How it ends: Going out on a whimper

[Orangezoo]

You guys are battling for 4th. I can’t believe how your arrogant manager stripped the captaincy of Auba actually worked.
After the first 3 matches of this year I thought arsenal was a bottom 5 team but they are in position to be a 4th place club.

Arsenal has ownership issues.
Syracuse has a coach who doesn’t want to adapt and can’t be find a way to be sympathetic with his arrogance. Syracuse is hurting itself a lot.

Battling yes- this year has been better but 4th feels like the ceiling for this club right now. Wenger wasn't great and the year in year out failures vs top clubs and feasting on the bottom half of thr table sucked yet the talent levels were more than capable to be back at the top of the PL and competing for UCL titles vs just making a quarterfinal.

 

[CardiacCuse]

My frustration is that this is all simply a failure of roster construction, talent acquisition and player retention. He’s still a great strategist and in-game coach and has one of the best minds in the game. But he’s struggled to assemble the kind of talent he needs to execute what he wants to do on both offense and defense. He should listen to his assistant coaches more on roster construction and talent retention. I’m sure they were begging him to handle Kadary, Woody, Griffin and others differently. And it’s an abject failure to have the gift of the transfer portal and then not take full advantage of it like he failed to last season. We needed some players who were good at both offense and defense.

i feel like overall...JB has become a "system guy" (not sure if he was always like that - I dont think he was as he didn't used to play zone all the time)

he has "fine-tuned" his system...so that it is the same year to year. there are plusses and minuses to this.

I guess most coaches have a system that doesnt change...but not all do.

Personally, I think it is better to fit the system to the talent available ...not vice versa.

when JB has his perfect roster...his system is great.

when he doesnt have his matching roster...its not really working.and since talent acquisition hasnt been good lately ...his players arent good enough to play his system accurately...and he doesnt have answers to that.

his approach has gotten more and more robotic and more and more autopilot...more detached from the reality of what his team is doing.

For instance, puttin gjoe back in vs UVA was pretty much game over...but in his eyes, he did it anyway. not sure why.

rigidly doing things because that is his system or whatever doesnt seem the way forward. i think there is the possibility that the system is just a crutch. it makes it easier to make decisions and schemes...without having to actually think.

without a bench, it makes it very hard to be a good ingame strategist...but i think this fromer strength is not as strong as it once was for JB.

For the life of me, cannot understand how anyone could watch the houston vs syracuse sweet sixteen game and go less athletic with next years roster. it shows that there is just a failure to accurately see what is happening with the program on the court imo.

there are good things about the system...when its highly polished, the team functions very well on defense and the coach can impact games very well.

but now at this point, teams like uva and teams like colgate now apparently, know how to attack the system and its weak points and they can adjust to it better than the team itself can. its become a weakness when it was supposed to be a strength.

slight adjustments like going 1-1-3 threw opponents off...it shows that being unpredicatable and not sticking to one set way...has a lot of benefits.

is JB only around now because he couldnt coach any other way? is the job so hard that he needs his system to even stay around? because right now it doesnt seem the system he employs is truly enhancing win chances...

 

[Niastri]

Red's Resume:

In 2006, Autry and his family moved to Northern Virginia. In Northern Virginia, Autry began his coaching career as the associate head coach at Bishop Ireton Catholic High School. In the spring of 2007, Autry became involved in the AAU circuit, by becoming the coach of the 14-Under squad with NOVA United.

During the 2007-2008 school year, Autry was named an assistant coach at Paul VI High School. In 2008, Autry switched AAU teams and became an assistant coach for the 17-Under AAU squad Team Takeover.

In the fall of 2008, Autry was hired by Virginia Tech's Head Men's Basketball coach Seth Greenberg as the Director of Basketball Operations. Autry held that position for two years and was then promoted to assistant basketball coach for the Hokies. In the spring of 2010, Autry was on his way to the University of Dayton to become the associate head coach under Archie Miller. However, he never made it there. A position with his alma mater Syracuse University became available when Rob Murphy was named the head coach at Eastern Michigan University. Autry quickly accepted the position and remains there now. Autry currently coaches and develops the forwards position.

Coaching career (HC unless noted)
2006–2007	Bishop Ireton HS (associate HC)
2007–2008	Paul VI HS (assistant)
2008–2010	Virginia Tech (director of basketball ops.)
2010–2011	Virginia Tech (assistant)
2011–2016	Syracuse (assistant)
2016–present	Syracuse (associate HC)

GMac's resume:

On July 22, 2009, McNamara joined the basketball team's coaching staff as a graduate manager. In November 2011, McNamara was promoted to assistant coach, with a focus on development of the guards.

Coaching career (HC unless noted)
2009–2011	Syracuse (grad mgr.)
2011–present	Syracuse (asst.)

