How many years are fans willing to give JB to turn this around?

[Bayside44]

Cmon on man.

Talent has been a huge advantage.

Also we had a better offense before. It has deteriorated and if it has deteriorated because of talent that is on the coach who was mailing in recruiting.

How many one and done's have we had - that were honestly planned for? The only guy on that list was CMAC, who wasn't very good and we lost him for that season anyway.

We've been losing kids a year or two before due date for some seasons now.

 

[Alsacs]

How many one and done's have we had - that were honestly planned for? The only guy on that list was CMAC, who wasn't very good and we lost him for that season anyway.

We've been losing kids a year or two before due date for some seasons now.

Okay but why haven't we used all our available scholarships every year since 2013.

We have been reduced in scholarships and still haven't used all of those available scholarships.

JB wasn't engaged in recruiting like he has been this cycle.
The roster this year is because of JB.

This season isn't going to frustrate me because I see it coming. I just want recruiting to get more studs.

 

[chugg21]

Imagine Syracuse firing Jim Boeheim lol. I'm not saying it's impossible or anything but good lord that's crazy to think about.

Gary Williams, Jim Calhoun, Bobby Bowden...not officially fired but definitely didn't "retire" by choice. Think that ending is more common then not for these long time legends in their 70s.

 

[DoctorBombay]

FIRE JB

NOW!!!:bat:

 

[moqui]

The last three years were seriously impacted by those sanctions. Yes, JB has to be held accountable for that - I happen to think JB should have been fired over the incidents in the sanctions report. But that is a question of his administrative presence, not his coaching acumen or his ability to identify talent.

I would suggest that people ignore the recent past. The last 3 seasons were directly and heavily impacted by sanctions. But the next few look very promising. Alsacs I think you are dead wrong about this year's roster. I don't expect to be at the top of the conference this season, but there are guys on this roster who will pay big dividends down the road. Brissett and Moyer both look like they will be long term productive rotation pieces. Sidibe has the tools to be the best Syracuse center since Etan Thomas. Hughes is super athletic and will be a finisher and a defensive stopper. next year brings Buddy, who could be our best shooter since Matt Roe. And of course Bazley, who is the kind of stud forward that most of JB's best teams have been built around. there are big things happening here just as we emerge from the heaviest of the sanctions.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Look I don't want to be "that guy" but sanctions aren't everything. When you string together a couple mediocre to bad recruiting classes this is what happens. It happened in the mid 2000's and its happening now. Fortunately we hae a solid foundation coming in and a legit 5 star stud player and Bazley and hopefully a couple more top50-types.

 

[Alsacs]

The last three years were seriously impacted by those sanctions. Yes, JB has to be held accountable for that - I happen to think JB should have been fired over the incidents in the sanctions report. But that is a question of his administrative presence, not his coaching acumen or his ability to identify talent.

I would suggest that people ignore the recent past. The last 3 seasons were directly and heavily impacted by sanctions. But the next few look very promising. Alsacs I think you are dead wrong about this year's roster. I don't expect to be at the top of the conference this season, but there are guys on this roster who will pay big dividends down the road. Brissett and Moyer both look like they will be long term productive rotation pieces. Sidibe has the tools to be the best Syracuse center since Etan Thomas. Hughes is super athletic and will be a finisher and a defensive stopper. next year brings Buddy, who could be our best shooter since Matt Roe. And of course Bazley, who is the kind of stud forward that most of JB's best teams have been built around. there are big things happening here just as we emerge from the heaviest of the sanctions.

The team needs to develop.

There is talent but it's not ready to be NCAAT quality unless its drastically better.

The sanctions hurt but they weren't why we haven't used all available scholarships or why we haven't recruited multiple point guards in a class.

JB was lax and the dysfunction behind the scenes with Hopkins is on JB.

He isn't going anywhere but these past years regular seasons have been mediocre.

