If we don’t make the tournament next yr, is Red gone?

[HRE Otto IV]

I feel like in BBall unless the HC is inept, you can stick with a guy you like. It is really the assistants that need to be changed. I think Red was fine with the actual basketball part of the job. The off court stuff, how much was it the players and how much was a lack of control of those misfits? As long as he can command the team, I rather him stay.

With the portal it is unacceptable to miss the NCAAT. If we miss again next year, there has to be 1-2 changes to the staff no questions asked. We need guys who have relationships outside of DMV and can get portal players here.

Even if we do make the NCAAT, we might have to shake things up should we still be far from a Top 25 team.

 

[Sbucketball]

I have the feeling Red's leash is a lot longer than most here think. Barring a Kenny Payne-type season, his seat isn't going to be hot after next year.

 

[ORANGE OATH]

Unless there is a serious scandal of some making I see no way that Red is gone even if he finishes in the bottom quartile of the ACC this coming season.
He is currently on the right track as far as I can tell. When you bring in players like Freeman, you set yourself up to be here for a long long time. We are working out of a deep hole that was the Jimmy & Sons show. I see sunlight ahead, hope we all get a tan !

 

[Delmar]

During the Boeheim-Autry era, the head coaches have averaged 568 wins and only and only 226 losses. The coaches have averaged 24 years of service. With that kind of consistency, I doubt any change will be coming soon.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

During the Boeheim-Autry era, the head coaches have averaged 568 wins and only and only 226 losses. The coaches have averaged 24 years of service. With that kind of consistency, I doubt any change will be coming soon.

This should get filed into the “completely irrelevant and useless stats that don’t matter” category.

 

[kcsu]

Not suggesting that Red needs to do this THIS year, but it is possible to have a team that is known to be in before the selection show without those 1-2 games breaking right. We used to have it ALL the time.

That was a very long time ago.

 

[rrlbees]

This should get filed into the “completely irrelevant and useless stats that don’t matter” category.

I think he was being funny.

 

[Delmar]

This should get filed into the “completely irrelevant and useless stats that don’t matter” category.

which was sort of my intention.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Still plenty of talent still available in the portal. So hard to grade an incomplete product.

If I had to grade at this very second, I’m extremely disappointed. The portal adds have been meh at best and we still have significant needs at PG.

Some people tried to push the narrative Red was hired late in the process last year and that’s why the team didn’t have great talent and didnt fit together. Which was laughably false.

We had the 11th ranked portal class.

JJ - #5 overall, #1 combo guard
Westry- #76 overall, # 10 combo guard
McLeod- #323 overall, #46 center
Cuffe- #342 overall, #26 combo guard

McLeod now has a foot injury for a 7 footer and did not look good this year. Hopefully he will be much better in a backup role.

Lot of talk Westry could be really good. But he hasn’t played college basketball in 2 years and has multiple knee injuries. Is his potential ever realized? Have to be some questions/concerns about him.

At this point this year we have lost a lot of talent. Now from all reports, a lot of these were net positive departures. But based on the talent on the squad, you would think that would make it easier to attract better players to come shine. And so far, I’m not sure that has come to fruition.

Contributors we lost to transfer.

Brown #68 overall, #9 PF
Copeland #173 overall, #35 PG
Taylor- #308 overall, #64 Small forward
Williams - #240 overall, #49 Small Forward

Currently we are ranked 38 in transfer Portal rankings.

Davis- #132 overall, #29 SF
Lampkin- #205 overall, #33 C
Carlos- #212 overall, #43 PG

Lot easier to grade and scout players currently in college and the quality of players we are adding are not as good as the players we are loosing. That we thought were not that good or headaches. (Not talking about Brown here).

In addition, Jeff Goodman tweeted the other day. UConn, Alabama, Baylor continue to get players without big NIL offers. It’s not always about the money.

So I’m looking at our current roster and can’t help but question the construction. I feel as if we have a lot more questions than answers.

Hope to be proven wrong. And still a lot of time to add more pieces to the puzzle. But at this time. I am not particularly excited about this roster.

