I'm going to Defend JB

[Sherman20]

Look up the name Rob Johnson.

Another ridiculous tempest in a teapot. The NCAA proved nothing with Rob Johnson and Syracuse. But that’s not how the NCAA infractions process works. They don’t actually have to prove anything. It’s a kangaroo court. Sorry, dash, you’re wrong on this. I grew up in Syracuse and many fans believed and still believe the NCAA railroaded SU into probation in the early 90s. Read the SI Johnson article linked in the post above. Texas A&M got in trouble and Kermit Davis lost his job because he paid Johnson a number of times and gave him tangible benefits. The NCAA asserted that Johnson was a representative of SU’s athletic interests, but they never proved (beyond insinuation) that Johnson had any monetary or other ties to SU beyond being a fan of the program (dating back to Waldron, his friend, going to SU). Johnson was basically a less sophisticated, less wealthy version of Worldwide Wes. He wanted to be around the action. JB was guilty of being naive but not blatantly breaking rules.

 

[Alsacs]

Another ridiculous tempest in a teapot. The NCAA proved nothing with Rob Johnson and Syracuse. But that’s not how the NCAA infractions process works. They don’t actually have to prove anything. It’s a kangaroo court. Sorry, dash, you’re wrong on this. I grew up in Syracuse and many fans believed and still believe the NCAA railroaded SU into probation in the early 90s.

If Dasher says it then it’s true.
The guy is Teddy Roosevelt. He speaks softly and carries a big stick.

True journalist.
He knows more than he says on here for obvious reasons.

We got lucky with the first probation. Now the PS helped the NCAA but I believe when Dasher says non-opinion stuff. It’s 100% money in the bank.

 

[Bayside44]

If Dasher says it then it’s true.
The guy is Teddy Roosevelt. He speaks softly and carries a big stick.

True journalist.
He knows more than he says on here for obvious reasons.

We got lucky with the first probation. Now the PS helped the NCAA but I believe when Dasher says non-opinion stuff. It’s 100% money in the bank.

He also wears a monocle.

The guys at the Post Standard wrote it to get an award and a better job. It's nickel and dime stuff.

There are plenty of lax mamas and dad bros setting up schemes placing kids. They won't touch that though...

 

[CousCuse]

Another ridiculous tempest in a teapot. The NCAA proved nothing with Rob Johnson and Syracuse. But that’s not how the NCAA infractions process works. They don’t actually have to prove anything. It’s a kangaroo court. Sorry, dash, you’re wrong on this. I grew up in Syracuse and many fans believed and still believe the NCAA railroaded SU into probation in the early 90s.

That kind of stuff goes on at every kind of college sports team at every level, men's and women's.

 

[pearl31]

my god if we're really relitigating the early 90s transgressions (an era in major D1 football/hoops so rampantly filthy it made guys like Switzer and Tarkanian blush)... uh yeah then we probably got an axe to grind

 

[bozophobe]

The Pope used to shop at Bill Rapp Popemobile.

 

[OmahaCuse]

Every good business has succession planning. At some point a leader wants to give the keys to someone else to be successful. It seems Hopkins was setup to take over after years of being a understudy. I'm convinced that if BB did not end up at SU it would have played out as planned.

Many coaches can succeed in later years (Bill Snyder, Coach K, etc) but many have to be dragged of the court in a not so happy ending. The way this is trending JB is going to go down with BB. We won't even recruit a top 2G to come here, or none will coming here knowing the situation. Probably have to ride out 2 more years of so so seasons and then we can get a fresh face. Like what Louisville did, Alabama did, etc. we are a blue blood job could see Oats, Williard, Hurley, etc. JB will be almost 80 in 2 years and except for being a president of the US, seems way too old to connect with kids and have the energy needed.

If admin wants to keep in-house we know all the choices. It would keep the zone in place (which I am not sure is good or bad for recruiting kids)?

 

[justgold315]

CousCuse & CuseRunner vs. tbone...

 

[Sherman20]

If Dasher says it then it’s true.
The guy is Teddy Roosevelt. He speaks softly and carries a big stick.