 

[Brooky03]

Jim Boeheim gets as many years as he wants. If he wants to coach until he dies, then I hope he sets the world record for age.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

The sanctions were arbitrary, capricious, and out of whack with precedent in terms of severity. So one CAN blame the sanctions without blaming JB in equal measure, because the majority of the infractions were minor.

They are his responsibility.

 

[realorange]

We don't change. This is a fact.

If I know exactly how someone is going to behave it is a lot easier to prepare for. Even when we don't have the talent to do what we want to do we still do it the same way.

Our offense doesn't change and our defense doesn't change no matter the talent.

That isn't how it should be. If the talent is there okay do it that way but if the talent isn't there then you have to scheme to what is their strength.

That is my point.

Well, Vince Lombardi and his Packers did it the very same way for many successful years. His attitude was that while teams knew what there plays were it didn't matter as long as they executed as close to perfect as they could.

 

[Alsacs]

Well, Vince Lombardi and his Packers did it the very same way for many successful years. His attitude was that while teams knew what there plays were it didn't matter as long as they executed as close to perfect as they could.

Yeah and today Vince Lombardi's Packers would get their a$$kicked because sports evolve and it wouldn't work as well now.
Football teams don't do the same thing play after play anymore.

Our basketball team shouldn't try to fit a round peg into a square hole. You adapt to what your talent can do.

 

[Brooky03]

They are his responsibility.

The NCAA saying that's the case, doesn't make it so.

There was practically nothing JB could have done to prevent the infractions that the program was dinged for. "Promoting a culture of compliance" is not a real thing that real people can really do in real life.

 

[HOFCeluck]

The NCAA saying that's the case, doesn't make it so.

There was practically nothing JB could have done to prevent the infractions that the program was dinged for. "Promoting a culture of compliance" is not a real thing that real people can really do in real life.

Lol

 

[UnknownOrange]

The NCAA saying that's the case, doesn't make it so.

There was practically nothing JB could have done to prevent the infractions that the program was dinged for. "Promoting a culture of compliance" is not a real thing that real people can really do in real life.

Nothing, huh?

 

[Brooky03]

Nothing, huh?

What could he have done? Not allowed to know about Fab Melo's academics. You could try to blame the hiring of the director of basketball ops on Boeheim, but it's not like there were indications the guy would do shady crap. Can't put Edelin getting paid at the Y on Boeheim. Can't put Southerland's thing on Boeheim cuz that was also academic. And the positive drug tests weren't part of the infractions we were punished for. What's left?

 

[HOFCeluck]

What could he have done? Not allowed to know about Fab Melo's academics. You could try to blame the hiring of the director of basketball ops on Boeheim, but it's not like there were indications the guy would do shady crap. Can't put Edelin getting paid at the Y on Boeheim. Can't put Southerland's thing on Boeheim cuz that was also academic. And the positive drug tests weren't part of the infractions we were punished for. What's left?

Ultimately if he's the "CEO" of the program like so may have said before the sanctions then yeah he is responsible for the people he hires and what goes down under his watch.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I don't want to belabor this too much longer. Sanctions played a part but I think it is also a perfect storm of guys not ready declaring and being somehow viewed as NBA prospects, poor recruiting, coaching, etc.

Sanctions I believe made this place unattractive and an easy target to recruit against. Rarely are all coaches on the road simultaneously so, IMO, that shouldn't be a valid excuse as mentioned by Francis and others in the know.

Dajuan never being able to contribute and constantly hurt was a major blow. Amazing kid with his drive, work ethic, etc. Unbelievable, really. Guys like Ennis and Lydon nailed it. They weren't going to get better here and improve their draft stock so they bolted. CMac and Malachi probably hurt the team the most since they were bodies with significant upside if they stayed another year or two, IMO.

But, the 2013 class was pre-sanctions and was an absolute debacle. When four of those guys never did much (including Robey) or left then it is hard to recover from that. Sanctions has nothing to do with that.

