How does Dino fix the running game? | Page 5 | Syracusefan.com

How does Dino fix the running game?

FasterCuse said:
You bring up a great point about the line assignments being called by the RB. Maybe I just noticed it more because it was different when Dino first arrived, but I remember Donte Strickland being much more vocal, and telling the lineman where to line up and calling out protections than the RBs the last 2 years.
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I've always hated that. The linemen calling out blocks to each other is way better, in my opinion. They see things better than a running back does.
 
HRE Otto IV said:
His O really is a run heavy O by design but in none of the 5 years here has he been able to get the running game really going. So what is the issue? How can it be fixed? When can we expect to see it fixed?

One of these things is not like the others
One of these things just doesn't belong
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

RB only YPG and YPC

#1 161.36 ypg and 5.4 ypc
#2 108.75 ypg and 4.47 ypc
#3 131.9 ypg and 4.99 ypc

#2 adjusted 115.08 ypg and 4.57 ypc
#2 adjusted again 108.35 ypg and 4.55 ypc

So #1 is Dino's RBs combined over his 28 games as BG HC. While #2 is his RBs over his 59 games at SU. The first adjusted number is throwing away this season's numbers. The 2nd adjusted is his 1st three years. For #3 that is the Dino inspired O at Kent State the last three seasons.

It is pretty obvious that the run game has been a failure here. Even in 2018 we only had 143.23 ypg from our RBs. That is our high mark for an O that is designed to have over 150 yards from its RBs. Dino's 1st two years we had under 90 ypg from RBs. We have been a complete failure at running the ball three out of the 5 years. The other two we have been mediocre at best.

Even if next season is mediocre, will it be enough to get us to 6 Ws? Can we expect mediocre given what we have seen this year? Does the system not work in the ACC? or is this all on the OL? if it is the OL, how does it get fixed next year?
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By the way, the topic is a great question for Dino's radio show.
 
money3189 said:
I wouldn't mind more of a emphasis on bigger road grader type lineman.
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I think this is the type the staff has pursued on the interior, but has struggled to develop them for one reason or another.

White, Tisdale, Ilaoa all profiled as road grading interior lineman in terms of recent recruit when I watched their HS film (haven't watched this years crop yet).

It seems Dino likes to grow his tackles and recruit road grading interior lineman. Whether it is coaching, the up tempo or what-not, not sure there has been a developed interior lineman that I consider an above average run blocker, which is at the core of what this offense needs to function (pass block on the outside, pull athletic tackles to run block to get to the 2nd level and interior wins inside on the run game).

I think the staff has moved towards best 5 play (even if they are out of position) vs. the best at their respective position. Personally think one of the issues is the over cross-training of players on the OL.
 
timkay99 said:
I think the staff has moved towards best 5 play (even if they are out of position) vs. the best at their respective position. Personally think one of the issues is the over cross-training of players on the OL.
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I totally agree on this. Offensive line play requires muscle memory, and coordination with your other linemen. You only get that through repetition.

You don't want players thinking too much on offense. Of course some thinking is involved in lining up, reading the defense and remembering your personal responsibilities on that play call.

If you train a guy for 3 different positions on the line, you get none of the smooth function that is gained from hundreds of reps, and you slow down the player's mental processing by making him remember his assignment for this position, for this play. It's just asking too much.
 
QB sets protection, it’s a big component for them to understand. Line communicates based off that call.

That’s the tried and true method.
 
timkay99 said:
I think this is the type the staff has pursued on the interior, but has struggled to develop them for one reason or another.

White, Tisdale, Ilaoa all profiled as road grading interior lineman in terms of recent recruit when I watched their HS film (haven't watched this years crop yet).

It seems Dino likes to grow his tackles and recruit road grading interior lineman. Whether it is coaching, the up tempo or what-not, not sure there has been a developed interior lineman that I consider an above average run blocker, which is at the core of what this offense needs to function (pass block on the outside, pull athletic tackles to run block to get to the 2nd level and interior wins inside on the run game).

