How will he be remembered?

Zelda Zonk

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How many schools were playing Lax during his coaching period? JB will be remembered as a historic coach. Not a Lenny Wilkins
So, by that logic, it’s impossible to achieve ‘legendary’ status as a lacrosse coach.
By extension of that logic, we should minimize Bowden because he only had to win 12 games a year.

Any discussion of status of achievement relies on a recognition of the context of that achievement.

And you ignored the question of Who is doing the remembering.
 

Arangeman

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Bees nailed it in eight words. Period. Some other thoughts in this thread are like individual snow flakes. Noticed for a second as they fall ... and then swept into meaninglessness in the overall landscape.

(BTW, 95 percent of the sports fans in this country couldn't care less about lacrosse which was played at a high level at only a dozen or so schools until a few years ago. Zero comparison with basketball which has been a major college sport for 130 years).
There is comparison in how Syracuse University sports fans view their coaches historically. 95% of sports fans may not care about lacrosse but we do. Hence the statues.

JB will be remembered as one of the best to do it. My only thought is that one more title puts him in the convo of Knight, Wooden, K, Smith etc.
 

Briancuse

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Adolph Rupp and Dean Smith are freaking legends. I don't know what you're talking about. JB is, and will be, a legend in college basketball as long as his name is in the top 10 in all time wins.
Dean Smith is a legend and this is not a knock on him but he only has two titles one of those was with the greatest bball player to ever live.
 

samspann1

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JMO, but it's kind of weird to me that some people seem to be more concerned with how JB is perceived than the state of the program.

Personally, I'm an SU fan, not a JB fan [will Townie come running from the locker room down the ramp having read this?]
 

Zelda Zonk

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Dean Smith is a legend and this is not a knock on him but he only has two titles one of those was with the greatest bball player to ever live.
But do you see how you’ve factored in your own personal criteria/bias? Do you think you’d feel different if you were from Raleigh?

[JB’s came with one of the greatest bball players to ever live.]
 

rrlbees

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JMO, but it's kind of weird to me that some people seem to be more concerned with how JB is perceived than the state of the program.

Personally, I'm an SU fan, not a JB fan [will Townie come running from the locker room down the ramp having read this?]

the OP has nothing to do with the state of the program right now. And where do you get the “more concerned” from? Nobody has said that or anything close to it.
 

samspann1

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Dean Smith is a legend and this is not a knock on him but he only has two titles one of those was with the greatest bball player to ever live.
While that may be true, Smith's legacy extended beyond basketball.

 

cto

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There is comparison in how Syracuse University sports fans view their coaches historically. 95% of sports fans may not care about lacrosse but we do. Hence the statues.

JB will be remembered as one of the best to do it. My only thought is that one more title puts him in the convo of Knight, Wooden, K, Smith etc.
I thought we were talking about the nation here, not a medium-sized school in central NY. Ask a sports fan in Kansas or Kentucky or Texas to identify Roy Simmons; they will give you a blank look. Then ask them about Jim Boeheim... they will immediately cite him as one of the best basketball coaches in history. When you ask how someone will be remembered, the world is not confined to Syracuse.
 
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dasher

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So, by that logic, it’s impossible to achieve ‘legendary’ status as a lacrosse coach.
By extension of that logic, we should minimize Bowden because he only had to win 12 games a year.

Any discussion of status of achievement relies on a recognition of the context of that achievement.

And you ignored the question of Who is doing the remembering.
I think JB will be remembered for coaching the team with the best record of any school in a historic 40 year run in the Big East. A coach who took over a much smaller program in the ecac and made the school a national power. 3 title game appearances and over a 1000 wins. He will be remembered as one of the greatest college basketball coaches of all time. A coach that had the floor of his schools court named after him. A coach that has his plaque in the Hall of Fame.
 

samspann1

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the OP has nothing to do with the state of the program right now. And where do you get the “more concerned” from? Nobody has said that or anything close to it.
Bet you that if I posted about the state of the program, some of the people who so quickly chimed in here wouldn't say a word in that thread.
 

Day2

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How do you think Boeheim will be remembered once he finally steps down or is forced to step down?

