I’d keeping playing both qb’s. Still not very clear, IMO. What sucks is that cant run the same offense

[Cuseregular]

Eh...

I'm not buying it. These evaluations are more of a crap shoot than that.

But in any event, TD vs GS, they're getting evaluated on different things and it is kind of ridiculous.

I mean we have some posters equating having a weaker arm with throwing a more "catchable" ball.

In the particular instance you’re referring to it’s called having “touch“ on the ball. Knowing when to throw more of a rocket versus a more catchable bowl. We’ve been talking about this with DeVito for four years now.

 

[storange]

My point is if the starter isn't getting it done and you need to make a change, would you rather be bringing in a running QB or a passing QB? Tommy stunk it up the last 5 drives of the game vs Rutgers. But Dino had no choice but to stick it out. You can't bring in Shrader to try to pass your way back into a game. The only time Shrader makes sense as a relief pitcher is if it is a close game and you need a spark. If you need 2 scores then you are stuck with Tommy the whole way. If Shrader starts then Tommy makes sense to get back into a game.

I get it, my point is from actual game history TD hasn’t shown the grit when things start going South. If we’re down 10 and it’s early in the 3rd Q you don’t have to start throwing every play. We have not seen GS in that scenario yet.

 

[baggerbob]

Disagree. A D1 WR is supposed to catch that pass. Its not like it was a 5 yd burner. It went right through his hands and it HAD to be hard or the DB would have jumped the route. WR had to make a big boy play and he didn't. Not on TD.

In the particular instance you’re referring to it’s called having “touch“ on the ball. Knowing when to throw more of a rocket versus a more catchable bowl. We’ve been talking about this with DeVito for four years now.

But we have all these people always blaming the receivers for all the drops. One of the best QB in my lifetime Roger Staubach, could run and make all the throws, and had touch on the short throws.

 

[storange]

But we have all these people always blaming the receivers for all the drops. One of the best QB in my lifetime Roger Staubach, could run and make all the throws, and had touch on the short throws.

Yea , YA Tittle as well !!!!

 

[OttoinGrotto]

In the particular instance you’re referring to it’s called having “touch“ on the ball. Knowing when to throw more of a rocket versus a more catchable bowl. We’ve been talking about this with DeVito for four years now.

Yeah, um... Shrader throwing ducks isn't "touch."

 

[MikeSU02]

I completely get the logic of all of this.

Thing is, Dino made his bed here. If what you described is all correct, well, Dino needed to have "the talk" with DeVito so we could start fresh instead of getting to this point.

I think, and to be clear - this is only my opinion and nothing more, there has been a lot going on behind the scenes with Tommy.

I’m not saying it’s Tommy himself.

Now, Dino is not Nick Saban and has left a lot to be desired on his end for how he manages this program.

But I don’t think this was ever as easy as having “a talk” with Tommy.

ED came out and said Amie was the guy, not Tommy, to be next (in so many words). Dino brought in a transfer that was clearly at least supposed to compete for the job. There have been multiple announcing crews this year call out Tommy’s locking in on receivers.

If I had money to wager, I would guess that Tommy’s people at least put out feelers to see where he could go if he wanted to pull the rip cord and didn’t like the answers he got.

Point being, Dino, for whatever reason - lack of ability to run a program or promises made vs promises kept or just indecisiveness, I don’t believe, could have just had that talk and that be it.

 

[AngryOtto]

The thing I really don’t understand is when posters say TD gives us the best chance to win. This is his third year and we have barely won. He only had four games last year but he was not good. I know every game he will usually connect on one deep pass for a TD but we will end up loosing the game because he will not be able to move the ball on sustained drives.
It is true GS had issues also yesterday. He under threw a couple passes and missed a throw over the middle that resulted in a pick. He did have a nice short to mid range game. People feel with out the deep pass teams will stack the line and play man which will make him ineffective. However I feel that with his ability to roll out and the threat to run he will be able to hit short and mid range passes and move the ball.
In the end maybe GS is also not the answer and it’s one of or other qbs.
It’s just after three years I do not feel TD will do what is necessary in games to allow us to win.
Over the next four games one side of this debate will be correct and the other eating crow. If that happens at least it means we are winning, otherwise we were all wrong and it’s another losing season.

