How will he be remembered?

Nicknack

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How do you think Boeheim will be remembered once he finally steps down or is forced to step down?

I never would have thought it, but I believe his is tarnishing his legacy. I think we can all agree that he's accomplished so much and is a true hall of famer. I will always be appreciative of what he did at Syracuse and all of the great things he has done off the court. However, the way in which things are now going down and how he's acting, what he's saying, and how he's coaching, will make a lasting impact (and not a good one). I will never feel the same about Boeheim as I did for the first 31 years of being a Syracuse diehard. I finally reached my breaking point this year. I've had enough.

Consider for a moment Pasqualoni. How is he remembered? Now he didn't mean as much to Syracuse football as Boeheim means to basketball, but still... he's probably more remembered for sticking around too long than the bowl wins, BE championships, and other accolades. It's really too bad Boeheim can't see wha't happening and refuses to acknowledge that he is a big part of the problem.
 

Alsacs

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JB’s legacy is cemented.
Think Bobby Knight in Indiana, Dean Smith in North Carolina, John Wooden in LA.

I want change not because I don’t like JB but because his refusal to adapt.
He is emboldened in his ways and won’t do things different.
The guy is 76 and is the oldest HC in major college basketball. If he was going all-in at the job I wouldn’t question it but he isn’t hitting the recruiting trails like he used.

Find me a JB story like this.

 

MadNY3

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How do you think Boeheim will be remembered once he finally steps down or is forced to step down?

I never would have thought it, but I believe his is tarnishing his legacy. I think we can all agree that he's accomplished so much and is a true hall of famer. I will always be appreciative of what he did at Syracuse and all of the great things he has done off the court. However, the way in which things are now going down and how he's acting, what he's saying, and how he's coaching, will make a lasting impact (and not a good one). I will never feel the same about Boeheim as I did for the first 31 years of being a Syracuse diehard. I finally reached my breaking point this year. I've had enough.

Consider for a moment Pasqualoni. How is he remembered? Now he didn't mean as much to Syracuse football as Boeheim means to basketball, but still... he's probably more remembered for sticking around too long than the bowl wins, BE championships, and other accolades. It's really too bad Boeheim can't see wha't happening and refuses to acknowledge that he is a big part of the problem.

Boeheim will be remembered with epic positivity, period.

Pasqualoni is nowhere near the comparison. Roy Simmons Sr/Jr are the two to compare and I suppose Ben.
 

Zelda Zonk

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With all the media, social media, and various stimuli and experiences we now have, ’history’ means less and less. As like as he has his name on the Carrier Dome court and in-game commentators need to fill air space with references to him, the legacy will live on in some form. But, think about our ‘legacy’ in the Big East. It isn’t very significant now.

Time passes, things change, and the ‘kids’ have very little capacity for/interest in ‘what was.’ If we get someone good, and get some good recruits and reclaim some glory, a lot of his legacy will be lost to the ‘what if’ speculation... What if we had made a change sooner? What if he was overrated all along? If we don’t, and languish or suffer more, it’ll be the type of what if he compromised us for too like and we won’t recover. Unfortunately, the favorable scenario for JB is if we don’t get better for quite some time, to give the JB loyalists enough ammo for their arguments.

The argument will be different, depending on whether you’re an SU fan or not. One national championship in 40+ years isn’t enough to cement anything in a national sense, even if it makes him a lifetime hero for upstaters. JB is kinda like a collegiate Lenny Wilkins. A lot of wins over a long, long period, but perhaps not regarded as a “great.”
 

Zelda Zonk

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Boeheim will be remembered with epic positivity, period.

Pasqualoni is nowhere near the comparison. Roy Simmons Sr/Jr are the two to compare and I suppose Ben.
Simmons Jr had six national championships and had us as a preeminent national power for a long time. That was a legendary career.

[Jeez—I didn’t realize Desko had five. Wow.]
 

Arangeman

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Simmons Jr had six national championships and had us as a preeminent national power for a long time. That was a legendary career.

[Jeez—I didn’t realize Desko had five. Wow.]
And passed the program to his protege in fantastic shape.

What sucks and somehow still haunts me is how different the perception of JB is if we close out that game in ‘87. That puts him in the pantheon.
 

