i find this so annoying

[orangecuse]

When the Cavs drafted Dion all the talk and excitement on Cleveland's side was that they had their young explosive backcourt of the future that would cause opposing teams a lot of problems for years to come.

I'm an all Cleveland pro sports fan...and visit Cleveland.com daily as well as other things Cleveland. I recall the team (generally not the fans) being excited about Waiters and the potential backcourt prowess with Irving at the helm. However, I don't believe the Cavs or its fans ever felt that Waiter's was a 'franchise/cornerstone' face of the program type guy, but rather a solid compliment to Irving. Now Waiter's may have viewed himself differently, but not the Cavs. There was talk as early as Waiter's rookie year of possibly being traded (the whole skipping the national anthem thing, etc.) not something typically done with a 'franchise' type guy.

 

[two3zone]

G is the most important piece on the team this year. I sure hope they get into the NCAA tournament and G has a couple of really big games and get noticed by the NBA scouts.

It doesn't matter what he does in the tournament, they have 4-5 years worth of data, what he does for a month isn't going to much impact if any. NBA scouts know who G is.

 

[SUOrangeSU]

Yes it's annoying but every case of this helps the coaches recruit. To attract talent, you got to put some bodies in the NBA and you're going to run into losing some before you thought a time or two...or 9 LOL

The Melo effect is essentially gone..he doesn't have the name with the youngsters anymore. They obviously know who he is but he's getting older and can barely stay on the court.

 

[two3zone]

Or he might have more fully exposed his weaknesses and limitations with another season of college basketball and dropped out of the first round. That, in my opinion, would have been more likely than a move into a top 10 draft position.

Agreed 100%, I think Ennis is one of those guys while he would have been very steady for us in year 2 and a great player, I don't see what he could have improved on to move him higher into the draft. Would have been far riskier for him to stay than to go.

 

[CorduroyG]

I don't blame him a bit either, I just remain a bit miffed at what the NBA folks saw that warranted/translated him in being such a prospect. I recall vividly when we played UVA at Paul Jones when Tyler was a freshman, where he went up against another fellow freshman in Perrentes. Perrentes certainly got the better of him that day, and, at least imo, looked like a better prospect. Much to my dismay, Perrentes is still at UVA and continues to be a thorn in our side and we don't have a true lead guard.

thats pretty much what i was getting at in my original post. i just dont see a big enough difference between ennis and paige that ennis was a 1 and done and paige is still on unc as a senior. and im not blaming ennis for leaving at all, we just have bad luck when it comes to guys sticking around and its really annoying watching these 3 and 4 year guys on other teams like perrentes and paige.

 

[Ward]

I'm an all Cleveland pro sports fan...and visit Cleveland.com daily as well as other things Cleveland. I recall the team (generally not the fans) being excited about Waiters and the potential backcourt prowess with Irving at the helm. However, I don't believe the Cavs or its fans ever felt that Waiter's was a 'franchise/cornerstone' face of the program type guy, but rather a solid compliment to Irving. Now Waiter's may have viewed himself differently, but not the Cavs. There was talk as early as Waiter's rookie year of possibly being traded (the whole skipping the national anthem thing, etc.) not something typically done with a 'franchise' type guy.

Well then I guess I'm mistaken. However, if the Cleveland front office spent the 4th pick in the draft on a guy they thought would just be a complementary player that they would entertain trading in a few months then it makes sense why they were so incompetent until being bailed out by Lebron.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I don't recall anyone ever projecting Waiters as a top five pick. I suspect it's partially just Cleveland doing Cleveland things.

 

[two3zone]

I don't recall anyone ever projecting Waiters as a top five pick. I suspect it's partially just Cleveland doing Cleveland things.

http://www.nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft

Last mock had him at 7 to GS, he was way way lower if I recall then shot up the last few days before the draft.

 

[HOFCeluck]

http://www.nbadraft.net/2012mock_draft

Last mock had him at 7 to GS, he was way way lower if I recall then shot up the last few days before the draft.

That's definitely higher than I remember.

