Hop brought back for next year at UW….

[Day2]

I've added SU's overall ACC record since we joined. The overall record to date is 90-77 which included our inaugural 14-4 season. Not including that inaugural season, our record the last 9 seasons in conference is 76-73 to date.

Syracuse Orange Basketball Season Records

All-Time Season Won/Loss record for Syracuse University Basketball Orange along with the team's final AP ranking, and the head coach. Also includes their conference record for the Big East and ACC seasons. The Syracuse Orange were formerly known as the Syracuse Orangemen.

www.orangehoops.org

Does the inaugural season not count?

 

[orangecuse]

Does the inaugural season not count?

That's up to you.

I pointed out what the overall record is and then using the last 9 years. From an actuarial standpoint, the inaugural 14-4 conference record is a statistical outlier when viewing the last 9 full seasons worth of data.

 

[Trueblue25]

At this point we’d be better served promoting Red and allowing him resources to gut/rebuild his staff.

 

[Day2]

That's up to you.

I pointed out what the overall record is and then using the last 9 years. From an actuarial standpoint, the inaugural 14-4 conference record is a statistical outlier when viewing the last 9 full seasons worth of data.

Sounds like you don’t think it counts.

 

[NYCCuse826]

Hop didn’t have a good PG to get those guys the ball and run the offense b/c Quade was ruled ineligible. And McDaniels was awful that season, through no fault of Hop’s. Not saying Hop is unquestionably the answer at Cuse but there’s been mitigating factors at Washington.

It's the coaches and basketball program's responsibility to ensure that their players are doing the bare minimum to stay eligible. That's what all of the tutors are for.

 

[Day2]

It's the coaches and basketball program's responsibility to ensure that their players are doing the bare minimum to stay eligible. That's what all of the tutors are for.

I think the coaches are supposed to develop the players, too. If McDaniels was awful, that’s on Hop.

 

[Dcuse]

ummm...that he was a good assistant before???

Yeah…..I kinda remember that.

 

[orangecuse]

Sounds like you don’t think it counts.

You're the owner of your own thoughts.

The data speaks for itself.

If you're an investor, I'd imagine that the data you choose to use/carry more weight is data more representative of the investment's/equity's typical/overall behavioral pattern vs. an outlier/deviation or the like.

 

[Day2]

You're the owner of your own thoughts.

The data speaks for itself.

If you're an investor, I'd would imagine/hope that the data you choose to use/carry more weight is data more representative of the investment's/equity's typical/overall behavioral pattern vs. an outlier/deviation or the like.

Sir, this is a Wendy’s.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The university honored his decision ONLY after and because Hopkins left. He was flat out turned down prior to that when he approached the top brass. Kent was not going against his word and losing his credibility when he gave that national press conference, etc. after the 2nd probation.

Just as a couple have alluded, Hop knew how hard JB was pushing (behind the scenes as well) and how he didn't want to retire. Hop was deeply torn and he didn't want it to come between/go down this way as JB is the one who gave him his opportunity in coaching and was a father figure type as well. Therefore, Hop advised his agent to let it be known he was available.

I received this information at the time (also mentioned it here somewhat in one of the many threads going around then) from a family member that was (still is) an executive at one of SU's largest boosters. Same as it was then...folks can take it as they wish and as they see fit.

Yeah, this is only partially true. Hop checked out his entire last season because Boeheim already had made it clear that he wasn't going to willingly leave.

So, technically, "yes, it wasn't announced that Boeheim was staying until Mike took another job", but that's kind of a red herring to provide cover.

The fact of the matter is that Boeheim was pissed that he was put on probation again, he thought the penalties were unfair (and rightly so ...) and he wanted a chance to rehabilitate his image. The thought of also coaching his kids might have been in the back of his mind.

My source is someone very close to Mike. Boeheim was not willing to leave and honor the deal he had agreed to with Syverud. He argued against it. So Mike told his agent to start looking for other jobs while he just went through the motions his last year. If you don't think that's the way it went down, then isn't it curious that all those Mike guys went to UW when he took the job and absolutely none of them came here to SU?

 

[Chip]

I’ll support whatever direction we take. I don’t have the energy anymore to dissect it.

But it seems to me that the iso offense, zone defense is all the Boeheim tree knows. Which makes sense. I wouldn’t mind moving away from it.

If the heir apparent keeps it but can get better players, then great.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Mike Hopkins allowed all this to happen by just not waiting one more year and then taking over here.

If by saying "Mike Hopkins wouldn't wait one more year" you actually mean "Jim Boeheim wasn't willing to leave", then this statement would be correct. Mike had been coach-in-waiting, officially, for YEARS before he took the Washington job. Hell, Mike still had HAIR when he was announced.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Mike Hopkins had a contract to take over. Coach Boeheim’s contract was set to expire. When Hop left Coach got an extension.

Hopkins would have been the HC and Coach would haven’t been. Hopkins did his mentor a favor but making the break clean. So Coach could continue and Hop get his shot at a good spot.

