I like DM

[kingottoiii]

how is he confusing those two points? you both agree about the difference between rosters and programs.

Because I brought up 26484 times that Marrone took over a team with more talent and he has responded every time about UL having a better program recently, which was changing the subject.

 

[RMH44]

Seriously. Good work ethic, believes in the university, believes in discipline, etc. However I also believed in Grob for a year or two, and P in the end years. The reality though is that after 3 years he is a sub .500 coach. He needs to get it done next year. Nassib will never be the answer, and the fact he hasn't let anyone else sniff the field, I fear it's going to either be Nassib again, or somebody with no game experience. Either way I don't see us winning more than 7 games and probably another 4/5 win season.

DM needs to get it done or resign. I've been very quiet this year. I could tell that this team was not as good as advertised after the first 2 games. They kept winning so I shut up, then after WV the real team showed up as I feared it would, but I figured whining about them wouldn't do any good so I simply limited my posts, and took a wait and see attitude. Also didn't jump into the fray last week when everyone's emotions were so hostile after the loss. But a rational view of DM's first 3 years is NOT good.

I'm not angry with DM like I was GRob. I felt Grob was burying the program after 3 years. DM isn't burying it necessarily, however 1-6 in the BE in year 3 is completely unacceptable and DM should be held accountable. Fired? Not yet, but he needs to be given a win or get out type of ultimatum. Next year we need to finish no less than 3rd in the BE. Anything else and I think we need to seriously consider our options before we become Duke North of the ACC.

Go back to the Syracuse.com board.

 

[OrangeAl]

if you want to call it not "sacking up", fine, i don't feel compelled to rain on everyone's parade the week before the season starts

You were so kind to us then, but now you're happy releasing a deluge on us?

 

[Millhouse]

You were so kind to us then, but now you're happy releasing a deluge on us?

i allow myself some optimism days before the season

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Not in my case. I felt that if we could go 6-6 and get itno a bowl it would be a good year.

Firing a coach for the third time in a decade and doing it just as we were entering the ACC would be incredibly stupid.

The statement CuseATL made that prompted my response that what he was stating was revisionist history was "EVERYONE and their mother was saying that this would be a step back year." Very few people were saying that. Apparently more were thinking that than said so at the time.

As to your second point, I'm not advocating for Marrone to be fired. I just am very concerned that he has philosophies that will always place us walking on a tightrope, and I don't believe that more time or more talent will fix those philosophies.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

if you want to call it not "sacking up", fine, i don't feel compelled to rain on everyone's parade the week before the season starts

The preseason progs post encouraged everyone to give their preseason prog. I gave mine. Are you really making the argument that people giving an honest prog "rains on everyone's parade?"

here's my prediction for next year. the offense will suck if nassib starts. i'll get more specific when we know schedule

Way to sack up.

maybe the pessimists lacked sack. that doesn't change how many of them there were. i wasn't suprised one bit that the offense stunk. if you want to ignore everything but one thread the week before the opener, fine, but that would be pretty stupid for such an esteemed social scientist as yourself

Putting aside the numerous accolades I've received as a social scientist, I don't recall many preseason voicing much expectation of a step back. I remember a lot of posts about which bowl we'd qualify for, how other commentators were wrong about SU, how the offense was going to take a big step forward and carry the defense, how the BE was down and it was there for the taking, etc. You're making an awesome argument though - people were pessimistic, but they didn't say so, so you're wrong in thinking there weren't more pessimists! OK, I guess.

I think this is a good old fashioned case of more of the cognitive dissonance that has really overtaken the board right around the time a bunch of people put all their chips in on Marrone. Our season didn't meet expectations, and rather than accept that reality we're revisiting our expectations and saying "On second thought, our expectations weren't that high after all. All those reasons why we didn't do that well, I remember talking about them preseason." And the board feels better.

 

[GoSU96]

Not in my case. I felt that if we could go 6-6 and get itno a bowl it would be a good year.

Firing a coach for the third time in a decade and doing it just as we were entering the ACC would be incredibly stupid.

True 'dat.

Chasing returns means just digging the hole deeper.