Benny was 240?

 

[Delmar]

I think he was being funny.

Thank you. At least I was trying to be funny. On certain topics this board is humorless.

 

[kingtidge]

I have the feeling Red's leash is a lot longer than most here think. Barring a Kenny Payne-type season, his seat isn't going to be hot after next year.

If we can't land our #1 targets in the portal consistently because we can't match competing team offers, the problem will not be Red.

Time will tell.

 

[CU44SE]

If we can't land our #1 targets in the portal consistently because we can't match competing team offers, the problem will not be Red.

Time will tell.

I couldn’t disagree more. Does money play a small part, sure.

1- Goodman posted the other day of 3 teams continually winning recruits and not being the highest bidder. Baylor, Alabama, Uconn. It’s about the fit and buying into the team.

2- Do you really think we were the highest bidder for every football transfer we got this past year? If we were not how did we manage to get these kids?

You can’t always blame everything on the money. Although important, sometimes it’s about putting kids in the right position, being honest with them, and providing them with the necessary support and tools to further their careers. People claimed teams cheated for years with bags under the table. Hate to tell you, but Kentucky won 1 time since calipari came? And he won 0 times at Memphis?

The team that spends the most doesn’t win the most. Look at the history of any sport. Usually the teams that spend the most money do not win it all. UConn just went back to back and do not have this massive chest of NIL money to disperse. Let’s stop trying to make excuses for why Syracuse or Red may not succeed.

ultimately, if Red doesn’t get the job done it’s on him. Plenty of coaches have been successful without a massive NIL chest to utilize.

 

[Cuse181]

Unless there is a serious scandal of some making I see no way that Red is gone even if he finishes in the bottom quartile of the ACC this coming season.
He is currently on the right track as far as I can tell. When you bring in players like Freeman, you set yourself up to be here for a long long time. We are working out of a deep hole that was the Jimmy & Sons show. I see sunlight ahead, hope we all get a tan !

If he finishes in the bottom quartile? I sure hope those conversations happen. You can bring in 100 freemans, but if you can't make the tournament, or even finish with 7+ wins in the ACC (which is likely to be 12th or worse this year) then you are not worth the dollars. Good recruiters get canned all the time because they don't win at a high enough clip.

 

[FrancoPizza]

ultimately, if Red doesn’t get the job done it’s on him. Plenty of coaches have been successful without a massive NIL chest to utilize.

Spot on. And if he feels the NIL needs to be stronger, then he needs to lead that charge and find a way to make it happen.

 

[kingtidge]

I couldn’t disagree more. Does money play a small part, sure... UConn just went back to back and do not have this massive chest of NIL money to disperse. Let’s stop trying to make excuses for why Syracuse or Red may not succeed.

ultimately, if Red doesn’t get the job done it’s on him. Plenty of coaches have been successful without a massive NIL chest to utilize.

I am not blaming anyone... What part of "Time will tell" aren't you getting?

Also, bolded above...

Hypothetical:
Let's say our NIL outlay over the next 3 years is in the lower half of the P5 spending curve, what would your expectation for our performance be?

Are you going to say "Top 25 because Red needs to be good at finding value and diamonds-in-the-rough and he needs to outperform other teams spending more." ??

I would argue, that's wishful thinking, but great if he can pull it off.

Also, is that a sustainable approach?? Law of averages over time says probably not...

NIL is changing and the sums going out are ratcheting up at a fever pace as players and agents get better at the negotiating and programs grow their NIL collective warchests at varying rates... so it's hard to compare even last year to what the environment will be like even next year...

 

[sufandu]

I couldn’t disagree more. Does money play a small part, sure.

1- Goodman posted the other day of 3 teams continually winning recruits and not being the highest bidder. Baylor, Alabama, Uconn. It’s about the fit and buying into the team.

2- Do you really think we were the highest bidder for every football transfer we got this past year? If we were not how did we manage to get these kids?

