I’d keeping playing both qb’s. Still not very clear, IMO. What sucks is that cant run the same offense

[phil77]

That’s Tommy.

What has Tommy won in all the games he has played that lead you to believe he is the correct QB for this system? What wins does Tommy have as a starter that tells me if we want to win we have to start this guy?

 

[RF2044]

Just to make my final comment on this. I said before the game Saturday, the thought of their being a competition was a charade by Dino. Tommy will be your starter Saturday, and every game while he is here. Dino brought Tommy in
as his chosen one, and there is no way he is getting benched for someone else.
Dino is not going to admit he made a mistake, even if it costs him his job. So hopefully a light goes on for Tommy, because he is your QB this year. I don't expect Shrader to stay the whole year, his best bet is to move on. There was never going to be a realistic oportunity to start here.

Tommy could certainly remain the starter the entire year, if Shrader doesn't step up and separate himself.

But I think the "chosen one" stuff is overblown. That may have been the original case, but TD hasn't lived up to the hype from the Elite 11 nor improved much over the course of his career in terms of his playmaking.

It is what it is.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What has Tommy won in all the games he has played that lead you to believe he is the correct QB for this system? What wins does Tommy have as a starter that tells me if we want to win we have to start this guy?

These are fair questions, but if this is the standard, what could Shrader have possibly have done at this point to earn it?

 

[TheCusian]

What has Tommy won in all the games he has played that lead you to believe he is the correct QB for this system? What wins does Tommy have as a starter that tells me if we want to win we have to start this guy?

1. This is about GS vs TD. Not is "TD the correct QB for this system"
2. Wins is a team stat. GS's wins were with a different team, with SEC talent (notable a serviceable OL). TD might have played well enough to win in more games, but other elements of the team didn't. It's obviously difficult to parse this out game by game. But I don't believe in judging QBs by win totals.

Now, I think it's close and if TD plays like he did in the 4th Q vs Rutgers, you have to play GS. You can make the case that he's played ok otherwise. - The case for TD is:

1. He can make all the throws, GS cannot
2. He doesn't throw a lot of INT (the pick 6 vs Albany was on the WR, IMO)
3. He hasn't played with a RB like Tucker combined with an OL like we have now in his time here.
4. He's showed better pocket presence
5. He's made good decisions running the ball
6. Our OL is going to get better with Davis returning. I go with the guy who can move the ball throwing it well vs the runner with an ok short game
7. He does this:

 

[phil77]

These are fair questions, but if this is the standard, what could Shrader have possibly have done at this point to earn it?

Clearly something right? If Dino still won't name TD the starter and keeps playing GS? He has to have flashed something in practice or some place to have caught the coach's eye or they would have just named TD the starter and let GS sit and learn or transfer out.

 

[phil77]

1. This is about GS vs TD. Not is "TD the correct QB for this system"
2. Wins is a team stat. GS's wins were with a different team, with SEC talent (notable a serviceable OL). TD might have played well enough to win in more games, but other elements of the team didn't. It's obviously difficult to parse this out game by game. But I don't believe in judging QBs by win totals.

Now, I think it's close and if TD plays like he did in the 4th Q vs Rutgers, you have to play GS. You can make the case that he's played ok otherwise. - The case for TD is:

1. He can make all the throws, GS cannot
2. He doesn't throw a lot of INT (the pick 6 vs Albany was on the WR, IMO)
3. He hasn't played with a RB like Tucker combined with an OL like we have now in his time here.
4. He's showed better pocket presence
5. He's made good decisions running the ball
6. Our OL is going to get better with Davis returning. I go with the guy who can move the ball throwing it well vs the runner with an ok short game
7. He does this:

1. He can't make all the throws because he can't see all the throws. Does he have the arm to make all the throws yes does he have the awareness to make all the throws no.
2. I think TD plays it too safe to protect from throwing INTs which could hurt the team in the long run because he isn't taking chances in the passing game he should be taking?
3. Fair point but in 3 games it hasn't looked good and looked like the same TD from years past.
4. I agree he has looked more confident in the pocket but it hasn't translated to a more diverse passing game. He still locks onto 1 WR and doesn't scan the field.
5. Goes with #4
6. The problem is he doesn't throw it enough to win the ACC without having a better awareness of what is happening all over the field. He doesn't read the defense and scans the field. He locks onto #1 and that is it. Will never beat ACC teams especially with ACC talent playing like that.
7. There are also times when he doesn't hit those like OHIO then what is his back up to that? Can he hit 8 passes in a row of the 10 yard range to different WRs to move the ball against good teams? He has proven he can't drive the ball down the field against ACC teams on regular basis. So we are just holding our breath waiting and hoping he hits 3 or 4 of those so we can beat a team. That is not a path to success in the ACC which has been proven over the course of TDs career.

 

[Chip]

I felt he was throwing the deeper guy too.. but that doesnt mean he didnt see Pena.. Maybe Pena ran the wrong route?

Weird that we would have two guys in the same line to the QB and not far apart in their routes.

Just watched it again, Pena was much more open than Gadsden. If Pena wasn't in the picture, it's possible it would have been a completion. But more likely broken up by the corner who ended up picking it off. Might have even picked it off anyway.

 

[TheCusian]

1. He can't make all the throws because he can't see all the throws. Does he have the arm to make all the throws yes does he have the awareness to make all the throws no.
2. I think TD plays it too safe to protect from throwing INTs which could hurt the team in the long run because he isn't taking chances in the passing game he should be taking?
3. Fair point but in 3 games it hasn't looked good and looked like the same TD from years past.
4. I agree he has looked more confident in the pocket but it hasn't translated to a more diverse passing game. He still locks onto 1 WR and doesn't scan the field.
5. Goes with #4
6. The problem is he doesn't throw it enough to win the ACC without having a better awareness of what is happening all over the field. He doesn't read the defense and scans the field. He locks onto #1 and that is it. Will never beat ACC teams especially with ACC talent playing like that.
7. There are also times when he doesn't hit those like OHIO then what is his back up to that? Can he hit 8 passes in a row of the 10 yard range to different WRs to move the ball against good teams? He has proven he can't drive the ball down the field against ACC teams on regular basis. So we are just holding our breath waiting and hoping he hits 3 or 4 of those so we can beat a team. That is not a path to success in the ACC which has been proven over the course of TDs career.

These are all true of a QB who played behind one of the worst OLs in the P5. I believe “can’t see” could be replaced with “improving at seeing” … so many fans decided what kind of QB he was watching him when he was young and behind a bad line. Give him a minute.

Trust me. Dino will ride TD until he starts panicking back there or is injured.

 

[SuFTW]

Hot take - he did win the job outright but to get Shrader Dino had to make some promises he's now beholden to.

I have no inside info.

In a similar vein, promises were probably also made to Tommy. He likely promised Shrader a fair shot and he has gotten one.

 

[GoSU96]

Shrader is going to have an important part to play this year. Minimum close red zone packages.

 

[Chip]

Shrader is going to have an important part to play this year. Minimum close red zone packages.

And beyond. He's looked a little rough at times, but he isn't a grad transfer. He's just a guy pressing because he wants to play.

 

[Scooch]

And beyond. He's looked a little rough at times, but he isn't a grad transfer. He's just a guy pressing because he wants to play.

This is an important point we all seem to forget. Shrader played as a true frosh, somewhat unexpectedly, right? Then basically didn't play QB last year? So he's in year 2 of his collegiate QB development (in a new system, no less). DeVito is in year 5. That does matter when evaluating what and how these guys are doing.

 

[orangeinohio]

1. This is about GS vs TD. Not is "TD the correct QB for this system"
2. Wins is a team stat. GS's wins were with a different team, with SEC talent (notable a serviceable OL). TD might have played well enough to win in more games, but other elements of the team didn't. It's obviously difficult to parse this out game by game. But I don't believe in judging QBs by win totals.