 

[721Comstock]

Yes it's annoying but every case of this helps the coaches recruit. To attract talent, you got to put some bodies in the NBA and you're going to run into losing some before you thought a time or two...or 9 LOL

The Melo effect is essentially gone..he doesn't have the name with the youngsters anymore.
They obviously know who he is but he's getting older and can barely stay on the court.

Melo is the #14 scorer in the NBA this season, right behind Klay Thompson.
Who has appeared in exactly 1 game more than Melo, but is averaging 2 minutes/game less PT.

Notable "name" players that Melo is currently averaging a higher scoring average than:
Andrew Wiggins, Kemba Walker, Kawhi Leonard, John Wall, Gordon Hayward, Chris Bosh, Chris Paul, Dwayne Wade, Dirk Nowitzki, et al.

Clearly, he can barely stay on the court this year.

 

[orangecuse]

I don't recall anyone ever projecting Waiters as a top five pick. I suspect it's partially just Cleveland doing Cleveland things.

Most Cleveland fans were quite surprised, it not stunned by the Waiters pick, as two3zone's attachment suggests, most fans believed it would be/wanted Barnes.

 

[orangecuse]

Well then I guess I'm mistaken. However, if the Cleveland front office spent the 4th pick in the draft on a guy they thought would just be a complementary player that they would entertain trading in a few months then it makes sense why they were so incompetent until being bailed out by Lebron.

They cooled off on Barnes in the 11th hour...the Waiters pick stunned most Cleveland fans. Their spin ended up being that Waiters along with a projected future perennial all-star in Irving, that they'd have one of the better backcourts in the league. It became apparent rather quickly (in their front office) that it wasn't going to work out as hoped due to Waiters' inconsistency and problematic attitude.

 

[jncuse]

So you think he peaked his freshmen year and had no room for improvement? How do you come to this conclusion?

It's not whether he peaked as a player (which I am sure he hadn't). It's whether he peaked as a prospect. Major difference between the two. Scouts make allowances and factor in that a player is a freshmen.

I also think it was the perfect storm for Ennis to become a top prospect by the middle of January that year. He had an impeccable turnover ratio that was getting hyped. He was clutch. We were 25-0 ... his positives were getting really sold. And despite the fact that he was not a great athlete, his smarts and intangibles would make him a good player. I don't think his prospect rating was going to get higher because he is not a great athlete .. and that is was needed for a point guard to go in the high lotto.

We are also comparing apples and oranges with Paige. Ennis had the option of leaving for a guaranteed $5M contract in the NBA. Paige had the option of leaving UNC, not getting drafted, and playing who knows where and for how much.

 

[jncuse]

I doubt very much that when the Cavs drafted Waiters with the 4th pick of the draft that they envisioned him being a franchise cornerstone type of guy.

I doubt that the Cavs were even thinking when they made the Waiters pick.

 

[Dave85]

Or he might have more fully exposed his weaknesses and limitations with another season of college basketball and dropped out of the first round. That, in my opinion, would have been more likely than a move into a top 10 draft position.

Yes, it is your opinion. If he's truly an NBA caliber player it would not have matter.

 

[jncuse]

It doesn't matter what he does in the tournament, they have 4-5 years worth of data, what he does for a month isn't going to much impact if any. NBA scouts know who G is.

Indeed, and conference season is the time of the year player's get scouted the most. NBA scouts know when games are schedules, know who you will be playing a lefit team, know that you will in fact be playing (and not eliminated). Trying to scout players in the NCAA tournament is pure chaos - you just can't plan for it.

 

[Dave85]

It's not whether he peaked as a player (which I am sure he hadn't). It's whether he peaked as a prospect. Major difference between the two. Scouts make allowances and factor in that a player is a freshmen.

I also think it was the perfect storm for Ennis to become a top prospect by the middle of January that year. He had an impeccable turnover ratio that was getting hyped. He was clutch. We were 25-0 ... his positives were getting really sold. And despite the fact that he was not a great athlete, his smarts and intangibles would make him a good player. I don't think his prospect rating was going to get higher because he is not a great athlete .. and that is was needed for a point guard to go in the high lotto.