Zelda Zonk

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And passed the program to his protege in fantastic shape.

What sucks and somehow still haunts me is how different the perception of JB is if we close out that game in ‘87. That puts him in the pantheon.
I don't know. If we had won in 87, maybe that means we get a few different players. Maybe we have an additional NC. Or 2. Maybe we don’t get Carmelo because we already have a decent forward at that spot, so we don’t get 2003.

But, maybe it puts JB into his stubborn, arrogant, and entitled phase much earlier, and our decline begins sooner. What Ifs are entertaining, but aren’t really good for much else.
 

Zelda Zonk

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He will be remembered as a legend who was the face of Syracuse bball.
A “legend?” No. He‘ll be a huge talking point for broadcasters... for a few years. Then he will be mostly ‘symbolic.’ Like Adolph Rupp or Dean Smith. Or Lou Henson.
 

JustPherU

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Simmons Jr had six national championships and had us as a preeminent national power for a long time. That was a legendary career.

[Jeez—I didn’t realize Desko had five. Wow.]
How many teams even played lacrosse back then? Hard to compare winning a basketball championship against a sport that had 20 teams competing
 

Briancuse

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A “legend?” No. He‘ll be a huge talking point for broadcasters... for a few years. Then he will be mostly ‘symbolic.’ Like Adolph Rupp or Dean Smith. Or Lou Henson.
He's much better than Henson. The lack of a 2nd title will keep him out of the Dean Smith Bob Knight category. But he's been to.5 final fours never had a losing.season.
 

Dinkyspond

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He will be revered. People will forget and forgive the last downturn since 2015. It'll be like Bobby Bowden. Nobody mentions the ending.
 

dollarbill44

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I don't know. If we had won in 87, maybe that means we get a few different players. Maybe we have an additional NC. Or 2. Maybe we don’t get Carmelo because we already have a decent forward at that spot, so we don’t get 2003.

But, maybe it puts JB into his stubborn, arrogant, and entitled phase much earlier, and our decline begins sooner. What Ifs are entertaining, but aren’t really good for much else.
This is a crazy butterfly effect scenario you've put together. We were already recruiting at the top level in 1987. Winning that likely wouldn't have impacted the future in a meaningful way, especially since we went on probation a handful of years later.
 

dollarbill44

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A “legend?” No. He‘ll be a huge talking point for broadcasters... for a few years. Then he will be mostly ‘symbolic.’ Like Adolph Rupp or Dean Smith. Or Lou Henson.
Adolph Rupp and Dean Smith are freaking legends. I don't know what you're talking about. JB is, and will be, a legend in college basketball as long as his name is in the top 10 in all time wins.
 

cto

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As one of the legendary greatest coaches ever.
Bees nailed it in eight words. Period. Some other thoughts in this thread are like individual snow flakes. Noticed for a second as they fall ... and then swept into meaninglessness in the overall landscape.

(BTW, 95 percent of the sports fans in this country couldn't care less about lacrosse which was played at a high level at only a dozen or so schools until a few years ago. Zero comparison with basketball which has been a major college sport for 130 years).
 
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Zelda Zonk

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He's much better than Henson. The lack of a 2nd title will keep him out of the Dean Smith Bob Knight category. But he's been to.5 final fours never had a losing.season.
I’m talking about National Perception, and how the ‘legend’ fades pretty quickly.
Talking about single championship basketball coaches, there‘s Gary Williams and Steve Fisher. In fewer years than JB. Neither are ‘legendary.’

As for the Bowden comp:
”During his time at Florida State, Bowden led FSU to an Associated Press and Coaches Poll National Title in 1993 and a BCS National Championship in 1999, as well as twelve Atlantic Coast Conferencechampionships once FSU joined the conference in 1991. Bowden's Seminoles finished as an AP top-5 team for 14 consecutive seasons, setting a record that doubled the closest program.”

JB isn’t in that echelon.

JB’s legacy is mostly longevity-related, which is why I cited Lenny Wilkins.