 

[Ozcuse]

Prediction threads from this and old board (Apologize for giving them traffic, but people wanted to know)

http://www.syracusefan.com/threads/ok-boys-girls-its-that-time-of-year-again-preason-progs.332/

http://mbd.At their request, this n...41 - Unofficial Season Prediction Thread 8/17

By the way, most people had 8-4 regular season, some had 9-3, few had 7-5, one had 6-6 and no one had a losing record. Kinda puts that "oh, looking back most of us really thought we would struggle this year" crap to bed. We all thought we would go bowling including me. Yes, it was disappointing and not expected.

 

[SWC75]

Prediction threads from this and old board (Apologize for giving them traffic, but people wanted to know)

http://www.syracusefan.com/threads/ok-boys-girls-its-that-time-of-year-again-preason-progs.332/

http://mbd.At their request, this n...41 - Unofficial Season Prediction Thread 8/17

By the way, most people had 8-4 regular season, some had 9-3, few had 7-5, one had 6-6 and no one had a losing record. Kinda puts that "oh, looking back most of us really thought we would struggle this year" crap to bed. We all thought we would go bowling including me. Yes, it was disappointing and not expected.

I didn't contribute to the prediction thread but here's a quote from my SU football preview post:

"People like to think, “Hey! We went 4-8 in Doug’s first year and 8-5 in his second year. We’ll go 10-3 this year and who, knows, maybe 12-0 next year!” I just don’t see it. I think at best the big breakthrough where we will be good every year will come in the middle or latter half of his decade. Doug began his tenure 60 years after Ben did. His seventh year will be 2015, his eighth 2016. At best, Doug is now recruiting the players that will be part of the real breakthrough. For the time being, we will likely hover around .500 as Ben and Mac did, alternating encouraging games and stretches with discouraging ones. Sports is all about hope and SU fans need to remain hopeful but also realistic, lest their optimism turn into rebellion and ruin the process."

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Prediction threads from this and old board (Apologize for giving them traffic, but people wanted to know)

http://www.syracusefan.com/threads/ok-boys-girls-its-that-time-of-year-again-preason-progs.332/

http://mbd.At their request, this n...41 - Unofficial Season Prediction Thread 8/17

By the way, most people had 8-4 regular season, some had 9-3, few had 7-5, one had 6-6 and no one had a losing record. Kinda puts that "oh, looking back most of us really thought we would struggle this year" crap to bed. We all thought we would go bowling including me. Yes, it was disappointing and not expected.

Thanks for grabbing this.

 

[Pyle]

Go back to the Syracuse.com board.

Why? Because I question the coach in year 3 after a 1-6 conference record? Gimmie a break. It's not like I was even calling for his head now. Just saying we need to take a step forward next year or we will be going into the ACC with a coach who has a 5 year sub .500 record. Forget that Doug played for Mac. If this was any other coach, and year 4 ends up like this one, are you really gonna sit there and tell me changes wouldn't need to be made? Sorry if rocking the boat makes you seasick, i've got some Dramamine in the compartment under the seat you are sitting on. Help yourself.

 

[Pyle]

True 'dat.

Chasing returns means just digging the hole deeper.

And apathy leads to program death. See Jake C and Buzz S. If we can't beat UL, Cincy, USF, or UCONN then how are we supposed to even compete with Clemson, FSU, or VT? At this rate HCRE is going to kick our butt too.

 

[javadoc]

And apathy leads to program death. See Jake C and Buzz S.

There we agree. Buzz neglected (harmed, actually) the AD and we are paying the price to this day. The surest way to shelve apathy is to get to work on the new football practice facility, upgrade our team meeting/rec areas, and the rehab/medical stuff.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

That isn't true by any means. Art Jones was a big time player. DC3 was a big time player. Bart was already playing. Chandler was a strong prospect. Smith had already moved to LB. Hogue was moved to LB but he also wanted to do so before Marrone arrived and was recruited by BCS programs to play LB. It wasn't like Marrone came up with some great idea. Provo was a decent prospect. Ant already had a break out game before Marrone ever stepped on campus. Not one of the above guys came out of left field to become All BE. Most had success pre Marrone. And only one switched positions but lets be honest that one was in the cards for a long time.