True journalist.
He knows more than he says on here for obvious reasons.

We got lucky with the first probation. Now the PS helped the NCAA but I believe when Dasher says non-opinion stuff. It’s 100% money in the bank.

Read SI’s Johnson article linked in the post above. Texas A&M got in trouble and Kermit Davis lost his job because he paid Johnson a number of times and gave him tangible benefits. The NCAA later asserted that Johnson was a representative of SU’s athletic interests, but they never proved (beyond insinuation) that Johnson had any monetary or other ties to SU beyond being a fan of the program (dating back to Waldron, his friend, going to SU). Johnson was basically a less sophisticated, less wealthy version of Worldwide Wes. He wanted to be around the action. JB may be guilty of being naive or having his head in the sand but not blatantly breaking rules. There’s so much gossip and insinuation in that SI article, both from the journalists and the other high school coaches, I’m still surprised editors allowed a lot of that to be published.

 

[CousCuse]

Read SI’s Johnson article linked in the post above. Texas A&M got in trouble and Kermit Davis lost his job because he paid Johnson a number of times and gave him tangible benefits. The NCAA later asserted that Johnson was a representative of SU’s athletic interests, but they never proved (beyond insinuation) that Johnson had any monetary or other ties to SU beyond being a fan of the program (dating back to Waldron, his friend, going to SU). Johnson was basically a less sophisticated, less wealthy version of Worldwide Wes. He wanted to be around the action. JB may be guilty of being naive or having his head in the sand but not blatantly breaking rules. There’s so much gossip and insinuation in that SI article, both from the journalists and the other high school coaches, I’m still surprised editors allowed a lot of that to be published.

Smear.

 

[Sherman20]

my god if we're really relitigating the early 90s transgressions (an era in major D1 football/hoops so rampantly filthy it made guys like Switzer and Tarkanian blush)... uh yeah then we probably got an axe to grind

Exactly. I’m a dasher fan, but if he’s going to bring the early 90s probation into this (and others do it too), I’m gonna push back on that. I’m well versed in all the accusations from back then, and my opinion is that SU largely got railroaded and the infractions were small potatoes, though there were some stupid self-inflicted wounds.

 

[bozophobe]

Kermit was too green, anyway.

 

[Alsacs]

Read SI’s Johnson article linked in the post above. Texas A&M got in trouble and Kermit Davis lost his job because he paid Johnson a number of times and gave him tangible benefits. The NCAA later asserted that Johnson was a representative of SU’s athletic interests, but they never proved (beyond insinuation) that Johnson had any monetary or other ties to SU beyond being a fan of the program (dating back to Waldron, his friend, going to SU). Johnson was basically a less sophisticated, less wealthy version of Worldwide Wes. He wanted to be around the action. JB may be guilty of being naive or having his head in the sand but not blatantly breaking rules. There’s so much gossip and insinuation in that SI article, both from the journalists and the other high school coaches, I’m still surprised editors allowed a lot of that to be published.

You can disagree with him but honestly if he says something non-opinion it’s true.
The dude is a board Yoda. I’ll take his side even if he doesn’t want me on it.

 

[SU in Hershey]

That kind of stuff goes on at every kind of college sports team at every level, men's and women's.

That's supposed to vindicate what happened?
Is the NCAA crooked or misguided (sure, yeah, it's all about the STUDENT-athlete--[sarcasm])? Of course they are. Have we been unfairly targeted, especially compared to other programs? Again, I would say yes.
But that does not make our program's transgressions okay, nor should it. If you say it does, I would argue that you are, at least vicariously, part of the problem.

 

[bpo57]

Every good business has succession planning. At some point a leader wants to give the keys to someone else to be successful. It seems Hopkins was setup to take over after years of being a understudy. I'm convinced that if BB did not end up at SU it would have played out as planned.

