How many years are fans willing to give JB to turn this around?

[Zepharus]

Love ya, Alsacs, but this is one of the dumbest posts that I have ever seen on the basketball forum.

It all comes down to talent and execution. In the big scheme of things, system is WAY down the list.

I honestly don't mean to call you out, because as you know we are often on the same page. But c'mon...

System is way down the list? Dont tell Babers that...

 

[HOFCeluck]

Nope. My opinion on matters like this is consistent across the college sports landscape, but I appreciate your presumptuousness.

There's a stark difference between taking responsibility and being responsible. The NCAA blamed JB because they have nobody else to blame and feel an urge to blame somebody for whatever arbitrary reason. JB fell on the sword because that's the expectation. That's taking responsibility. JB couldn't have actively or passively done anything to avoid the infractions, at least the big ones, without possessing a magic time machine that would let him hire a different Director of Basketball Operations. And even that wouldn't be a surefire fix. That falls under the 'being responsible' category. If you can't or couldn't change the things you were punished for, how can you be responsible? It's like punishing your 16 year old for her younger brother breaking a lamp at grandma's house when the 16 year old wasn't even there. Makes zero sense.

Like I said, establishing a culture of compliance is a fantasy land unicorn rainbow thing. It's not a real thing real people do or can do in the college athletics landscape. There are programs who commit infractions and get caught and programs who commit infractions and don't get caught. That's it. That's the realistic take.

FWIW I deleted my post because it came off as pretty dickish.

ATD.

 

[UnknownOrange]

What could he have done? Not allowed to know about Fab Melo's academics. You could try to blame the hiring of the director of basketball ops on Boeheim, but it's not like there were indications the guy would do shady crap. Can't put Edelin getting paid at the Y on Boeheim. Can't put Southerland's thing on Boeheim cuz that was also academic. And the positive drug tests weren't part of the infractions we were punished for. What's left?

I can certainly blame Boeheim for his DBO because if you think the DBO does anything the head coach doesn't know about then i'm not sure what to tell you. Also - how do you think players knew about the $$ at the Y? C'mon.

 

[FrancoPizza]

The sanctions were arbitrary, capricious, and out of whack with precedent in terms of severity. So one CAN blame the sanctions without blaming JB in equal measure, because the majority of the infractions were minor.

JB's personality and public relations fiascos made it easy for the NCAA to come down hard.

 

[Ward]

I just wonder if some/most of the offensive ineptitude can be chalked up to not having a PG.

I think it has a huge part to do with it. College basketball revolves around strong guard play, unless you have an absolutely elite front court to offset it. We haven't been able to replace Ennis and it's been a huge head wind. Gbinije was incredible for us in the NCAAT and it resulted in a F4 but other than that our lack of guard play has really hurt us.

The stretch we had of Devo, Jonny, Andy, Scoop, Dion, Brandon, MCW, Ennis really spoiled us in that regard of taking for granted having playmakers who could save bad possessions.

 

[Brooky03]

Also - how do you think players knew about the $$ at the Y? C'mon.

???

What are you suggesting? The question alone makes me think you're not fully aware of the circumstances around the booster paying a few guys money at the Y.

 

[UnknownOrange]

???

What are you suggesting? The question alone makes me think you're not fully aware of the circumstances around the booster paying a few guys money at the Y.

I know all about it. I know it was an internship program and you needed to complete it to finish the child&family studies degree.

I just find it very hard to believe that no one on the basketball staff knew the YMCA employee was a shady character. There are plenty of other places to do your internship and yet basketball players (and football) ended up at that particular Y.

Coincidence doesn't exist here

 

[UnknownOrange]

Although I am not saying JB was directing his players there by any means ... but he's no angel. Ignorance isn't a defense.

 

[RF2044]

System is way down the list? Dont tell Babers that...

It's way down the list of what is plaguing our basketball program.

 

[RF2044]

They are his responsibility.

Sure. And as part of that responsibility, Boeheim terminated an academic advisory resource for misconduct, and took proactive steps with several other of the incidents, up to and including self-reporting to the NCAA, and suspending a player who was a key performer on a #1 seeded team the day before the NCAA tournament.

Which is why the severity of the penalties is entirely out of whack with the infractions. In several cases, we self-imposed penalties, or took proactive measures to make changes / implement controls that addressed the issues. That's what a CEO does. A CEO shouldn't be held responsible that misconduct happens underneath them, because you can't control everything. But they can and should be held ACCOUNTABLE if due diligence isn't taken to remediate issues / problems. In most of the cases involved with our infractions, either JB, the basketball program, or the AD took decisive action. The remaining issues [like the drug policy stuff, the Y, etc.] certainly didn't equate with the unprecedentedly harsh penalties we received, by any stretch.

 

[moqui]

Consider an Over/Under on total wins for the next 5 seasons. if I set it at 125, 25 wins per average per year including this year. would you bet the over or the under?

I'd take the over, easily. in fact, if I was actually taking bets on this, I'd probably set the line at 130 (and still take the over)

 

[Cusefan0307]

Consider an Over/Under on total wins for the next 5 seasons. if I set it at 125, 25 wins per average per year including this year. would you bet the over or the under?

I'd take the over, easily. in fact, if I was actually taking bets on this, I'd probably set the line at 130 (and still take the over)

You're much more confident than the average fan I think.

 

[moqui]

You're much more confident than the average fan I think.

that's because they are average

 

[Alsacs]

Consider an Over/Under on total wins for the next 5 seasons. if I set it at 125, 25 wins per average per year including this year. would you bet the over or the under?