I think the staff has moved towards best 5 play (even if they are out of position) vs. the best at their respective position. Personally think one of the issues is the over cross-training of players on the OL.
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Those are good observations that I’ve never thought about. It makes sense. Just needs to work now. Lol.
 
timkay99 said:
I think this is the type the staff has pursued on the interior, but has struggled to develop them for one reason or another.

White, Tisdale, Ilaoa all profiled as road grading interior lineman in terms of recent recruit when I watched their HS film (haven't watched this years crop yet).

It seems Dino likes to grow his tackles and recruit road grading interior lineman. Whether it is coaching, the up tempo or what-not, not sure there has been a developed interior lineman that I consider an above average run blocker, which is at the core of what this offense needs to function (pass block on the outside, pull athletic tackles to run block to get to the 2nd level and interior wins inside on the run game).

I think the staff has moved towards best 5 play (even if they are out of position) vs. the best at their respective position. Personally think one of the issues is the over cross-training of players on the OL.
Expand...

timkay99

Who on the roster do you think profiles best to be the Center going forward? Last year it was an issue obviously with Heckel going down until Vet cam in, but he's been struggling with snaps this year.
 
IthacaMatt said:
I totally agree on this. Offensive line play requires muscle memory, and coordination with your other linemen. You only get that through repetition.

You don't want players thinking too much on offense. Of course some thinking is involved in lining up, reading the defense and remembering your personal responsibilities on that play call.

If you train a guy for 3 different positions on the line, you get none of the smooth function that is gained from hundreds of reps, and you slow down the player's mental processing by making him remember his assignment for this position, for this play. It's just asking too much.
Expand...
Correct. Jack of all trades= master of none.
 
and then you hear team after team talking about how great it was they cross trained because of injuries.. lots of teams do it.. it works better when the players are better.

keep coming back to the fact the oline is not practicing this year and really hasnt since the start of spring practice.. you cant do the practice you need with no bodies..
 
HRE Otto IV said:
His O really is a run heavy O by design but in none of the 5 years here has he been able to get the running game really going. So what is the issue? How can it be fixed? When can we expect to see it fixed?

One of these things is not like the others
One of these things just doesn't belong
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

RB only YPG and YPC

#1 161.36 ypg and 5.4 ypc
#2 108.75 ypg and 4.47 ypc
#3 131.9 ypg and 4.99 ypc

#2 adjusted 115.08 ypg and 4.57 ypc
#2 adjusted again 108.35 ypg and 4.55 ypc

So #1 is Dino's RBs combined over his 28 games as BG HC. While #2 is his RBs over his 59 games at SU. The first adjusted number is throwing away this season's numbers. The 2nd adjusted is his 1st three years. For #3 that is the Dino inspired O at Kent State the last three seasons.

It is pretty obvious that the run game has been a failure here. Even in 2018 we only had 143.23 ypg from our RBs. That is our high mark for an O that is designed to have over 150 yards from its RBs. Dino's 1st two years we had under 90 ypg from RBs. We have been a complete failure at running the ball three out of the 5 years. The other two we have been mediocre at best.

Even if next season is mediocre, will it be enough to get us to 6 Ws? Can we expect mediocre given what we have seen this year? Does the system not work in the ACC? or is this all on the OL? if it is the OL, how does it get fixed next year?
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Those are good numbers for a single running back's career. But if you have just one running back, that's your whole running game and those numbers aren't all that great for a team's whole rushing attack.
 
upperdeck said:
and then you hear team after team talking about how great it was they cross trained because of injuries.. lots of teams do it.. it works better when the players are better.

keep coming back to the fact the oline is not practicing this year and really hasnt since the start of spring practice.. you cant do the practice you need with no bodies..
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Yeah, we used to hear about the oline cross training under P&D all the time.
 
kcsu said:
La Familia!
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Lol! It does seem the right philosophy on the field, though. Dysfunctional familia? Not so much. My understanding is the oline/qbs are pretty tight off the field. Its not translating on the field. Family off the field, not on. The want is there.