I never would have thought it, but I believe his is tarnishing his legacy. I think we can all agree that he's accomplished so much and is a true hall of famer. I will always be appreciative of what he did at Syracuse and all of the great things he has done off the court. However, the way in which things are now going down and how he's acting, what he's saying, and how he's coaching, will make a lasting impact (and not a good one). I will never feel the same about Boeheim as I did for the first 31 years of being a Syracuse diehard. I finally reached my breaking point this year. I've had enough.

Consider for a moment Pasqualoni. How is he remembered? Now he didn't mean as much to Syracuse football as Boeheim means to basketball, but still... he's probably more remembered for sticking around too long than the bowl wins, BE championships, and other accolades. It's really too bad Boeheim can't see wha't happening and refuses to acknowledge that he is a big part of the problem.
FFS.
 

dasher

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While that may be true, Smith's legacy extended beyond basketball.

In fairness, the people that have been helped by JB's charity probably will remember him for things other than basketball as well.
 

Arangeman

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I thought we were talking about the nation here, not a medium-sized school in central NY. Ask a sports fan in Kansas or Kentucky or Texas to identify Roy Simmons.
i think it’s pretty obvious that anything being framed with SU Lax is referring to Syracuse University sports fan perception.

The OP talked about how Coach P is remembered. I don’t think he meant in Kentucky or Texas.
 

samspann1

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In fairness, the people that have been helped by JB's charity probably will remember him for things other than basketball as well.
I'm sure of that, yes.

Smith took what was probably a very unpopular stand as a coach at a Southern school on a very sensitive issue. JMO, but it's an apples/oranges comparison
 

Day2

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Right. You don’t know what I’m talking about. As I said, “symbolic.” And I didn’t say Smith and Rupp aren’t “legendary.” Two separate concepts.

How many championships do Smith and Rupp and Wooden and K and Williams and Knight have.

And as for the top 10 in wins, again... what is the perception of Lenny Wilkins?
I’m not sure if you know even know what you’re talking about.
 

samspann1

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Weird take. I'm capable of having an opinion on both. He's one of the all time greatest college basketball coaches, but it's time.
Some people can separate their opinions on the two issues. Some can't.

Not sure why that's so "weird" or hard to understand.
 

dasher

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I'm sure of that, yes.

Smith took what was probably a very unpopular stand as a coach at a Southern school on a very sensitive issue. JMO, but it's an apples/oranges comparison
no question it took a lot of courage for smith to act in the manner he did. Even in the north it would have taken courage. But i sure wouldn't discount what helping people in need does for those people. Both show character.
 

Briancuse

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But do you see how you’ve factored in your own personal criteria/bias? Do you think you’d feel different if you were from Raleigh?

[JB’s came with one of the greatest bball players to ever live.]
I don't have a bias against Dean Smith.
 

dasher

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Some people can separate their opinions on the two issues. Some can't.

Not sure why that's so "weird" or hard to understand.
I agree with MS. Most people in this thread, and that is who you were referring to, see Jb as a having been great for us for a long time. That time has past. Having talked offline with so many on this very thread, I think it is at least clear to me, people see both sides of this. great coach who should retire. Probably should have retired after the 2016 FF
 

dasher

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But do you see how you’ve factored in your own personal criteria/bias? Do you think you’d feel different if you were from Raleigh?

[JB’s came with one of the greatest bball players to ever live.]
Dean Smith's came with two blunders by opposing players that had nothing to do with his coaching. Oh, and one of the two came with Michael Jordan. And North Carolina was a power before Dean Smith. We sure weren't before JB
 

cto

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I'm sure of that, yes.

Smith took what was probably a very unpopular stand as a coach at a Southern school on a very sensitive issue. JMO, but it's an apples/oranges comparison
And JB had an African-American roommate in 1963. Do you know how incredibly rare that was on a college campus then? I do. I was at SU at the time.
 

samspann1

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I agree with MS. Most people in this thread, and that is who you were referring to, see Jb as a having been great for us for a long time. That time has past. Having talked offline with so many on this very thread, I think it is at least clear to me, people see both sides of this. great coach who should retire. Probably should have retired after the 2016 FF
I appreciate JB for all that he's done for the program, and his loyalty to SU.

And I also agree that it's well past time for him to step down - he's putting Wildhack is an unenviable position.

I find his behavior and public comments this year to be extremely strange, and personally, off-putting. I also don't understand his uneven treatment of local vs. national media.
 

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