If we do not win another game?

[jekelish]

Over the course of 14 years it chips away. True fair weather is when a good program has a down couple years and people don't go. Not 14.

Disagree entirely. Tell that to Cubs fans, for instance.

For the record, I don't believe anyone on this forum is fair-weather. People don't spend their free time discussing Syracuse football if they're a fair-weather fan. But people who only show up during the good times are unquestionably fair-weather fans.

 

[RF2044]

Who cares what you've done. It's ignorant to call fans fickle or fair weather when the record has been 59-101 over FOURTEEN years including a price structure that's out of whack.,

That post is proof positive that YOU are ignorant about collegiate athletics. Anybody who watches sports knows that our attendance is the epitome of fair weather.

If you want to bitch about team performance--go for it. If $100 is too much for season tickets, don't go. Don't attend, or do--whatever is your choice. But don't pretend that the support for our program sucks beyond a few thousand who root unconditionally for SU. The record is surely a factor. The recent performance is also surely making fans stay home.

But it is what it is. And your goofy defensiveness doesn't change the fact that we don't have strong support in the community, outside of a couple of thousand strong fans.

"Who cares what I've done". Piss off.

 

[RF2044]

Disagree entirely. Tell that to Cubs fans, for instance.

For the record, I don't believe anyone on this forum is fair-weather. People don't spend their free time discussing Syracuse football if they're a fair-weather fan. But people who only show up during the good times are unquestionably fair-weather fans.

Spot on.

 

[RF2044]

Disagree entirely. Tell that to Cubs fans, for instance.

For the record, I don't believe anyone on this forum is fair-weather. People don't spend their free time discussing Syracuse football if they're a fair-weather fan. But people who only show up during the good times are unquestionably fair-weather fans.

But over the course of 114 years it chips away. True fair weather is when a good program has a down couple years and people don't go. Not 114.

 

[AZOrange]

Disagree entirely. Tell that to Cubs fans, for instance.

For the record, I don't believe anyone on this forum is fair-weather. People don't spend their free time discussing Syracuse football if they're a fair-weather fan. But people who only show up during the good times are unquestionably fair-weather fans.

Anyone that can survive that misery is either drunk or insane.

 

[jekelish]

Anyone that can survive that misery is either drunk or insane.

Well, good thing there are plenty of drunks in Syracuse.

And insane people, come to think of it.

 

[rrlbees]

Disagree entirely. Tell that to Cubs fans, for instance. For the record, I don't believe anyone on this forum is fair-weather. People don't spend their free time discussing Syracuse football if they're a fair-weather fan. But people who only show up during the good times are unquestionably fair-weather fans.

Couldn't disagree more. If so then most every program has fair weather fans. I doubt too many would maintain attendance numbers with a 14 year record we've had. There's also the consideration that during those 14 years, tix costs in general have gone up. Not a good formula. And as to a percentage, I'm willing to bet the percentage of the local fan base has gone down less than out of towners or alumni. I also don't care about the strict dictionary definition of fair weather. I'm using it in context of attendance decline which btw has gone down across the country. .

 

[jekelish]

Who said other programs don't have fair-weather fans? Where did I ever say that? Oh, right: I didn't.

 

[rrlbees]

That post is proof positive that YOU are ignorant about collegiate athletics. Anybody who watches sports knows that our attendance is the epitome of fair weather. If you want to bitch about team performance--go for it. If $100 is too much for season tickets, don't go. Don't attend, or do--whatever is your choice. But don't pretend that the support for our program sucks beyond a few thousand who root unconditionally for SU. The record is surely a factor. The recent performance is also surely making fans stay home. But it is what it is. And your goofy defensiveness doesn't change the fact that we don't have strong support in the community, outside of a couple of thousand strong fans. "Who cares what I've done". Piss off.

You can cut the childish outbursts. That's twice now.

And you and jek can disagree all you want, the fans aren't being fickle when it comes to this area and the local team is 59-114. But pull up an example like the Cubs. It's apples and oranges.

 

[jekelish]

I'd just like to point out that just because you believe something, doesn't mean that someone else's opinion on the matter is automatically wrong or inconsequential to the discussion.

 

[TheCusian]

No offense but this post is kind of lame. I worry about getting fired every day. It's what keeps you motivated. If I had a record like shafers I'd be toast. I hate to sound callous but the only things that matter here at (I) wins, and (Ii) butts in the seats. All this other stuff is window dressing. I've had to make calls on people. It's awful. But it's reality.

I don't think you're really hearing what I'm saying. When you evaluate a person who you will fire or retain do you pick just one thing that matters or do you look at all of the things that matter for that person to be effective?

When they evaluate you do you hope they take your total job performance into consideration or just one metric?

Here's a great example. I work freelance and was up against a tight deadline. The night before the magazine I was designing was due, my hard drive fried itself. I called the client the next day and explained my situation, or as you might call it "excuse"... And they could have fired me from the project. But they did not. I drove to the Apple Store worked my arse off and delivered the project two days late. They were a good client because they understood context.

Now what if I told you Marrone played a 100+ SOS his second year including two FCS programs to go 8-5? But in Shafers two year his SOS has been averaging in the 30-40 range? And that the year they played the #24 ranked SOS they lost their starting QB and key contributors from the line, and WR corp?

I mean if all you want to see is being two days late on a deadline or 8-5 vs 3-9... Go for it.