Now, I think it's close and if TD plays like he did in the 4th Q vs Rutgers, you have to play GS. You can make the case that he's played ok otherwise. - The case for TD is:

1. He can make all the throws, GS cannot
2. He doesn't throw a lot of INT (the pick 6 vs Albany was on the WR, IMO)
3. He hasn't played with a RB like Tucker combined with an OL like we have now in his time here.
4. He's showed better pocket presence
5. He's made good decisions running the ball
6. Our OL is going to get better with Davis returning. I go with the guy who can move the ball throwing it well vs the runner with an ok short game
7. He does this:

Related to #5 -
I'd prefer if he was better at protecting himself when he runs. There seem to be times that TD throws his body a little recklessly into opposing players. He needs to protect himself a little better.

 

[TheCusian]

This is an important point we all seem to forget. Shrader played as a true frosh, somewhat unexpectedly, right? Then basically didn't play QB last year? So he's in year 2 of his collegiate QB development (in a new system, no less). DeVito is in year 5. That does matter when evaluating what and how these guys are doing.

Very fair.

I've been harsh on him for his throwing motion - but even that can get better. It's clear he can make quick decisions and gets the ball where it needs to go on short throws. I'd be he played in that kind offense in HS. He can run, obviously.

Long throws and knowing when to run and when to pass will be the next steps. Maybe fixing his motion - but that's the stuff that is harder to correct I think

 

[RMH44]

Very fair.

I've been harsh on him for his throwing motion - but even that can get better. It's clear he can make quick decisions and gets the ball where it needs to go on short throws. I'd be he played in that kind offense in HS. He can run, obviously.

Long throws and knowing when to run and when to pass will be the next steps. Maybe fixing his motion - but that's the stuff that is harder to correct I think

Nowhere near as hard as "fixing" a QB's feel (or lack thereof) in the pocket. Some players simply have that "it", the instinctual feel and pocket presence.

 

[TheCusian]

Nowhere near as hard as "fixing" a QB's feel (or lack thereof) in the pocket. Some players simply have that "it", the instinctual feel and pocket presence.

TD has looked better this year. I agree that there’s a natural feel that some have more of. But some is just trusting your protection. We gave him 2 years worth of reasons to not trust the pocket.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

This is not a comment on which guy should be starting because Dino doesn’t care what I/we think. He will choose a guy and, for better or worse, we will go along for the ride.

Two quick observations though: despite some fans claiming that Shrader is less accurate, he is completing a very respectable 72.7% of his passes. Despite Tommy being thought of by most as not able to run, he is the #2 rusher on the team to date this season. Each guy brings things to the table although neither is the complete package.

If Dino still can’t make up his mind and if 1) the upper classman/returning multi year starter hasn’t claimed the position and if 2) the guy who was brought in to try and claim the position hasn’t done so, I expect more of the 2-QB system. Truthfully, as long as the more effective guy against a given opponent gets more than 50% of the snaps then that might be our best option.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

This is not a comment on which guy should be starting because Dino doesn’t care what I/we think. He will choose a guy and, for better or worse, we will go along for the ride.

Two quick observations though: despite some fans claiming that Shrader is less accurate, he is completing a very respectable 72.7% of his passes. Despite Tommy being thought of by most as not able to run, he is the #2 rusher on the team to date this season. Each guy brings things to the table although neither is the complete package.

If Dino still can’t make up his mind and if 1) the upper classma/returning milti year starter hasn’t claimed the position and if 2) the guy who was brought in to try and claim the position hasn’t done so, I expect more of the 2-QB system. Truthfully, as long as the more effective guy against a given opponent gets more than 50% of the snaps then that might be our best option.