The perceptions are different, depending on who you ask. For SU fans/upstaters/locals, he’s a legend. For the rest of the world, not so much. It also depends on personal criteria. Similar to the discussion about Who is “elite.” How many people are on your “elite” list? If your definition is lax, maybe your list is deep. If it’s tight and stringent, the list is shorter. Then, add in your personal ‘identity’ issues, and if you need to feel like you’re somehow connected to something “legendary.” The old “I was there” thing...
 

dollarbill44

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I’m talking about National Perception, and how the ‘legend’ fades pretty quickly.
Talking about single championship basketball coaches, there‘s Gary Williams and Steve Fisher. In fewer years than JB. Neither are ‘legendary.’

As for the Bowden comp:
”During his time at Florida State, Bowden led FSU to an Associated Press and Coaches Poll National Title in 1993 and a BCS National Championship in 1999, as well as twelve Atlantic Coast Conferencechampionships once FSU joined the conference in 1991. Bowden's Seminoles finished as an AP top-5 team for 14 consecutive seasons, setting a record that doubled the closest program.”

JB isn’t in that echelon.

JB’s legacy is mostly longevity-related, which is why I cited Lenny Wilkins.

The perceptions are different, depending on who you ask. For SU fans/upstaters/locals, he’s a legend. For the rest of the world, not so much. It also depends on personal criteria. Similar to the discussion about Who is “elite.” How many people are on your “elite” list? If your definition is lax, maybe your list is deep. If it’s tight and stringent, the list is shorter. Then, add in your personal ‘identity’ issues, and if you need to feel like you’re somehow connected to something “legendary.” The old “I was there” thing...
smoke.gif
 

Zelda Zonk

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Adolph Rupp and Dean Smith are freaking legends. I don't know what you're talking about. JB is, and will be, a legend in college basketball as long as his name is in the top 10 in all time wins.
Right. You don’t know what I’m talking about. As I said, “symbolic.” And I didn’t say Smith and Rupp aren’t “legendary.” Two separate concepts.

How many championships do Smith and Rupp and Wooden and K and Williams and Knight have.

And as for the top 10 in wins, again... what is the perception of Lenny Wilkins?
 

Zelda Zonk

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Bees nailed it in eight words. Period. Some other thoughts in this thread are like individual snow flakes. Noticed for a second as they fall ... and then swept into meaninglessness in the overall landscape.

(BTW, 95 percent of the sports fans in this country couldn't care less about lacrosse which was played at a high level at only a dozen or so schools until a few years ago. Zero comparison with basketball which has been a major college sport for 130 years).
Cogent ‘argument.‘ Insults over substance. And personal defensiveness over everything.
 

dasher

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Simmons Jr had six national championships and had us as a preeminent national power for a long time. That was a legendary career.

[Jeez—I didn’t realize Desko had five. Wow.]
How many schools were playing Lax during his coaching period? JB will be remembered as a historic coach. Not a Lenny Wilkins
 

Briancuse

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I’m talking about National Perception, and how the ‘legend’ fades pretty quickly.
Talking about single championship basketball coaches, there‘s Gary Williams and Steve Fisher. In fewer years than JB. Neither are ‘legendary.’

As for the Bowden comp:
”During his time at Florida State, Bowden led FSU to an Associated Press and Coaches Poll National Title in 1993 and a BCS National Championship in 1999, as well as twelve Atlantic Coast Conferencechampionships once FSU joined the conference in 1991. Bowden's Seminoles finished as an AP top-5 team for 14 consecutive seasons, setting a record that doubled the closest program.”

JB isn’t in that echelon.

JB’s legacy is mostly longevity-related, which is why I cited Lenny Wilkins.

The perceptions are different, depending on who you ask. For SU fans/upstaters/locals, he’s a legend. For the rest of the world, not so much. It also depends on personal criteria. Similar to the discussion about Who is “elite.” How many people are on your “elite” list? If your definition is lax, maybe your list is deep. If it’s tight and stringent, the list is shorter. Then, add in your personal ‘identity’ issues, and if you need to feel like you’re somehow connected to something “legendary.” The old “I was there” thing...
Jb is better than Fisher and Williams. Fisher couldn't win a title with the Fab 5. Williams only went to two Final fours and had some bad years. I hate to say it but if dc knocks down those fts jbs looked at as an all time great. He'd have as many titles as knight and Smith.
 

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