Many coaches can succeed in later years (Bill Snyder, Coach K, etc) but many have to be dragged of the court in a not so happy ending. The way this is trending JB is going to go down with BB. We won't even recruit a top 2G to come here, or none will coming here knowing the situation. Probably have to ride out 2 more years of so so seasons and then we can get a fresh face. Like what Louisville did, Alabama did, etc. we are a blue blood job could see Oats, Williard, Hurley, etc. JB will be almost 80 in 2 years and except for being a president of the US, seems way too old to connect with kids and have the energy needed.

If admin wants to keep in-house we know all the choices. It would keep the zone in place (which I am not sure is good or bad for recruiting kids)?

We need new blood. A new head coach whose results have shown that he is very likely to bring our program to a high level. It's going to cost a lot of money. Much more money than we ever paid JB. If we go with the keep it in the family approach that will be very disappointing. And be very likely to fail.

 

[CousCuse]

That's supposed to vindicate what happened?
Is the NCAA crooked or misguided (sure, yeah, it's all about the STUDENT-athlete--[sarcasm])? Of course they are. Have we been unfairly targeted, especially compared to other programs? Again, I would say yes.
But that does not make our program's transgressions okay, nor should it. If you say it does, I would argue that you are, at least vicariously, part of the problem.

They selectively punish programs. If they went through any program, they could find the same things to knock them down a level. The Big East and especially Syracuse were getting too big too fast and getting too much media and money, so other conferences who control the NCAA took action.

 

[pearl31]

You can disagree with him but honestly if he says something non-opinion it’s true.
The dude is a board Yoda. I’ll take his side even if he doesn’t want me on it.

I'm sure JB was dirty as they come in those days, along with about every other high level coach/program - vast majority of whom NEVER had to answer for any of it. I can only laugh at people still on their vindictive high horses now about JB and that era

 

[dasher]

They selectively punish programs. If they went through any program, they could find the same things to knock them down a level. The Big East and especially Syracuse were getting too big too fast and getting too much media and money, so other conferences who control the NCAA took action.

And what is your proof of this accusation? Other than your opinion. I don't believe that the NCAA were told by the mysterious powers that be to take down Syracuse. Were others doing things that they didn't get caught for, sure. But we weren't innocent. And there were a lot of things they just couldn't prove. I love Syracuse. And I have always been a jb fan. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass for life. No one does. It's a job. And at every place in this world, you have to do your job to keep it. No one can do the same job at 76 that they did at 40. If you lose a little bit off your fast ball, others aren't losing it off theirs. And the product on the court has shown this difference. We have a lot to offer recruits. We all agree on that. So, what are the star ratings of the kids we are getting now? Joe, Buddy, Marek, QG, A Griff,? QG is our highest rated player and he is our best player. The idea that griff can't possible play the 2 is ridiculous. We all know the reason for that statement. I don't like being the guy people are saying as the opposite to CR and Couscuse. I respect jb and the career he has had here as much as anyone. I am one of the few posters that was here BEFORE he was Head coach. I know what we were before and during. We just have a stale program. I will finish with this, does anyone playing us wonder what they will see with us? One of the worst things you can be to your opponent is predictable.

 

[br801]

Do you realize how much you sound like Paterno's defenders and apologists in the PSU fanbase--prior to him stepping down? He had his detractors but it was heresy for most to say anything negative against him. And of course, the "He should leave on his own terms" was a familiar refrain. NOBODY in the coaching profession is above reproach or above scrutiny. You are welcome to believe his life and career border on sainthood (figuratively speaking of course). While I believe everyone on this forum would celebrate what he has done and what he has meant to SU Basketball, the University, and CNY, I don't think most of us will tolerate a slow slide into irrelevance. He has long ago earned our respect and admiration, but he has not earned the right to return us to mediocrity, or worse...irrelevance.

I have no problem with people drawing parallels with Boeheim and other iconic college coaches who arguably stayed too long, and how they were defended by their fan bases and administrations, but I'm not comfortable with comparisons to what went down at Penn State with Paterno, as that was an horrific situation unto itself.

 

[SU in Hershey]

They selectively punish programs. If they went through any program, they could find the same things to knock them down a level. The Big East and especially Syracuse were getting too big too fast and getting too much media and money, so other conferences who control the NCAA took action.