Sanctions has nothing to do with not being able to draw up something on offense to be able to beat UConn in the game that set the game 0f basketball back a few decades. UConn has two significant players out, doesn't even have a FG the last two minutes of the game (!!), and it is a dire struggle to get to 50 points. Sanctions has nothing to do with getting slaughtered and quitting early in the games by St. John's/BC1/ND. Much of this is on the coaches, imo. The team showed some heart in those comebacks @a bad NC St. and a decent Clemson team but the damage was already done from those other games mentioned above.

I'm much more concerned with quality of play this season than W/L frankly. I have no idea what to expect from this team. I just want to see players looking like they know what they are doing, having some sort of alternate plan and ability to adjust if a team plays tough M2M and overplays passing lanes like South Carolina, etc. I don't care how many new pieces you have. Players need to be able to know what they are doing out there and not look lost with everybody standing around. That's coaching and entirely unacceptable at this level, even in December, to be looking like that.

I definitely like some of the pieces for sure like Brissett, Bourama, Marek, etc. Battle will be fantastic but I hope he doesn't wear down and somebody else can emerge to shoulder the load. LGO!

 

[Brooky03]

Ultimately if he's the "CEO" of the program like so may have said before the sanctions then yeah he is responsible for the people he hires and what goes down under his watch.

Rght, that's the corporate response and line of thought. Again, that doesn't make it so. CEO's are fired for crap their employees do because they need a 'fall guy' for PR purposes. Not because the CEO is a dirtball.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I don't want to belabor this too much longer. Sanctions played a part but I think it is also a perfect storm of guys not ready declaring and being somehow viewed as NBA prospects, poor recruiting, coaching, etc.

Sanctions I believe made this place unattractive and an easy target to recruit against. Rarely are all coaches on the road simultaneously so, IMO, that shouldn't be a valid excuse as mentioned by Francis and others in the know.

Dajuan never being able to contribute and constantly hurt was a major blow. Amazing kid with his drive, work ethic, etc. Unbelievable, really. Guys like Ennis and Lydon nailed it. They weren't going to get better here and improve their draft stock so they bolted. CMac and Malachi probably hurt the team the most since they were bodies with significant upside if they stayed another year or two, IMO.

But, the 2013 class was pre-sanctions and was an absolute debacle. When four of those guys never did much (including Robey) or left then it is hard to recover from that. Sanctions has nothing to do with that.

Sanctions has nothing to do with not being able to draw up something on offense to be able to beat UConn in the game that set the game 0f basketball back a few decades. UConn has two significant players out, doesn't even have a FG the last two minutes of the game (!!), and it is a dire struggle to get to 50 points. Sanctions has nothing to do with quitting and getting slaughtered in the games by St. John's/BC1/ND. Much of this is on the coaches, imo. The team showed some heart in those comebacks @a bad NC St. and a decent Clemson team but the damage was already done with those other games mentioned above.

I'm much more concerned with quality of play this season than W/L frankly. I have no idea what to expect from this team. I just want to see players looking like they know what they are doing, having some sort of alternate plan and ability to adjust if a team plays tough M2M and overplays passing lanes like South Carolina, etc. I don't care how many new pieces you have. Players need to be able to know what they are doing out there and not look lost with everybody standing around. That's coaching and entirely unacceptable at this level, even in December, to be looking like that.

I definitely like some of the pieces for sure like Brissett, Bourama, Marek, etc. Battle will be fantastic but I hope he doesn't wear down and somebody else can emerge to shoulder the load. LGO!

I just wonder if some/most of the offensive ineptitude can be chalked up to not having a PG.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I just wonder if some/most of the offensive ineptitude can be chalked up to not having a PG.

I think it's a factor for sure.

 

[Cuse'91]

Years?! Who said anything about years Kemosabe...

 

[ebucklewis]

I don't want to belabor this too much longer. Sanctions played a part but I think it is also a perfect storm of guys not ready declaring and being somehow viewed as NBA prospects, poor recruiting, coaching, etc.