And I'm not saying their are not things that Shafer should get a pass for. His hiring and demotion of McDonald was a clusterf. He's made some bad in-game calls that led to losses. And he hasn't won the big one yet vs a ranked team. All I'm saying is it's dumb to blindly look at w-l and base a decision on that, solely.

 

[rrlbees]

I'd just like to point out that just because you believe something, doesn't mean that someone else's opinion on the matter is automatically wrong or inconsequential to the discussion.

And my original post said the fans weren't fickle. Which means my opinion isn't wrong either then. And fickle is more like sudden changes. Which means we should have had 45k at the game after LSU if the fans were fickle.

 

[PoppyHart]

Disagree entirely. Tell that to Cubs fans, for instance.

For the record, I don't believe anyone on this forum is fair-weather. People don't spend their free time discussing Syracuse football if they're a fair-weather fan. But people who only show up during the good times are unquestionably fair-weather fans.

Once mathematically elimated, which has been very early, you could not give tickets away to Cubs games in the 6-7 years before this year. Speaking for someone who lived there for 12 years, "Cubs fans" are THE MOST fair weather of all fans, bar none.

 

[rrlbees]

Who said other programs don't have fair-weather fans? Where did I ever say that? Oh, right: I didn't.

Then you must agree that except for a small number of schools, most every school would have attendance issues if they were 59-101 and thus be "fair weather" fans in the strictest sense. So if it's kinda normal then why year after year do syracuse fans get called out for it, usually by people living out of town that can't go to games themselves?

 

[jekelish]

Then you must agree that except for a small number of schools, most every school would have attendance issues if they were 59-101 and thus be "fair weather" fans in the strictest sense. So if it's kinda normal then why year after year do syracuse fans get called out for it, usually by people living out of town that can't go to games themselves?

Do you honestly not believe these same conversations go on with other fanbases? Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they don't happen. Outside of the Cowboys, I hear these same conversations constantly about basically every other sports team in the Dallas area, from the Rangers right on down to SMU.

 

[rrlbees]

Do you honestly not believe these same conversations go on with other fanbases? Just because you don't see them doesn't mean they don't happen.

And those people would be wrong too for calling them out.

 

[jekelish]

And those people would be wrong too for calling them out.

Calling them out, like, individually? Sure. But overall, in a general sense? Again, I disagree. I can't stand fair-weather fans. To me, when things are going well and they suddenly pop up to try to act like they're huge fans, it's disingenuous and irritates me because I don't feel like they've earned it like the diehards have.

Just my opinion.

 

[two3zone]

I love the teams effort. But our season is collapsing faster than Lamar Odom in a Brothel.

Well done, well done. Bravo sir.

 

[rrlbees]

Calling them out, like, individually? Sure. But overall, in a general sense? Again, I disagree. I can't stand fair-weather fans. To me, when things are going well and they suddenly pop up to try to act like they're huge fans, it's disingenuous and irritates me because I don't feel like they've earned it like the diehards have. Just my opinion.

And I would agree if one year we were 9-3 and 45k showed up, the same the next year, then we go 3-9 and people stop going, then a couple years later it's back to 9-3 and 45k. Then I'd say those favs are fickle, fair weather, front runners, whatever. But when it's an ongoing thing for 14 years and the attendance shows a steady year after year decline, I'm not calling those fans fickle or fair weather. Just my opinion.

 

[Bayside44]

This was a fun read with my morning coffee.

In those 14 years we've been to bowls about a third of the time. It wasn't that bad.

People seem to be waiting for Donovan McNabb to walk back in that door. Well he might've if he can stay on his feet.

I am with OPA on this one, it's a good team to see. It's close. I didn't think SS was the guy but he's got them close. Let's see if he can get em over the hump next season.

 

[Rocco]

Actually it depends who it is.

No it doesn't IMO. These young kids are gelling well with this staff right now and they are young. We're on the verge of putting it all together. Bringing in a different staff that would have to mesh with these kids is not the solution right now, let alone would it work out.

 

[orangehomer]

Make your own decision. If you don't want to stick it out and support the team, don't let the door hit you a$$ on the way out.

I'm not going to fault you, but I'm also sure not going to commend you for withdrawing support.

I'm not finding where I said I would "withdraw support". I am the last of the departments problems.

 

[orangehomer]

This was a fun read with my morning coffee.

In those 14 years we've been to bowls about a third of the time. It wasn't that bad.

People seem to be waiting for Donovan McNabb to walk back in that door. Well he might've if he can stay on his feet.

I am with OPA on this one, it's a good team to see. It's close. I didn't think SS was the guy but he's got them close. Let's see if he can get em over the hump next season.

it wasn't that bad? im sorry but the best bowl we went to was the pinstripe, 3 times. our best win total was 8 counting the bowl, that wouldn't have existed 15 years ago. we went to a bowl "about a third of the time" when more than half the teams go to bowls now! its probably more like 60% of the P5 teams go to bowls now, it is a bare minimum not an achievement.

 

[jgeorge322]

To address the above points, i would bet 90% of any fan base is fair weather and 10% is diehards. Us folks are the diehards and weve had 15 years of misery such that one 8-5 season from doug marrone was a breath of fresh air. Michigans big house would be the empty house if they had the 15 year stretch we had. Its about 95% about the record

Edit: maybe we should not use fair weather. It has a negative connotation. Maybe we should just call them average fans.

 

[RoatanCuse]

My wife and I don'tt argue anymore. We get out all our frustration just reading this board. Thank you all!