I don't understand why everyone thinks the #2 assistant will get promoted over the more experienced #1 assistant.

Neither has a single season as a head coach outside of AAU and we think they can compete in the ACC? Does JB? It seems like a huge mistake in the making.

There are very limited circumstances where anybody oh the current staff should be considered at all.

For instance, JB retires January 1st next year at 7-6... Autry becomes interim head coach and goes 20-3 the rest of the way going to both the ACC and NCAA finals. He also recruits three top 30 players. Ok, let's give him his shot, he earned it.

 

[RandygoCuse]

If many of you are like me as a Syracuse fan, you’ve probably thought about how JB’s career would end. I think we always imagined he’d go out with a bang. 35k+ in his final game in the Dome. A deep run in the NCAAt, possibly ending with a Final Four. Storybook ending if he could do it with his sons on the floor. Going out with a big bang as he rides off into the sunset.

But it’s becoming all too evident that he’s going out with a whimper. A very long, slow, drawn out whimper. There will be no deep NCAA tournament run. If he doesn’t announce his retirement before the end of the year, there won’t be 35k in the Dome to send him off. It’s looking like JB’s career will end on a first round game at the ACC tournament. Very anti-climactic. A bit sad. Not a Hollywood ending.

Oh, and for those that think he’ll be around next year, he won’t be. His only motivation to coach over the past four years was Buddy. With both Jimmy and Buddy moving on, he has no motivation to coach anymore. Heck, he’s barely had the motivation in the past decade.

It will all be over soon. The whimper that ends a 45 year run. The whimper that lasted 5 years too long.

I agree with most of this except that I don't think this will be his last year. I just get the feeling he doesn't want to quit yet.

 

[Orangezoo]

Has Red gotten inquiries or looked from other programs? If the answer is a resounding no, that alone concerns me with him. As for Gerry- just hard to see him as a HC.

 

[rrlbees]

The concern I have with both Red and GMac is that they have been part of the slide over the past 5 years. Primarily poor recruiting. Also, if either are named next head coach they’d most likely not change anything about the program, just an extension of JB’s system. JB’s system is old and doesn’t work in today’s version of college basketball.

You don’t see UNC running the 4 Corners because “Dean Smith is UNC Basketball”

New blood, new direction. Clean slate is what is needed.

However, I’m 90% sure JW will keep it in house and most likely give it to Red. Probably the wrong decision, but it’s the decision he’s going to make.

Unc probably doesn’t run the 4 corners because of the shot clock.

 

[MikeSU02]

Unc probably doesn’t run the 4 corners because of the shot clock.

I legit LOL'd at that.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

Unc probably doesn’t run the 4 corners because of the shot clock.

Look up

 

[jdubs30]

For all saying that Red/GMac are part of the current mess, while that’s true, I have to imagine things right now are JBs way or the highway.

It’s possible Red and GMac would sub differently , run more plays, change defenses, etc.

Also try recruiting when we don’t have our HC their but someone else does.

We heard several assistants were pissed about Kadary leaving. Maybe with Red/GMac it never even becomes an issue

I have to imagine JB has final say over everything especially roster construction. I don’t think we should lump in Red/GMac assuming they have an equal hand in this

 

[Cuse_NYC]

Categorically untrue. His retirement was late in the game and strategically forced Warde Manuel to settle for his choice as successor. The athletic department at the time was anticipating his retirement in the next few years but it was a shock to everyone in the know (including people close to me.) They were also apparently back channel discussions with Shaka Smart about succeeding Calhoun however I don’t have secondhand knowledge of that.

With regards to court, when you have another basketball coach with an even more impressive resume I’m pretty sure that was never in play. Calhoun still has an office in the practice facility which he regularly uses and they renamed the street outside Gampel after him when he retired. Calhoun has never been good about hiding his opinion and you better believe he would have lashed out if he was forced out.

I would stick up for JB in pretty much the same way. But as in the know as you seem to be, you know the court wasn’t named after him for a Reason.

 

[rottweiler44]

For all saying that Red/GMac are part of the current mess, while that’s true, I have to imagine things right now are JBs way or the highway.

It’s possible Red and GMac would sub differently , run more plays, change defenses, etc.

Also try recruiting when we don’t have our HC their but someone else does.

We heard several assistants were pissed about Kadary leaving. Maybe with Red/GMac it never even becomes an issue

I have to imagine JB has final say over everything especially roster construction. I don’t think we should lump in Red/GMac assuming they have an equal hand in this

I think you are correct. I am not arguing whether they are qualified or not, but it's not certain they would do things the same as JB. According to a recruiting site Braswell, Newton, Richmond and Edwards were all landed by lead recruiter Autry. I can't imagine he was thrilled after last year's exodus. GMAC landed Girard and now Copeland. The way things played out kind of lend credence to the GMAC rumor...