We are also comparing apples and oranges with Paige. Ennis had the option of leaving for a guaranteed $5M contract in the NBA. Paige had the option of leaving UNC, not getting drafted, and playing who knows where and for how much.

I think you are missing the whole point of the OP. It was not about Ennis leaving but more about Paige staying.

 

[Dave85]

It doesn't matter what he does in the tournament, they have 4-5 years worth of data, what he does for a month isn't going to much impact if any. NBA scouts know who G is.

I don't know if I agree with that. TE benefitted from 25-0 and beating Duke to become NBA draft material. Doing well in the NCAA tournament would be like a super bowl ad. Branding is very important.

 

[jncuse]

I think you are missing the whole point of the OP. It was not about Ennis leaving but more about Paige staying.

?? I was responding to your post in terms of whether Ennis had peaked as a prospect. That was 90% of my post.

The last few sentences were on the fact that Paige never had the options that Ennis did. The OP confirmed that the frustration was that Ennis had these options and Paige never did.

 

[two3zone]

I don't know if I agree with that. TE benefitted from 25-0 and beating Duke to become NBA draft material. Doing well in the NCAA tournament would be like a super bowl ad. Branding is very important.

Our 25-0 benefited more from Ennis that it did him. If we were 20-5 and he played the same he would have been noticed then too.

What are you talking about branding? What's TE's brand? Do you think the Suns GM or the Bucks GM who traded for him really care about Syracuse going 25-0 and beating Duke? Not at all, they could care less. They see a player, if the player is good they draft him. How do you think guys like Elfrid Payton and Damion Lillard get drafted so early? What about guys that play for garbage teams? If you have talent, you have talent and you get drafted.

Scouting is far far far far more advanced these days for a team to draft a guy who had a solid 5-6 games in the tournament.

 

[Dave85]

Our 25-0 benefited more from Ennis that it did him. If we were 20-5 and he played the same he would have been noticed then too.

What are you talking about branding? What's TE's brand? Do you think the Suns GM or the Bucks GM who traded for him really care about Syracuse going 25-0 and beating Duke? Not at all, they could care less. They see a player, if the player is good they draft him. How do you think guys like Elfrid Payton and Damion Lillard get drafted so early? What about guys that play for garbage teams? If you have talent, you have talent and you get drafted.

Scouting is far far far far more advanced these days for a team to draft a guy who had a solid 5-6 games in the tournament.

I think college basketball should be the main focus for college players while they are in college. Not the NBA. Once a player is on the NBA draft radar he might as well stop playing. What if he gets hurt?

 

[CusefanATL]

Or he might have more fully exposed his weaknesses and limitations with another season of college basketball and dropped out of the first round. That, in my opinion, would have been more likely than a move into a top 10 draft position.

Yep. exactly why I wasn't mad at him for going.

 

[Knicks411]

I think college basketball should be the main focus for college players while they are in college. Not the NBA. Once a player is on the NBA draft radar he might as well stop playing. What if he gets hurt?

Well it's easy for you to say it should be his #1 priority because the rest of his career doesn't impact you in any way.

If you're a legit NBA prospect, then doing the best thign for your potential nba career (whatever shape that takes) should be your #1 priority.

 

[Dave85]

Well it's easy for you to say it should be his #1 priority because the rest of his career doesn't impact you in any way.

If you're a legit NBA prospect, then doing the best thign for your potential nba career (whatever shape that takes) should be your #1 priority.

So even in the middle of season once a player gets on the NBA radar he should take it easy and try not to get hurt. Is that what you are saying? You know, not scrap for balls and stuff.

I disagree with this sentiment. I think the me-and-done mentality is really bad for CBB. I guess it depends on how much you love CBB. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[br801]

So even in the middle of season once a player gets on the NBA radar he should take it easy and try not to get hurt. Is that what you are saying? You know, not scrap for balls and stuff.

I disagree with this sentiment. I think the me-and-done mentality is really bad for CBB. I guess it depends on how much you love CBB. You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I think he's talking about the stay or go decision, not the effort one would exert within a game. You really need to get over this, Dave. You might try to imagine yourself in the shoes of a legitimate NBA prospect and weigh the options available, then honestly ask yourself what you would do in that situation.