Thats messed up. Something is messed up, and nothing is going to change until it's fixed.
 
syrBossHogg said:
timkay99

Who on the roster do you think profiles best to be the Center going forward? Last year it was an issue obviously with Heckel going down until Vet cam in, but he's been struggling with snaps this year.
Expand...

I don't have enough information to throw anything out there, as I have the same references of information everyone else has (no practice info from previous years and definitely nothing this year).

Staff, through recruiting, believes they can convert a player to center. I haven't done the work to understand if that is reasonable or not from how other teams recruit and where their starting C came from in HS/how quickly they converted to C (would think it is). I am just not sure what attributes the center needs, especially as we have seen a rise in 3 man DL's and a physical DT lining up over the center (let alone how easy/hard it is to teach someone to shotgun snap with accuracy and velocity).
 
timkay99 said:
I don't have enough information to throw anything out there, as I have the same references of information everyone else has (no practice info from previous years and definitely nothing this year).

Staff, through recruiting, believes they can convert a player to center. I haven't done the work to understand if that is reasonable or not from how other teams recruit and where their starting C came from in HS/how quickly they converted to C (would think it is). I am just not sure what attributes the center needs, especially as we have seen a rise in 3 man DL's and a physical DT lining up over the center (let alone how easy/hard it is to teach someone to shotgun snap with accuracy and velocity).
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I dont think there is one way to do it. Im not sure how many centers in college played the position in HS but I hear a lot about guys moving to that position and having success. Its more about seeing the qualities in the player and developing them. One example is the center for Buffalo. Mike Novitsky. He is on some national lists. I coached against him in HS. He has never played center. He was a TE and DE. Our walk on center Josh Kosciol was a LB in HS and Ive heard good things about him at center. Just a couple examples off the top of my head.
 
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1606932160094.jpeg
 
money3189 said:
Wow, we are not last. We are actally ahead of some good teams like Indiana and UCF
www.pff.com

College Football: Ranking all 127 FBS offensive lines through CFB Week 13 | College Football | PFF

PFF ranks every FBS offensive line from No. 1 to No. 127. Notre Dame tops the list, the Oklahoma Sooners just beat out the Alabama Crimson Tide for the No. 8 spot and Iowa rounds out the top 10.
www.pff.com www.pff.com
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Buffalo #3 in the nation. Sign me up for Lance Leipold or at least his OL coach. Very few positions depend on development as much as OL.
 
money3189 said:
Wow, we are not last. We are actally ahead of some good teams like Indiana and UCF
www.pff.com

College Football: Ranking all 127 FBS offensive lines through CFB Week 13 | College Football | PFF

PFF ranks every FBS offensive line from No. 1 to No. 127. Notre Dame tops the list, the Oklahoma Sooners just beat out the Alabama Crimson Tide for the No. 8 spot and Iowa rounds out the top 10.
www.pff.com www.pff.com
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2 points on this:
1. Indiana OL was ranked 124 out of 127. How are they scoring points? A very good Dual-threat QB. Sound familiar?
2. We can tell Mackenzie Milton if he comes here he'll get a better OL than where he is :)
 
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orangepassion said:
Buffalo #3 in the nation. Sign me up for Lance Leipold or at least his OL coach. Very few positions depend on development as much as OL.
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What scheme do they run? They rush 70% of the time. Passing offense is 188 yds a game(#101). Although, when they do pass? The oline is #1 in pressures allowed.

Oline coached NDSU lines for 3 FCS championships. All American linemen himself.

Scott Fuchs - Offensive Line - Football Coaches - University at Buffalo

Scott Fuchs, a 25-year veteran of college coaching, enters his second season as offensive line coach at the University at Buffalo. Fuchs came to Buffalo after spending
ubbulls.com ubbulls.com
.
 
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RandomGuy said:
What scheme do they run? They rush 70% of the time. Passing offense is 188 yds a game(#101). Although, when they do pass? The oline is #1 in pressures allowed.
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Spread. 2 lineman, the FB and the TE are all starters and all from Rochester. :(
 
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