I'm going to Defend JB

[dasher]

I think some are missing the point. It’s not about an axe to grind or bringing up the past.. It’s just saying the idea that the fans of this program haven’t defended JB a ton thought the years, through multiple scandals, is nonsense. Everyone has had his back and stuck by him through the Fine mess, the two probations, players punching women, players accused of rape, etc etc. I would even agree that maybe most was B S. But regardless, we didn’t cut bait, so to suggest we aren’t loyal to him due to anyone suggesting the time is near for him to step down is crap.

This 1000x

 

[dasher]

He trusts the young men he brings into his program to behave and act as adults. He's not going to babysit them.

That is fine. But when those young men don't act as adults, he is responsible for not providing that guidance. He is the guy running the program. He brings these kids to the campus. If they don't act as adults, that is on both the kid and the coach. He can't say, and I hope you aren't saying, not my job, man.

 

[dasher]

eh not really unlucky as much as JB has made unfortunate enemies along the way that had the motive and means to get the hammer brought our way

The problem is that jb has run a loose program. And that has caused our problems. With a coach that has discipline in his program, none of this stuff happens and no one can get you.

 

[SU in Hershey]

That is fine. But when those young men don't act as adults, he is responsible for not providing that guidance. He is the guy running the program. He brings these kids to the campus. If they don't act as adults, that is on both the kid and the coach. He can't say, and I hope you aren't saying, not my job, man.

I don't know if you're the person to ask, but out of curiosity do you have any idea how many people are affiliated (as in employed specifically, or as a student volunteer/intern) with the program who are in charge of supervision of one type or another? Whether it's academic status, university compliance or NCAA compliance? The point being, it's not just JB's job to "babysit" as CuseRunner stated. He (JB) is ultimately responsible, as you stated, but it's not like he doesn't have staff/support to help in this regard.

 

[pearl31]

It’s always been amazing to me that the one man responsible for taking the program from just another ECAC to one of the premier national programs in college basketball doesn’t have the attention to detail for this sort of thing. ESPECIALLY after he got burned once.

Good lord. Do you think I’m trying to say he wasn’t culpable and fully aware if not actively involved in both situations? Come on.

A person has to be blissfully naive or willfully ignorant to assert those cases were simply a matter of JB’s loose ship. ESPECIALLY the second one.

Once again, and I am fully willing to criticize his current on-court product, the true axe-grinding colors are in full force around here.

 

[CousCuse]

I have it out for Boeheim. Have you read these boards for years? I have been the biggest jb supporter. But back to your response. None of those cases have anything to do with what we did back in the 1990's. First, none of those examples had happened yet. It isn't a defense to say that others did things worse than what you accuse us of so we should get a pass. Auburn and UNC should have been hammered. So what? This is about what happened under our coach. And none of what you cited says anything about powers that be ordering the NCAA to take us down. You can't make the truth a lie. And you can't make a lie the truth.

I have friends that went to Potsdam who told me hockey and basketball players had a "special" arrangement there. I know people from Colgate, back in their hockey hay day who said the same thing. Perks are always there for entertainers and athletes, it's the way of the world. People want to feel like they touched fame in some way,

 

[HOFCeluck]

Good lord. Do you think I’m trying to say he wasn’t culpable and fully aware if not actively involved in both situations? Come on.

A person has to be blissfully naive or willfully ignorant to assert those cases were simply a matter of JB’s loose ship. ESPECIALLY the second one.

Once again, and I am fully willing to criticize his current on-court product, the true axe-grinding colors are in full force around here.

I wasnt calling you out!

 

[pearl31]

The problem is that jb has run a loose program. And that has caused our problems. With a coach that has discipline in his program, none of this stuff happens and no one can get you.

That is a narrow, half-the-truth way to regard it, dash, and I think you know it.

 

[the villager]

Most people believe D1 basketball programs have a supply of Fed X envelopes . I guess we don’t even have any big man envelopes.

 

[shermstheman]

I think I’m the problem. I both love, love JB and am seriously concerned about the state of things.. it’s just not black and white. I feel that the ACC move really injured the program- we are an outlier, close to the North Pole and not attractive to recruits seeking better weather and all that comes with it. In the Big East we were, sort of, in the middle of it. The Big East was about us, the ACC forgets us. We could recruit against UConn and Georgetown. We can’t against Duke and UNC... so that’s not on JB. I don’t buy the age related stuff either, at least on the sidelines... (though our adjustments don’t seem to be as before but that may be because our players aren’t as good as before). Would Oats, Adrian, etc. do better?... be careful what you wish for but I’m at the point where the idea isn’t so upsetting... can we really be worse than mid level ACC with someone else? But... will we be better? Throw the dice?