It doesn't matter how many times you type this - BOEHEIM WOULDN'T HONOR THE AGREEMENT TO LEAVE. That's why Mike left, to avoid pushing him out to force SU to honor the contract.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The insider didn’t dispute that Hop had a contract to take over and would have.
So I don’t get your point. If Hop stayed one more year as assistant he takes over as HC.
He had a contract to do so. Hop left for Coach to continue but if Hop doesn’t leave he takes over. It would have been uncomfortable but again it was in pen and paper.

Hop had already waited something like 5 or 6 years after being unofficially named Boeheim's designated successor. After word of that leaked, and Boeheim kept on coaching, they eventually made the announcement public, gave Mike a new title and a big raise. That was in 2015.

Mike didn't leave for 2 more years, as Boeheim bristled to the media about the sanctions, and showed that he was unwilling to leave until HE felt the time was right. As we can see, "the time STILL isn't right."

 

[IthacaMatt]

Based on this, we already started our downhill slide in Hop's last 3 years on the staff.

Really, only his last year. The slide began because of sanctions.

Mike was a zombie on the bench that final year, and he kept all the recruiting relationships he had been building for himself, planning his exit.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Mike Hopkins had a contract to take over. Coach Boeheim’s contract was set to expire. When Hop left Coach got an extension.

Hopkins would have been the HC and Coach would haven’t been. Hopkins did his mentor a favor but making the break clean. So Coach could continue and Hop get his shot at a good spot.

Your tone deafness is startling.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The insider didn’t dispute that Hop had a contract to take over and would have.
If Hop stayed one more year as assistant he takes over as HC. [NOPE]

He had a contract to do so. Hop left for Coach to continue but if Hop doesn’t leave he takes over. It would have been uncomfortable but again it was in pen and paper.

Boeheim would have made Mike threaten to sue the University to enforce the contract.

HE WASN'T GOING.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Yup. It was going to have to be a hostile takeover. Hop didn’t just walk away.

Well put.

 

[orangecuse]

Yeah, this is only partially true. Hop checked out his entire last season because Boeheim already had made it clear that he wasn't going to willingly leave.

So, technically, "yes, it wasn't announced that Boeheim was staying until Mike took another job", but that's kind of a red herring to provide cover.

The fact of the matter is that Boeheim was pissed that he was put on probation again, he thought the penalties were unfair (and rightly so ...) and he wanted a chance to rehabilitate his image. The thought of also coaching his kids might have been in the back of his mind.

My source is someone very close to Mike. Boeheim was not willing to leave and honor the deal he had agreed to with Syverud. He argued against it. So Mike told his agent to start looking for other jobs while he just went through the motions his last year. If you don't think that's the way it went down, then isn't it curious that all those Mike guys went to UW when he took the job and absolutely none of them came here to SU?

If I don't think that's the way it went down? I believe I've generally summed up pretty much the same deal.

However, "technically," if Mike held firm and didn't budge, etc., affording Kent to honor the agreement which he had every intention of keeping, moreoever, broadcasted to the entire world, there isn't a need for any announcement that Boeheim is staying.

 

[IthacaMatt]

At this point we’d be better served promoting Red and allowing him resources to gut/rebuild his staff.

Based on what? A guy who has never coached as the head guy, and hasn't recruited especially well, despite his all his DMV AAU connections?

 

[Trueblue25]

Based on what? A guy who has never coached as the head guy, and hasn't recruited especially well, despite his all his DMV AAU connections?

Based on Hop’s performance at UW. By all means Id prefer a national search. But we have little to believe he’d be a better head coach on the east coast aside from speculation.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Based on Hop’s performance at UW. By all means Id prefer a national search. But we have little to believe he’d be a better head coach on the east coast aside from speculation.

If the next HC comes down to a choice between Hop and Autry (or GMac), then we're doomed. Seriously, we'll never be back to where we were.

 

[Jake]

If I don't think that's the way it went down? I believe I've generally summed up pretty much the same deal.

However, "technically," if Mike held firm and didn't budge, etc., affording Kent to honor the agreement which he had every intention of keeping, moreoever, broadcasted to the entire world, there isn't a need for any announcement that Boeheim is staying.

Let me be a little clearer. Hop thought it would be world war three, and that he didn’t think he’d win.

There were signs.

When the coach in waiting is denied a request to go out recruiting a guy he wanted to bring in…that was sorta the last straw.

 

[Trueblue25]

If the next HC comes down to a choice between Hop and Autry (or GMac), then we're doomed. Seriously, we'll never be back to where we were.

I dont disagree, but I’m not seeing much visible strategy. The perception of our program’s dropping and NIL/Portal will only expedite that.

 

[atlanticuse]

And you can throw out 2016-17, because that's when Hop realized that Boeheim wasn't leaving, Hop basically stopped recruiting for Syracuse and was looking for his next job.

2016-17 worried me after I posted.