You can’t always blame everything on the money. Although important, sometimes it’s about putting kids in the right position, being honest with them, and providing them with the necessary support and tools to further their careers. People claimed teams cheated for years with bags under the table. Hate to tell you, but Kentucky won 1 time since calipari came? And he won 0 times at Memphis?

The team that spends the most doesn’t win the most. Look at the history of any sport. Usually the teams that spend the most money do not win it all. UConn just went back to back and do not have this massive chest of NIL money to disperse. Let’s stop trying to make excuses for why Syracuse or Red may not succeed.

ultimately, if Red doesn’t get the job done it’s on him. Plenty of coaches have been successful without a massive NIL chest to utilize.

We need to stop comparing Red to Fran. We shouldn't compare anyone to Fran. He is unique.

Also comparing us to the 3 teams that are getting transfers without being the highest bidder without context is foolish. Guys wanna play for winners. Those three have been winning for a while now. It's not like they all had instant success. Scott Drew didn't make the tournament until his 5th year. Hurley didn't make it until his 3rd, and UConn had won a NC 5 years before that. If we're going to compare, let's include the context.

 

[NKR1978]

I have the feeling Red's leash is a lot longer than most here think. Barring a Kenny Payne-type season, his seat isn't going to be hot after next year.

That would be depressing. Four seasons of not even sniffing the tournament and no accountability? If Red was an outside hire, I'd say he deserves a longer leash, but it's possible he was part of the problem with JB.

 

[Scotch]

That would be depressing. Four seasons of not even sniffing the tournament and no accountability? If Red was an outside hire, I'd say he deserves a longer leash, but it's possible he was part of the problem with JB.

Two seasons for Red. We have to stop piling JB’s failures onto Red.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Google Image Result for https://media2.giphy.com/media/p8wLy6i3OEI1i/200.gif?cid=6c09b952zzwmggmy70rwmywutaev71kz4e1eshysjdnudzsz&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=200.gif&ct=g

 

[orangecuse]

We need to stop comparing Red to Fran. We shouldn't compare anyone to Fran. He is unique.

Also comparing us to the 3 teams that are getting transfers without being the highest bidder without context is foolish. Guys wanna play for winners. Those three have been winning for a while now. It's not like they all had instant success. Scott Drew didn't make the tournament until his 5th year. Hurley didn't make it until his 3rd, and UConn had won a NC 5 years before that. If we're going to compare, let's include the context.

What makes Fran so "unique" as you allege? His previous head coaching record compared to Red's?

Interesting that you mention the word "context" especially as it relates to UConn. This place has been obsessed with UConn for years, not to mention their alleged projected doom by many after being left at the alter. I don't think anyone around here needs much "context" when it comes to UConn, their plight, etc. as most are quite familar.

Additionally, on that "context" again, when Drew took over at Baylor, that program was in complete shambles due to the scandal, but no mention of that in your "5 years for Drew to make the tournament."

I agree that "guys wanna play for winners." Oates had success at UB prior to Alabama, Hurley the same at his stints at Wagner and Rhode Island. Drew, another son of a successful coach, had success, albeit left after just one season, at Valpo.

In regards to these three aforementioned head coaches, I agree folks shouldn't compare Red to them as they all had a degree of prior success at the head coaching level.

 

[NKR1978]

Two seasons for Red. We have to stop piling JB’s failures onto Red.

How many NCAA tournaments can we miss before we get to question Red?

 

[Scotch]

How many NCAA tournaments can we miss before we get to question Red?

Up to you, but seems fair to give the guy more than one recruiting cycle.

 

[sufandu]

Two seasons for Red. We have to stop piling JB’s failures onto Red.

It's funny how people want to tie JB and red together despite how people in the know making it clear JB wasn't listening to his assistants in the end and how he also had mailed it in on the recruiting trail.

 

[sufandu]

How many NCAA tournaments can we miss before we get to question Red?

How many would you give any coach without a connection to JB?

 

[djcon57]

Up to you, but seems fair to give the guy more than one recruiting cycle.

So 1 year? That's the new recruiting cycle in 2024.