from current team.
Other than that we should be just fine.

 

[AZOrange]

Syracuse University doesn't support FB? You actually want me to believe that was your point. When I said Duke doesn't care about football. You think I should know what you meant okay.
Good job good effort. Syracuse is about to announce something about its stadium in the next month. If Syracuse didn't care about FB they wouldn't do anything to improve the stadium and would just continue cashing checks.

I disagree. Syracuse cares more about football today than it did 10 years ago. But they've dropped the ball on football for sure.

 

[Alsacs]

I disagree. Syracuse cares more about football today than it did 10 years ago. But they've dropped the ball on football for sure.

Even if Syracuse dropped the ball and I don't think they have but its debatable. I would still say Syracuse has supported football infinitely better than Duke has. Duke finally installed some blue seats at their stadium this year for TV purposes. Cutcliffe has worked a miracle there and outside of Steve Spurrier Duke has been a doormat the past 30 years. Syracuse outside of the 4 GRob years was not like Duke at all.

Our fanbase has supported FB and expected to see good FB. Duke has been a BB school and wouldn't have a problem admitting it. Duke doesn't have a large fanbase because most non-alums in Durham support UNC or NCSU. Duke BB has a lot of national bandwagon fans by winning but Duke FB doesn't have support.

Syracuse has a lot of local non-alum support.

 

[Cusester]

The only way you fire Scott Shafer is if you have someone that in your opinion is a major upgrade in coaching talent and he has agreed to take the job. If you don't have an agreement with an upgrade you ride it out. I love HCSS but this is starting to feel a lot like the end of the Pasqualoni era. I don't see the individual improvement that I saw in the Marrone years and if we hadn't found Eric Dungey we may well be 1-5 right now.

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Even if Syracuse dropped the ball and I don't think they have but its debatable. I would still say Syracuse has supported football infinitely better than Duke has. Duke finally installed some blue seats at their stadium this year for TV purposes. Cutcliffe has worked a miracle there and outside of Steve Spurrier Duke has been a doormat the past 30 years. Syracuse outside of the 4 GRob years was not like Duke at all.

Our fanbase has supported FB and expected to see good FB. Duke has been a BB school and wouldn't have a problem admitting it. Duke doesn't have a large fanbase because most non-alums in Durham support UNC or NCSU. Duke BB has a lot of national bandwagon fans by winning but Duke FB doesn't have support.

Syracuse has a lot of local non-alum support.

Duke's passed us by. They're going all-in on football to become Stanford East. They've renovated their stadium, are going to win their division again, and have a top 25 recruiting class. We should do what they did and hire a real head coach. Someone with experience and proven success.

 

[Chip]

The EXACT same position we are in right now in 3 years. Probably worse- and I don't care if we hire Bill Belichek. Brand new recruiting grounds which will take time to infiltrate- brand new systems to teach with painful growing pains-a depleted recruiting class and- very likely- major transfers from current team.
Other than that we should be just fine.

Where do you think we'll be in 3 years if we keep him?

Where do you think we'll be in 4-6 years if we replace him?

Where do you think we'll be in 4-6 years if we keep him?

These are the things Coyle gets paid for. If we repeat the 3 win season, I don't think he's going to worry too much that if he changes coaches he'll still be at 3 wins in 3 years.

 

[TheCusian]

It would have been pretty straight line under Marrone if the injury bug didn't destroy the 2011 team. Not to mention the best LT we've had in a long time missed the 1st 4 games of 2012. But again that's only if we are playing up the injury angle/excuse again. I prefer not to, but you Ccan't pick and chose when to implement it. And why did Marrone/Hackett stumble on a successful offense? To me they saw what they had wasn't working and were extremely smart and made an incredible adjustment? Honestly I really don't think the 2 staffs are comparable. The former routinely rose up and not only competed with heavily out matched programs, but won, and won going away. Again this staffs best win is who a 7-5 BC in 2013?

An adjustment in year 4.

And they hadn't beaten a ranked team until game 7 of year 3.

Pitts ranked, right?

 

[TheCusian]

Way to miss the point. The comparison was the state of Baylor vs SU when Briles and Shafer started, and how each where performing prior to them taking over. YOU'RE the one who brought Briles into the conversation.

No I didn't bring up how each team was performing prior to them taking over. That was you.

I thought it was interesting that it took Briles a bunch of years to get the ship pointed in the right direction and that the total number of wins wasn't that far off. And that is a fact.

 

[Alsacs]

An adjustment in year 4.

And they hadn't beaten a ranked team until game 7 of year 3.

Pitts ranked, right?

We beat ranked WVU on the road year 2 of the DM Era in 2010. Chandler Jones owned Geno Smith that game. DM had some upset wins during his tenure. Even in 2011 during that 5-7 season we housed #11 WVU at the Dome.

 

[GoSU96]

No I didn't bring up how each team was performing prior to them taking over. That was you.

I thought it was interesting that it took Briles a bunch of years to get the ship pointed in the right direction and that the total number of wins wasn't that far off. And that is a fact.

For somebody who likes context you sure are oblivious to it.

It took Briles time because he took over a Gregian level toxic waste site.

Shafer - didn't.

Briles IMPROVED his team in three years

Shafer, not so much

 

[GoSU96]

An adjustment in year 4.

And they hadn't beaten a ranked team until game 7 of year 3.

Pitts ranked, right?

2009 included wins against an 8 win Northwestern team and a 9 win Rutgers team.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

An adjustment in year 4.

And they hadn't beaten a ranked team until game 7 of year 3.

Pitts ranked, right?

Even before 2012 we beat Top 50 Sagarin teams

2011 #22 WV, #40 Toledo
2010 #36 WV, #44 USF
2009 #41 Rutgers

So in Marrone's first three years he had five Top 50 wins and at least one per year. Shafer really needs to win one of the next 4 games to prove he can coach. That or to beat both NC State and BC.

 

[TheCusian]

We beat ranked WVU on the road year 2 of the DM Era in 2010. Chandler Jones owned Geno Smith that game. DM had some upset wins during his tenure. Even in 2011 during that 5-7 season we housed #11 WVU at the Dome.

According to cfbstats, they weren't ranked in 2010.

The 2011 game was year 3, game 7 - and the game I was referring to.

 

[billsin01]

I just want to get back to the point where 7-4 or 6-5 is a down year. I don't expect the 87-92 run where we had 3 10 win seasons in that stretch and two top 10 final AP rankings. That's a stretch that most programs don't get.

6-9 wins, bowl every year, no losing seasons. I would be happy with that, and if we get a 10 or 11 winner in there because all the stars align, then fantastic.

I don't know -- I"m not knocking that point but a 7-win or 8-win season at this point is fine but largely irrelevant when you consider three wins are likely gimmes and three more will be against teams you should beat within conference play. I'd probably be OK with that too but I think you've really got to strive for winning 9 or 10 on a fairly regular basis. It seems to me anything less than that is fine in terms of general success but doesn't really energize a program. Now is 9 or 10 on a regular basis possible with the current setup in college football? I"m not sure. But I do know that you're not getting a city fired up about winning 7 or 8 every year.

 

[Alsacs]

According to cfbstats, they weren't ranked in 2010.

The 2011 game was year 3, game 7 - and the game I was referring to.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/recap?gameId=302960277

They were ranked when we beat them on the road in Morgantown.