 

[Cuseregular]

Yeah, um... Shrader throwing ducks isn't "touch."

“In this particular incidence”, Pena bro we’re referring to. And FWiW a great receiver still catches it

 

[SUskibum]

Probably not.

But I'd feel a lot more confident in DeVito getting us to 28 if his rhythm isn't disrupted by putting him on the bench for the 2nd quarter so we can see what we have with Shrader.

Not to mention we would be talking about how all Tommy had was 2 lucky bombs and then Tuck did the rest.

WIth no acknowlegement that the mere threat of those bombs gives Tuck 1-2 less hats in the box

 

[OttoinGrotto]

“In this particular incidence”, Pena bro we’re referring to. And FWiW a great receiver still catches it

I humbly submit that it doesn't require a great receiver to catch that pass.

 

[SUskibum]

In the particular instance you’re referring to it’s called having “touch“ on the ball. Knowing when to throw more of a rocket versus a more catchable bowl. We’ve been talking about this with DeVito for four years now.

R Nassib had the same criticisms for 3 years then when his OL got better and his WR stepped up, he magically got better

 

[HRE Otto IV]

R Nassib had the same criticisms for 3 years then when his OL got better and his WR stepped up, he magically got better

Nassib never had touch even as a SR. Some people here were pro Nassib early. Others came to the party late. The late arrivers pointed to his stats, which IMO were held back by our system. When we opened things up it allowed Nassib to flourish. Tommy's stats are fine and the system ain't changing, so it isn't really a comparison.

Tommy's biggest criticism is taking too many sacks (which didn't happen with Nassib), locking in on his primary WR (again didn't happen with Nassib), not using the middle of the field (not with Nassib). He hasn't been the same since Dungey's NC State game. We have won only ONE game against P5 teams where Tommy had a good game. Even in all those losses he only had a good game twice. So in his last 14 games against P5s he has had 3 good games. As a Soph Nassib had big moments at USF and vs K State. As a JR he had big movements vs Wake and West Virginia. Tommy's only big moment was in relief vs UNC in 2018. He has nothing to show since then.

 

[SouthernCuse]

FWIW, I believe GS interception was on the receiver Mang. Not to dump on him either, as he is still an inexperienced receiver doing well. But from behind you could see that GS throw a beautiful post route ball to where he thought Max was going to break to. Max started his break, but instead of continuing on the post route, sort of took off upfield and didn't really look for the ball.

I don't think we went back to the TE after that, hope Benson is back soon.

 

[suorange08]

I mean, he hit Pena in stride, right on his hands.

We're only saying it was too high and hard because Pena failed to catch it.

That play is on Pena, not DeVito.

I agree that Pena needs to make the catch though it was a rocket above his head. That was not a good throw and he needs to dial back a bit on those short throws. My guess is this is what happens in practice and why we don't call those plays a lot anymore.

With Shrader you saw much more of it, and is what the bread-and-butter of this offense is. Quick hits outside that get first downs, extend the defense, and allow us to play fast.

My issue with Shrader yesterday was a lot of the quick hit passes were really slow looking lobs that may get picked against ACC defenses.

 

[Cuseregular]

I humbly submit that it doesn't require a great receiver to catch that pass.

So you’re saying that Pena sucks, not nice!

 

[GoSU96]

I humbly submit that it doesn't require a great receiver to catch that pass.

Somebody gets it

 

[SoBristol]

What about the bad interception for a touchdown by Tommy, threw the ball too high and hard.

That is what makes their stats fairly even. Shrader threw a weak ball down the middle trying to connect with the TE; TD threw that hard ball to Pena -- might have been caught by a different receiver but the QB needs to adjust to who he is throwing to. The two interceptions aren't apples to apples, of course --Shrader's did not lead to 6 points the other way.