 

[Alsacs]

I think I’m the problem. I both love, love JB and am seriously concerned about the state of things.. it’s just not black and white. I feel that the ACC move really injured the program- we are an outlier, close to the North Pole and not attractive to recruits seeking better weather and all that comes with it. In the Big East we were, sort of, in the middle of it. The Big East was about us, the ACC forgets us. We could recruit against UConn and Georgetown. We can’t against Duke and UNC... so that’s not on JB. I don’t buy the age related stuff either, at least on the sidelines... (though our adjustments don’t seem to be as before but that may be because our players aren’t as good as before). Would Oats, Adrian, etc. do better?... be careful what you wish for but I’m at the point where the idea isn’t so upsetting... can we really be worse than mid level ACC with someone else? But... will we be better? Throw the dice?

Our location isn’t a big issue.
Michigan, Wisconsin aren’t exactly Miami Florida.

Virginia is the current gold standard in the ACC not UNC or Duke.
Our coaching staff can and should do better.

 

[dasher]

That is a narrow, half-the-truth way to regard it, dash, and I think you know it.

No. It really isn't. And I hope you know it.

 

[DoctorBombay]

I think I’m the problem. I both love, love JB and am seriously concerned about the state of things.. it’s just not black and white. I feel that the ACC move really injured the program- we are an outlier, close to the North Pole and not attractive to recruits seeking better weather and all that comes with it. In the Big East we were, sort of, in the middle of it. The Big East was about us, the ACC forgets us. We could recruit against UConn and Georgetown. We can’t against Duke and UNC... so that’s not on JB. I don’t buy the age related stuff either, at least on the sidelines... (though our adjustments don’t seem to be as before but that may be because our players aren’t as good as before). Would Oats, Adrian, etc. do better?... be careful what you wish for but I’m at the point where the idea isn’t so upsetting... can we really be worse than mid level ACC with someone else? But... will we be better? Throw the dice?

I don't believe our situation in the ACC is nearly as dire as this post suggests. Our problems stem from the fact that our system has become stale, predictable, and rigid. Recruiting cratered after Hop, so first order of business should've been to bring in an ace recruiter when he left.
The program needs a breath of fresh air and this year is the first time I've sensed that JB may not be willing or capable of providing it.

 

[dasher]

I don't know if you're the person to ask, but out of curiosity do you have any idea how many people are affiliated (as in employed specifically, or as a student volunteer/intern) with the program who are in charge of supervision of one type or another? Whether it's academic status, university compliance or NCAA compliance? The point being, it's not just JB's job to "babysit" as CuseRunner stated. He (JB) is ultimately responsible, as you stated, but it's not like he doesn't have staff/support to help in this regard.

I did know that at one time but today I don't. But as the head of the program, it is JB's job to over see those people and know that they are doing their job. I'm not saying you are, but we can't excuse bad behavior on underlings without saying that one man, a man that earns a lot of money to do so, is responsible for what goes on in his program.

 

[pearl31]

No. It really isn't. And I hope you know it.

lol

 

[Bayside44]

Well, perhaps it’s because they were actually pretty minor infractions-
Especially compared to stuff going on at other programs.

And especially because we self-reported the second time, what were effectively the equivalent of unpaid parking tickets and not returning library books, and the NCAA then HAMMERED us.

... like they should have done to programs like:
Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Llvll, Arizona, LSU, etc.

UNC spend a lot of money punching back, we don't really do that. Rob Johnson obviously wasn't resourced to defend himself.

 

[rrlbees]

Whether someone thinks SU was hit too hard or too light in 1992 the facts show we certainly weren’t railroaded. Below is a pic of the summary report from the NCAA and also an article that goes through the b-ball related violations of the 42 found across several sports by the NCAA. Most were b-ball.