 

[Bulldog04]

JB cant stand Oats.
Oats will not be offered let alone hired.

I’m gonna trust my intel over your guess. The new head coach isn’t going to be JBs call. He tried that with Gmac and didn’t happen.

 

[Nicknack]

I’m gonna trust my intel over your guess. The new head coach isn’t going to be JBs call. He tried that with Gmac and didn’t happen.

I hope that's true, bulldog. I mean no disrespect to Jim, but this shouldn't be his call. Not at all. Yes, he should give input, but that's it. If he was leaving the program in solid shape after a flurry of top 25 finishes, recruiting good, top 4-5 in the ACC, etc., then okay. But why now, should we look to Jim for answers. I would hope, that if he had the answers, he would be doing that now.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Just want to point out that your singling out of 2002-2008 as some kind of down era, except for the 2003 national championship year, completely leaves out the major successes of 2004 (tied for #3 in the Big East, #5 NCAA seed, Sweet 16), 2005 (#3 in the Big East, Big East tourney champs, #4 NCAA seed) and 2006 (Big East tourney champs and #6 NCAA seed). The NITs in 2007 and 08 weren’t seen as part of an extended down era. (We also got infamously robbed from an NCAA bid in 2007.)

I am totally not contradicting anything you're saying here and prolly shouldn't be quoting you... But, part of this post raises an example of why i will always push back against citing "Sweet 16" as some sort of major accomplishment.

In that partic'lar tournament, as a 5, we beat a 12 seed BYU, and then a 4 Maryland.

If we look at that objectively, and without the gleam of "March" applied to it, is that a significant set of games on which to characterize a season? If we had beaten BYU in November, would it mean the same thing? We did beat a 1 seed higher Maryland, but one could argue 4s and 5s are interchangeable. But, even if we don't, and we take credit for winning 'up' a grade, we then lost to a lower seed at the next step.

My point isn't that we weren't good that year. It's that the 5 seed is the data. The season record is the data. Who we beat and how, and who we lost to and how. And how we were perceived by anyone who might later be in a position to be recruited by us or express interest in us. The designation "Sweet 16" is just a television marketing department's creation. It means you won two games. Period. That, to me, should be our baseline standard, but i'll admit i'm spoiled, having come to Syracuse in 1985...

Going further, the tournament represents the very nature of "small sample size" as a denigration of anything 'statistical.' The season is the thing, in my opinion, and i accept argument that the season is the training ground for learning how to win in March. But, i'll take a 25-5 team that loses in the first round over a 17-13 team that gets disparaged all year in the media, then waddles in off the bubble and wins two over teams that are also not so impressive.

 

[007]

For all saying that Red/GMac are part of the current mess, while that’s true, I have to imagine things right now are JBs way or the highway.

It’s possible Red and GMac would sub differently , run more plays, change defenses, etc.

Also try recruiting when we don’t have our HC their but someone else does.

We heard several assistants were pissed about Kadary leaving. Maybe with Red/GMac it never even becomes an issue

I have to imagine JB has final say over everything especially roster construction. I don’t think we should lump in Red/GMac assuming they have an equal hand in this

Good post. All you have to do is watch any time out. JB runs the entire show and the assistants stand in the back.

 

[CousCuse]

OP's date nights go out on a whimper.

 

[Newhouser]

I’m gonna trust my intel over your guess. The new head coach isn’t going to be JBs call. He tried that with Gmac and didn’t happen.

I believe your scenario. What I don't understand is why Red stayed after it became known?

 

[Bulldog04]

I believe your scenario. What I don't understand is why Red stayed after it became known?

Where’s he gonna go with a better gig than cuse? And he’s such a good dude too that he would never just leave out of jealousy or being irrational. I wish people really got to know Red. He truly is a great frickin dude with so much charisma and positivity. And he knows basketball.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

OP's date nights go out on a whimper.

Took you two days and 6 pages of comments to come up with that zinger?

 

[Toronto Cuse]

Which era of JB are we looking to upgrade? If you say 1976 to 2014, I agree. If we're talking 2017- 2022, I don't think an upgrade is far-fetched.

And before anyone jumps on me, JB is rightfully a HOF coach and deserves all the reverie he gets, but saying he isn't the coach he once was shouldn't be seen as an attack on him or diminish his accomplishments one bit. But, there comes a time in everyone's career when it is time to move on. Most people can make that decision on their own while others have to be told by their boss.