Similarly on running. TD will get you yards on some occasions but he isn't a tough runner who you would expect to convert on 3rd and short, or provide a counter to the RB. Different styles.

And I come back to the injury risk, which we have seen every year since Nassib. It will good if we have 2 quarterbacks who have regularly seen action. I am not convinced by those who feel Dino needs to pick one and ride him for the entire game.

 

[Chris02M]

he kinda has boxed himself in to pick one from his comments this week, though i guarantee if he has picked one its not getting announced before gametime

 

[OttoinGrotto]

So you’re saying that Pena sucks, not nice!

I mean... Pena has had a rough couple of games.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That is what makes their stats fairly even. Shrader threw a weak ball down the middle trying to connect with the TE; TD threw that hard ball to Pena -- might have been caught by a different receiver but the QB needs to adjust to who he is throwing to. The two interceptions aren't apples to apples, of course --Shrader's did not lead to 6 points the other way.

I would say that the thing that makes them not apples to apples isn't that the one was returned for a TD, but that one pass required the receiver to make a simple play they should be trusted to make, and the receiver didn't have a chance on the other play (with some grace afforded that it's possible Mang wasn't where he was supposed to be).

 

[BrooklynCuse]

I saw nothing from Morgan last year to suggest he should be ahead of Shrader or Devito. Obviously the coaches feel the same.

Is this the same coaching staff that thought Tucker was our 4th best running back? Of didn’t run him the second half of Rutgers? Or didn’t put Alford or Cooper in until a games outcome was in place?

I agree Morgan probably isn’t even moving to #2 this year but some of Dino’s roster management is questionable

 

[TheCusian]

I think, and to be clear - this is only my opinion and nothing more, there has been a lot going on behind the scenes with Tommy.

I’m not saying it’s Tommy himself.

Now, Dino is not Nick Saban and has left a lot to be desired on his end for how he manages this program.

But I don’t think this was ever as easy as having “a talk” with Tommy.

ED came out and said Amie was the guy, not Tommy, to be next (in so many words). Dino brought in a transfer that was clearly at least supposed to compete for the job. There have been multiple announcing crews this year call out Tommy’s locking in on receivers.

If I had money to wager, I would guess that Tommy’s people at least put out feelers to see where he could go if he wanted to pull the rip cord and didn’t like the answers he got.

Point being, Dino, for whatever reason - lack of ability to run a program or promises made vs promises kept or just indecisiveness, I don’t believe, could have just had that talk and that be it.

There’s a lot of guessing and maybes and I’m not sure any of it is remotely valid, including the “point being” at the end

 

[All4SU]

Is this the same coaching staff that thought Tucker was our 4th best running back? Of didn’t run him the second half of Rutgers? Or didn’t put Alford or Cooper in until a games outcome was in place?

I agree Morgan probably isn’t even moving to #2 this year but some of Dino’s roster management is questionable

Well Tucker was behind two experienced “starters” in Adam’s and Howard, plus I guess maybe Jordan. But there’s no way to know if he would have stayed behind those players once the season started.

 

[SuRaider307]

I mean, he hit Pena in stride, right on his hands.

We're only saying it was too high and hard because Pena failed to catch it.

That play is on Pena, not DeVito.

On the replay, It showed a clip of Devito on the sidelines and you can read his lips saying it "wasnt to him" go and look at the replay... there is a receiver behind Pena about 5 yards or so more down field.. Devito was throwing to him(that's why it had so much zip on the pass)... I have not picked a side of the TD/GS debate yet.. but IF in fact Devito was not throwing to Pena... That means he did no see Pena..ie.. the short pass pattern.. and it might explain why there has been a ton of underneath stuff that has not been thrown/seen/attempted by TD in 3 years.. I dont think he sees the field very well...

 

[OrangeFoo]

The real question isn’t Shrader vs devito… it’s how in the world is the qb situation this bad in year 6? That alone is cause for Babers being let go. If he can’t spin developing an nfl qb into better qbs than we have now, that Is a flashing red warning sign that there is something seriously wrong with the program.