Again, I'm not arguing the point that the NCAA is corrupt or conflicted. I agree, in general, with your statement. But wouldn't it be nice if the NCAA came around sniffing for violations and could find nothing? Wouldn't that enhance your pride in the program? I don't want Boeheim and his program to be lumped in with everyone else just because they're all guilty, too.

 

[CousCuse]

And what is your proof of this accusation? Other than your opinion. I don't believe that the NCAA were told by the mysterious powers that be to take down Syracuse. Were others doing things that they didn't get caught for, sure. But we weren't innocent. And there were a lot of things they just couldn't prove. I love Syracuse. And I have always been a jb fan. But that doesn't mean he gets a pass for life. No one does. It's a job. And at every place in this world, you have to do your job to keep it. No one can do the same job at 76 that they did at 40. If you lose a little bit off your fast ball, others aren't losing it off theirs. And the product on the court has shown this difference. We have a lot to offer recruits. We all agree on that. So, what are the star ratings of the kids we are getting now? Joe, Buddy, Marek, QG, A Griff,? QG is our highest rated player and he is our best player. The idea that griff can't possible play the 2 is ridiculous. We all know the reason for that statement. I don't like being the guy people are saying as the opposite to CR and Couscuse. I respect jb and the career he has had here as much as anyone. I am one of the few posters that was here BEFORE he was Head coach. I know what we were before and during. We just have a stale program. I will finish with this, does anyone playing us wonder what they will see with us? One of the worst things you can be to your opponent is predictable.

Proof is everywhere for those that want to see it.

 

[dasher]

Proof is everywhere for those that want to see it.

Provide it, Because that answer is more nonsense. When do the powers that be decide to take down Nova?

 

[SU in Hershey]

I have no problem with people drawing parallels with Boeheim and other iconic college coaches who arguably stayed too long, and how they were defended by their fan bases and administrations, but I'm not comfortable with comparisons to what went down at Penn State with Paterno, as that was an horrific situation unto itself.

I'm not trying to be a jerk when I say this, but I'm glad it makes you uncomfortable. It should. It makes me uncomfortable, too! But the point I was trying to make was that blindly defending someone with no accountability can lead to very bad outcomes. Also, the issues with Paterno that I am referring to, were occurring even before the scandal broke. Obviously it took on a much darker and horrid turn when those revelations came to light, but the defenders still pointed out all the many positives that he had done over the years as if that outweighed (I can't bring myself to say "justified") the brutality of the abuse that occurred.
To your point, maybe I shouldn't have stooped quite so low...

 

[CousCuse]

Provide it, Because that answer is more nonsense. When do the powers that be decide to take down Nova?

You have it out for Boeheim, so no proof will ever satisfy you. But, here are a couple of glaring inconsistencies: Cam Newton's father was paid $100,000, Cam didn't know so it was ok. UNC ran a shadow curriculum to allow athletes to do nonsense or no work, NCAA, no problem. The spreadsheets the FBI released re damning to a slew of programs, no repercussions. Penn State was aware at the highest of levels what was going on there, horrible stuff, slap in the wrist.

 

[Alsacs]

You have it out for Boeheim, so no proof will ever satisfy you. But, here are a couple of glaring inconsistencies: Cam Newton's father was paid $100,000, Cam didn't know so it was ok. UNC ran a shadow curriculum to allow athletes to do nonsense or no work, NCAA, no problem. The spreadsheets the FBI released re damning to a slew of programs, no repercussions. Penn State was aware at the highest of levels what was going on there, horrible stuff, slap in the wrist.

Couscuse this conjecture doesn’t deserve a response.

Anyone who disagrees with you has it out for JB. That is so childish.

I have defended you recently as an a idealist but your post goes beyond that.
We are Syracuse basketball fans.
We support the program.

I am sorry you can’t backup anything when asked too.

Just because other institutions cheated isn’t an excuse for when we had violations.
The justice system isn’t fair.
People with more resources don’t get treated the same as people with less.

It doesn’t mean crimes weren’t committed.