The only two who fit your argument are Pugh and Lemon. The other 8 guys do not.

Come on dude... you gotta be shittin me right? Can you shade this post any more in favor of your pissy little argument over whether or not it matters who inherited the biggest cow flop program? Provo was a decent prospect? Bart was playing? Chandler was a strong prospect? Hogue "wanted" to move to LB? Wow, these are amazing insights that explain NOTHING, because there are a thousand players across the country that could be described via the same patronizing scouting reports... as well as dozens on the current Syracuse roster. DC3 MAY have ended up great either way, but because he was a different player before his injury, and was stuck in a battle for carries after, you can't assume too much of his future was set in stone.

Nobody is asking you to wear the orange glasses, but do you think you can pick ONE side of the argument. Either give credit to Marrone for developing a bunch of 2 and 3 star guys, or stick with your view that GRob had them on the path to success and all that was needed was a little patience. I kind of hope you pick the later, because then you might be able to explain to all the other recruiting gurus out there why it is WAY WAY WAAAAAAAY to early to act like we know just how bad the Frosh and Soph Marrone recruits are going to end up.

 

[Millhouse]

Prediction threads from this and old board (Apologize for giving them traffic, but people wanted to know)

http://www.syracusefan.com/threads/ok-boys-girls-its-that-time-of-year-again-preason-progs.332/

http://mbd.At their request, this network is being blocked from this site./mb.aspx?s=185&f=2826&t=7788341 - Unofficial Season Prediction Thread 8/17

By the way, most people had 8-4 regular season, some had 9-3, few had 7-5, one had 6-6 and no one had a losing record. Kinda puts that "oh, looking back most of us really thought we would struggle this year" crap to bed. We all thought we would go bowling including me. Yes, it was disappointing and not expected.

Thanks for grabbing this.

heh i didn't know i took part in that.

 

[Millhouse]

Putting aside the numerous accolades I've received as a social scientist, I don't recall many preseason voicing much expectation of a step back. I remember a lot of posts about which bowl we'd qualify for, how other commentators were wrong about SU, how the offense was going to take a big step forward and carry the defense, how the BE was down and it was there for the taking, etc. You're making an awesome argument though - people were pessimistic, but they didn't say so, so you're wrong in thinking there weren't more pessimists! OK, I guess.

I think this is a good old fashioned case of more of the cognitive dissonance that has really overtaken the board right around the time a bunch of people put all their chips in on Marrone. Our season didn't meet expectations, and rather than accept that reality we're revisiting our expectations and saying "On second thought, our expectations weren't that high after all. All those reasons why we didn't do that well, I remember talking about them preseason." And the board feels better.

as usual you take something simple and make edly convoluted and long winded. people don't want to be the day before the season starts. i was pretty close in describing how the season actually went, i just chose to hope they'd get by uconn.

 

[kingottoiii]

Nobody is asking you to wear the orange glasses, but do you think you can pick ONE side of the argument. Either give credit to Marrone for developing a bunch of 2 and 3 star guys, or stick with your view that GRob had them on the path to success and all that was needed was a little patience. I kind of hope you pick the later, because then you might be able to explain to all the other recruiting gurus out there why it is WAY WAY WAAAAAAAY to early to act like we know just how bad the Frosh and Soph Marrone recruits are going to end up.

1. What does this have to do with GRob's coaching. That is an unrelated argument. Sorry none of those players were coached up IMO by Marrone. If GRob was never fired they would have been coached down. Those guys all had success BEFORE Marrone. Because they continued to have success, Marrone gets credit? That is silly. BTW I am not even mentioning non All BE guys like Sales, Holmes, MW, Merk, and Speller who were all talented kids. Also do you give credit for GRob developing MW? Or was MW just a good player? See my argument is that these kids were talented. Talent is talent. Marrone cannot give a kid talent. He can put kids in the position to make plays, and he is waaaay better at doing that than GRob. No argument there. But the fact is those kids were talented and all had success with GRob. Those kids all made Marrone's job easier.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

as usual you take something simple and make edly convoluted and long winded.

And how else do you propose exactly that one garner accolades in the social sciences?