I'd take the over, easily. in fact, if I was actually taking bets on this, I'd probably set the line at 130 (and still take the over)

130 is 26 wins per season.
We don't even have a PG beyond this year except Howard Washington.

No way no how am I taking over 130.

The ACC teams recruit a helluva lot better than Big East teams.

The talent from opponents is higher.

I would be happy with 115 wins over the next 5 years.

 

[Briancuse]

Consider an Over/Under on total wins for the next 5 seasons. if I set it at 125, 25 wins per average per year including this year. would you bet the over or the under?

I'd take the over, easily. in fact, if I was actually taking bets on this, I'd probably set the line at 130 (and still take the over)

Lets take it one year at a time, and I am all for Jb staying as long as he isn't embarrassing the program, what is our absolute ceiling for next year, wins wise?

 

[moqui]

I would be happy with 115 wins over the next 5 years.

no you wouldn't. you'd piss all over the board. thankfully it won't come anywhere near that

 

[Alsacs]

no you wouldn't. you'd piss all over the board. thankfully it won't come anywhere near that

Yeah that's what I do.

I would say something more but you don't deserve more. I call it the way I say sorry I don't pretend things are better than they are.

You probably think nothing happened behind the scenes with JB and Hop.
JB was a bigger problem than most say. Hop was completely undercut by JB.

I would be happy with 115 wins that is 23 per season and that is getting you in the NCAAT with how hard our schedule is now.

But yeah I complain when there is no reason to complain you got me.

 

[moqui]

Yeah that's what I do.

I would say something more but you don't deserve more. I call it the way I say sorry I don't pretend things are better than they are.

You probably think nothing happened behind the scenes with JB and Hop.
JB was a bigger problem than most say. Hop was completely undercut by JB.

I would be happy with 115 wins that is 23 per season and that is getting you in the NCAAT with how hard our schedule is now.

But yeah I complain when there is no reason to complain you got me.

hey, I think JB should have been fired. I am under no illusions about what he is as a person.
but he remains an actual genius as a basketball coach, and he has an impressive collection of talent to play with as he comes out from under sanctions.

23 wpy? you know as well as I do that JB has averaged 24 wins per year for his career; 29 wins per year in the 6 years prior to sanctions. I know you well enough to know you would point out 23 wpy as an unacceptable decline. maybe not now as I've called you on it.

 

[Alsacs]

hey, I think JB should have been fired. I am under no illusions about what he is as a person.
but he remains an actual genius as a basketball coach, and he has an impressive collection of talent to play with as he comes out from under sanctions.

23 wpy? you know as well as I do that JB has averaged 24 wins per year for his career; 29 wins per year in the 6 years prior to sanctions. I know you well enough to know you would point out 23 wpy as an unacceptable decline. maybe not now as I've called you on it.

We are in a tougher conference.
We don't have Seton Hall, Rutgers, USF, DePaul, Providence, St. John's.
We have BC and all the rest are competitive.
23-8 in the regular season is fine from where we have been.

 

[moqui]

We are in a tougher conference.
We don't have Seton Hall, Rutgers, USF, DePaul, Providence, St. John's.
We have BC and all the rest are competitive.
23-8 in the regular season is fine from where we have been.

you willfully ignore that SU went 14-4 in ACC play and 28-6 overall in the last season prior to the year sanctions came down and now the talent pipeline is flowing again. Bazely & Sidibe have All ACC potential. Brissett has above ACC average talent. Hughes has above ACC average athleticism. Buddy is an elite shooter with size. Kevin Stallings could win 25 games with that kind of roster.

 

[Sherman20]

It's fine to mention the sanctions. I get they have hurt us. I wish sanctions were hurting Louisville as bad as us. I didn't want this thread to get emotional, but this topic is difficult to discuss with the board.

Are people willing to be patient this year. Jury's out. We've had a few rough seasons for Syracuse standards and I sense a lot of fans are sick of it.

I mean, the mediocrity can't go on too much longer or more people will call for him to step down, but we're only talking about a few seasons here anyways (one with a Final Four appearance...and whose regular season record only ended up bubblicious because of JB's 9-game suspension).

But if we land Carey to join Bazeley along with all the young talent already on the roster, we should have a great 2018-19 season and all will be back to normal.

JB's a survivor, and I think he'll survive and go out on his own terms.

 

[Alsacs]

you willfully ignore that SU went 14-4 in ACC play and 28-6 overall in the last season prior to the year sanctions came down and now the talent pipeline is flowing again. Bazely & Sidibe have All ACC potential. Brissett has above ACC average talent. Hughes has above ACC average athleticism. Buddy is an elite shooter with size. Kevin Stallings could win 25 games with that kind of roster.

2014 is going to be 4 regular seasons ago.
I mean he had a stud 5 star PG and first team all conference SF.

We don't have that now.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I've been hearing we are two years away for like 3 years. We were supposed to win 25 games this year to. Getting Bazley doesn't guarantee you anything.

 

[kidorange]

Expectations are pretty low (at least for me) this year. If we don't show major improvement next year, with more recruits in the pipeline, it will be extremely difficult to support JB.

There's no excuse for any coach that plays in front of 30,000 people in the best basketball conference in the country not to have a top 25 team.

I don't buy the sanctions excuse. We fielded a team last year redshirted a top 50 recruit. The talent was here.

 

[moqui]

Lets take it one year at a time, and I am all for Jb staying as long as he isn't embarrassing the program, what is our absolute ceiling for next year, wins wise?

well, the absolute ceiling is always 41.
not having seen the full schedule, at the moment I think 9 conference and 10 OOC wins is the lower bound and 12/12 the upper bound of my expectations for the regular season.