Sanctions I believe made this place unattractive and an easy target to recruit against. Rarely are all coaches on the road simultaneously so, IMO, that shouldn't be a valid excuse as mentioned by Francis and others in the know.

Dajuan never being able to contribute and constantly hurt was a major blow. Amazing kid with his drive, work ethic, etc. Unbelievable, really. Guys like Ennis and Lydon nailed it. They weren't going to get better here and improve their draft stock so they bolted. CMac and Malachi probably hurt the team the most since they were bodies with significant upside if they stayed another year or two, IMO.

But, the 2013 class was pre-sanctions and was an absolute debacle. When four of those guys never did much (including Robey) or left then it is hard to recover from that. Sanctions has nothing to do with that.

Sanctions has nothing to do with not being able to draw up something on offense to be able to beat UConn in the game that set the game 0f basketball back a few decades. UConn has two significant players out, doesn't even have a FG the last two minutes of the game (!!), and it is a dire struggle to get to 50 points. Sanctions has nothing to do with quitting and getting slaughtered in the games by St. John's/BC1/ND. Much of this is on the coaches, imo. The team showed some heart in those comebacks @a bad NC St. and a decent Clemson team but the damage was already done with those other games mentioned above.

I'm much more concerned with quality of play this season than W/L frankly. I have no idea what to expect from this team. I just want to see players looking like they know what they are doing, having some sort of alternate plan and ability to adjust if a team plays tough M2M and overplays passing lanes like South Carolina, etc. I don't care how many new pieces you have. Players need to be able to know what they are doing out there and not look lost with everybody standing around. That's coaching and entirely unacceptable at this level, even in December, to be looking like that.

I definitely like some of the pieces for sure like Brissett, Bourama, Marek, etc. Battle will be fantastic but I hope he doesn't wear down and somebody else can emerge to shoulder the load. LGO!

Nice post.. Another aspect of the "perfect storm" you refer to is the fact that the ACC became a much better league than it was before. Obviously the addition of the old big east teams helped - but even the old ACC teams got better - Ga Tech, Va Tech, Miami, Clemson etc..
It's a big boy league right now..

 

[SoBeCuse]

Nice post.. Another aspect of the "perfect storm" you refer to is the fact that the ACC became a much better league than it was before. Obviously the addition of the old big east teams helped - but even the old ACC teams got better - Ga Tech, Va Tech, Miami, Clemson etc..
It's a big boy league right now..

Yup. Especially better offensive teams, more skill, etc. Offensively the team was a little better than in the years past with the good shooters and good FT shooters but still, IMO, it was often hard to watch despite the stats. It just seems like the m.o. more often than not is play good defense and hope a team can't figure out the defense. We don't dictate anything.

 

[Brooky03]

OK fine. JB is blameless. I don't agree with that and I suspect that you feel that way because he's the coach of Syracuse and little else.

Nope. My opinion on matters like this is consistent across the college sports landscape, but I appreciate your presumptuousness.

There's a stark difference between taking responsibility and being responsible. The NCAA blamed JB because they have nobody else to blame and feel an urge to blame somebody for whatever arbitrary reason. JB fell on the sword because that's the expectation. That's taking responsibility. JB couldn't have actively or passively done anything to avoid the infractions, at least the big ones, without possessing a magic time machine that would let him hire a different Director of Basketball Operations. And even that wouldn't be a surefire fix. That falls under the 'being responsible' category. If you can't or couldn't change the things you were punished for, how can you be responsible? It's like punishing your 16 year old for her younger brother breaking a lamp at grandma's house when the 16 year old wasn't even there. Makes zero sense.

Like I said, establishing a culture of compliance is a fantasy land unicorn rainbow thing. It's not a real thing real people do or can do in the college athletics landscape. There are programs who commit infractions and get caught and programs who commit infractions and don't get caught. That's it. That's the realistic take.

 

[llandz]

I say if he has not turned things around by the time he turns 100, then we should cut the ties. 101 is just getting too old to coach. See you at the FF in the next 2-3 years!!!