Syracuse basketball's NCAA violations include free meals, illegal contacts (from the archive)

The NCAA's infractions committee report cited at least 42 violations in Syracuse University's athletic program. Although no names are mentioned in the report, here's a list of the findings with the apparent people involved.

www.syracuse.com

 

[pearl31]

Yeah I think penalty wise, for what violations we committed in that 92 case, it was fine

 

[Madbiker]

Great posts Dasher. Sometimes people just don’t know when it’s time to go. You see it in sports, you see it in careers etc. I’ll be honest whether JB goes or stays until he’s 85, I’m not really sure I care. I’ve completely lost interest in the basketball program. Is it due to the pandemic, our atrocious style of play, our lack of exiting players, the cold winters I don’t know? All I know is my interest in Cuse hoops is at an all Time low. I find out what happened in the game by coming to the board. Haven’t watched a game all year. Probably won’t either. People say he’s earned the right to leave when he wants too, maybe so, however you might witness the program going into the absolute abyss that will take a decade to get out of.

SU basketball is what used to get us through the cold winters. The highly ranked teams with great exciting players. The bitter rivalry games in a packed Dome with 30,000+. The energy, the excitement. Looking forward to huge games all week before they happened. Worrying about getting a top 3 seed in the NCAAT, which made every game important. Now... we are bubble team every damn year. Some years we don't make the 68 team field. Unthinkable a few years ago. We have double digit losses every damn year. Many years we have no big game because we aren't ranked, aren't close to winning the ACC. It's not just a bad year or two.It's become every year. Which is signalling some changes are needed.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

I have friends that went to Potsdam who told me hockey and basketball players had a "special" arrangement there. I know people from Colgate, back in their hockey hay day who said the same thing. Perks are always there for entertainers and athletes, it's the way of the world. People want to feel like they touched fame in some way,

I'd love to hear what extra perks SUNY Potsdam is getting away with. Two fish fillets instead of one at team dinners? Free ice scrapers for their windshields? Larger igloos?

 

[Cuse1055]

SU basketball is what used to get us through the cold winters. The highly ranked teams with great exciting players. The bitter rivalry games in a packed Dome with 30,000+. The energy, the excitement. Looking forward to huge games all week before they happened. Worrying about getting a top 3 seed in the NCAAT, which made every game important. Now... we are bubble team every damn year. Some years we don't make the 68 team field. Unthinkable a few years ago. We have double digit losses every damn year. Many years we have no big game because we aren't ranked, aren't close to winning the ACC. It's not just a bad year or two.It's become every year. Which is signalling some changes are needed.

Spot on. Great post. My feelings exactly.

 

[pearl31]

I will finish with this, does anyone playing us wonder what they will see with us? One of the worst things you can be to your opponent is predictable.

And I think this is somewhat disingenuous, too. You can say this (being predictable) about any number of teams with a young guy as coach. And also the 2011-12 and 2012-13 teams of ours, for example, were exactly as our teams our now in terms of 100% zone and general approach to offense, i.e. PREDICTABLE, and we dominated everyone.
It's all about the 5 you can trot out on the floor, and how you sprinkle in the others from the bench. It's personnel. That -- with recruiting as well as using his bench -- is where JB has slipped.

 

[CuseRunner]

Whether someone thinks SU was hit too hard or too light in 1992 the facts show we certainly weren’t railroaded. Below is a pic of the summary report from the NCAA and also an article that goes through the b-ball related violations of the 42 found across several sports by the NCAA. Most were b-ball.

View attachment 195708

Syracuse basketball's NCAA violations include free meals, illegal contacts (from the archive)

The NCAA's infractions committee report cited at least 42 violations in Syracuse University's athletic program. Although no names are mentioned in the report, here's a list of the findings with the apparent people involved.

www.syracuse.com

Ooh Please Bees. This stuff has been happening before and since. Did anything ever happen to Anthony Davis and Kentucky or Zion and Duke. I could go on and on.

We got railroaded by the sensitive local media who ran to the NCAA. I LOVE LOVE WHEN JB GETS TO PAY THEM BACK WHEN THEY EARN IT AND CALL THEM OUT IN PRESS CONFERENCES FOR DUMB QUESTIONS OR STIRRING THE POT ARTICLES. GOOD FOR JB TO GET THEM BACK.

 

[OrangeDW]

Ooh Please Bees. This stuff has been happening before and since. Did anything ever happen to Anthony Davis and Kentucky or Zion and Duke. I could go on and on.

We got railroaded by the sensitive local media who ran to the NCAA. I LOVE LOVE WHEN JB GETS TO PAY THEM BACK WHEN THEY EARN IT AND CALL THEM OUT IN PRESS CONFERENCES FOR DUMB QUESTIONS OR STIRRING THE POT ARTICLES. GOOD FOR JB TO GET THEM BACK.

Why are you shouting?

 

[bozophobe]

Is this a joke? Don’t remember it.

It was a reference to this-
Phoned in scores only when they won