Let’s not say until 2014 and after 2017 to conveniently leave out the final four. What if we evaluated 2016-2022? Are you expecting an upgrade from that? Do we all prefer the Tyler Ennis year in 2014 to the final four year in 2016? I’m just trying to understand. We’d all prefer to be ranked in December than peak in March?

 

[Toga]

I am totally not contradicting anything you're saying here and prolly shouldn't be quoting you... But, part of this post raises an example of why i will always push back against citing "Sweet 16" as some sort of major accomplishment.

In that partic'lar tournament, as a 5, we beat a 12 seed BYU, and then a 4 Maryland.

If we look at that objectively, and without the gleam of "March" applied to it, is that a significant set of games on which to characterize a season? If we had beaten BYU in November, would it mean the same thing? We did beat a 1 seed higher Maryland, but one could argue 4s and 5s are interchangeable. But, even if we don't, and we take credit for winning 'up' a grade, we then lost to a lower seed at the next step.

My point isn't that we weren't good that year. It's that the 5 seed is the data. The season record is the data. Who we beat and how, and who we lost to and how. And how we were perceived by anyone who might later be in a position to be recruited by us or express interest in us. The designation "Sweet 16" is just a television marketing department's creation. It means you won two games. Period. That, to me, should be our baseline standard, but i'll admit i'm spoiled, having come to Syracuse in 1985...

Going further, the tournament represents the very nature of "small sample size" as a denigration of anything 'statistical.' The season is the thing, in my opinion, and i accept argument that the season is the training ground for learning how to win in March. But, i'll take a 25-5 team that loses in the first round over a 17-13 team that gets disparaged all year in the media, then waddles in off the bubble and wins two over teams that are also not so impressive.

Second round. But yeah.

 

[Zelda Zonk]

Let’s not say until 2014 and after 2017 to conveniently leave out the final four. What if we evaluated 2016-2022? Are you expecting an upgrade from that? Do we all prefer the Tyler Ennis year in 2014 to the final four year in 2016? I’m just trying to understand. We’d all prefer to be ranked in December than peak in March?

You're making assumptions and leaps in logic that haven't been suggested or asserted.

The conversation is more generalized than one that cherrypicks singular positive results within a cluster of years. What's your overall take on the last ten years? Not 2014, not 2016. Because the things that sustain and advance a program are not the singular, random, outlier events. They're the continuity of excellence that lead to signing better players in consecutive, multiple years.

Secondly, being ranked in December vs peaking in March? Well, one doesn't preclude the other. As well, i'm sure no one want to be ranked only for two weeks in December, to correspond to the two week "peak" in March. We're talking about sustained quality. Being ranked for months or a season is more important toward sustaining excellence than bubbling and then winning two games against unimpressive, non-marquis teams. Our fans must think recruits pay the same types of attentions to what we do as we do. If we are a middling team, unranked for 90% of a season, we get zero ESPN highlights. The schedulemakers don't pay attention to us so we get no nationally televised games. How many highschoolers are seeking us out on Bally or ACCN? You think that we're an attractive program because we beat two also-rans in March and get to a "Sweet 16"—that makes the kids clamor to play for us? We are getting players from 25 to 125, and then saying we have a good class because we have quantity. And then most of those kids don't play much to start out, and then they transfer, and we repeat the cycle. We've been in that loop for a decade, and the record reflects that.

Talent is a positive feedback machine. Our gears are not propelling us toward better things.

 

[CousCuse]

Took you two days and 6 pages of comments to come up with that zinger?

No, thought of it when you first posted the thread, but all of you anti-Boeheim agenda people were in full flying monkey mode so I thought I shouldn't stir up things even more. Then the thread kept going and I said, what the hell. I get it, we lose to Virginia and it's the end of the season. Virginia happens to be a very tough team who has a lot of talent that is coming together and put together a complete game the other night and ended up winning a tight game that SU would have won had they made a few more freethrow's or 1 more 3.

 

[MSOrange]

Let’s not say until 2014 and after 2017 to conveniently leave out the final four. What if we evaluated 2016-2022? Are you expecting an upgrade from that? Do we all prefer the Tyler Ennis year in 2014 to the final four year in 2016? I’m just trying to understand. We’d all prefer to be ranked in December than peak in March?

Those were great runs and I enjoyed them. If I had to choose, I'd pick NCAA tourney success over regular season success. Yes we've managed to do well as a lower seed, but it's still the exception to the rule for lower seeds to do well. Typically, regular season success leads to NCAA success.

 

[CuseCPT]

Let’s not say until 2014 and after 2017 to conveniently leave out the final four. What if we evaluated 2016-2022? Are you expecting an upgrade from that? Do we all prefer the Tyler Ennis year in 2014 to the final four year in 2016? I’m just trying to understand. We’d all prefer to be ranked in December than peak in March?

We didn't use to have to choose one or the other.