Yeah if neither has separated themselves I think you keep playing them both. I think Tommy will be the starter and Shrader will continue to play in a limited capacity as well at least for now. 75/25 I think is what we will see Friday night. If it's a QB competition and the two are both showing good and bad things it's tough to really make a clear choice. I would like to see what the running game looks like with Rhino and Shrader at QB too.

I have zero dog in the fight just want production and 6 wins whatever gets us there, good, bad ugly don't care. Both are going to play and Tommy staying 100% healthy for 9 more games isn't 3/5 chalk bet either

 

[kcsu]

The point is neither one of these guys are playing great. I think we see both all year

 

[Chip]

This is not a comment on which guy should be starting because Dino doesn’t care what I/we think. He will choose a guy and, for better or worse, we will go along for the ride.

Two quick observations though: despite some fans claiming that Shrader is less accurate, he is completing a very respectable 72.7% of his passes. Despite Tommy being thought of by most as not able to run, he is the #2 rusher on the team to date this season. Each guy brings things to the table although neither is the complete package.

If Dino still can’t make up his mind and if 1) the upper classman/returning multi year starter hasn’t claimed the position and if 2) the guy who was brought in to try and claim the position hasn’t done so, I expect more of the 2-QB system. Truthfully, as long as the more effective guy against a given opponent gets more than 50% of the snaps then that might be our best option.

Your point about the rushing is why I'd start with Tommy and play the offense we're going to play. I don't think it has to be different with the "running" QB. Tommy actually looks as fast, if not faster. He's just not as accustomed to it, so it doesn't always look fluid. He still needs to take a hit better, know when to slide a bit quicker. Seems to be improving though.

In the past we avoided this because if Tommy got hurt, plan B was really plan Z. Now there's a plan B, maybe even a plan C, so let him run RPO, designed QB draws, take off if there's trouble and try to get to the edge. Who knows, maybe it even makes a team think twice about pinning their ears back and going after him.

 

[DuxburyO]

Your point about the rushing is why I'd start with Tommy and play the offense we're going to play. I don't think it has to be different with the "running" QB. Tommy actually looks as fast, if not faster. He's just not as accustomed to it, so it doesn't always look fluid. He still needs to take a hit better, know when to slide a bit quicker. Seems to be improving though.

In the past we avoided this because if Tommy got hurt, plan B was really plan Z. Now there's a plan B, maybe even a plan C, so let him run RPO, designed QB draws, take off if there's trouble and try to get to the edge. Who knows, maybe it even makes a team think twice about pinning their ears back and going after him.

The slide he tried against Albany was scary. Very glad and lucky that he was ok that time.

 

[AngryOtto]

These are all true of a QB who played behind one of the worst OLs in the P5. I believe “can’t see” could be replaced with “improving at seeing” … so many fans decided what kind of QB he was watching him when he was young and behind a bad line. Give him a minute.

Trust me. Dino will ride TD until he starts panicking back there or is injured.

The locking in on one receiver is not just fans on the board. In the games the years the commentators have expressed that he is locking in on one target.
I do not see how that now gets fixed at this point of the season going forward.

 

[kcsu]

Just watched the game again. Shrader played well and better the more he played. He makes very solid quick decisions and throws a good 0-30 yard ball which is very catchable. His vision and pocket awareness also looks good.
I fully expect Tommy to start as he deserves to but i like Shrader and feel as if he is going to lead us to some nice wins either this year or next. Really hope he sticks with us. Kids a gamer.

 

[kcsu]

Next points on the rewatch. Vet struggles against strong DL.
25 needs to play. Again kid is a gamer just has it. Roscoe is an animal. Does he have another year?
Mang is going to be something kids only a frosh and plays like a seasoned vet. I like him a ton.
Young DL guys look very good.

 

[llandz]

So yesterday I had the opportunity to talk with one of our WRs from the past 10-15 years. Someone who knows football well. I am not going to say who it was, but suffice to say they were a good player. Said player is not impressed with Tommy. That was all I needed to hear as the relationship with a QB and a WR is key. So, I vote for Schrader now.