I'm so burnt out on SU football

[Alsacs]

when the coach leaves in early january tough to go full on search at that point with nsd 1 month away

We hired Shafer really quickly after Marrone left. We didn't really have a long search. Gross I guess had a choice between Shafer and Hackett and chose Shafer.

 

[Chip]

when the coach leaves in early january tough to go full on search at that point with nsd 1 month away

So we solved a short term problem by creating a long term problem.

Maybe we should have just Luke Fickell'd him.

We all wanted it to work out. It didn't. And now that I'm in hindsight mode, it's not really hard to take an honest look and say it was a long shot from the start.

 

[NKR1978]

We hired Shafer really quickly after Marrone left. We didn't really have a long search. Gross I guess had a choice between Shafer and Hackett and chose Shafer.

Realistically I don't know that it's possible to do a national search at that point. We saw what our options were late in the game with Gerg and that was only in December.

 

[Bayside44]

Realistically I don't know that it's possible to do a national search at that point. We saw what our options were late in the game with Gerg and that was only in December.

Losing Hackett really hurt.

 

[Alsacs]

Realistically I don't know that it's possible to do a national search at that point. We saw what our options were late in the game with Gerg and that was only in December.

I mentioned Chad Morris, Tom Herman, Randy Edsall, and Bob Diaco(thank
God no) when Marrone left.
We went cheap and it hurt us.
I am just glad we have Dino now.

 

[NKR1978]

Losing Hackett really hurt.

I thought he was high risk/high reward. I wonder if Scott would have stayed if Hackett was hired over him.

 

[NKR1978]

I mentioned Chad Morris, Tom Herman, Randy Edsall, and Bob Diaco(thank
God no) when Marrone left.
We went cheap and it hurt us.
I am just glad we have Dino now.

I just don't think you have time to do a national search that late in the game.

 

[Alsacs]

I just don't think you have time to do a national search that late in the game.

Anderson left Wisconsin in mid-December and Wisconsin hired Chryst from
Pitt.
Coaches leave late all the time and don't always hire internally.
We didn't really try a national search. We decided between coordinators neither
of which had HC experience or were being pursued by any other team as a HC.

Gross botched the post Marrone departure.

 

[SUfaninAZ]

I haven't read this entire thread... but being a Syracuse football fan is for the loyal diehard Cuse fan. It totally used to ruin my Saturdays. Now I know what to accept and move on with another sunny day in AZ.

 

[dasher]

so you're already burned out next year too?

I didn't say I was burned out.

 

[longislandcuse]

We desperately needed to not have that LSU game next year.

It's one thing to be burnt out over this year and the previous decade (which I am). It's quite another to also have zero hope for next year..

 

[OrangeDW]

We desperately needed to not have that LSU game next year.

It's one thing to be burnt out over this year and the previous decade (which I am). It's quite another to also have zero hope for next year..

Our scheduling is classic meathead stuff. We don't play meathead ball. Stop beating our heads against a wall when we don't have to. We're not in the Big East anymore.

 

[bcubs9497]

IF you think we kept it fairly close last year to Clemson and LSU your nuts. The lead in those games were never in doubt and they were toying with us.

And just because you say the Tampa 2 sucks over and over you have NOTHING to back it up!

It sucks. Sorry. Believe it, don't believe it, I really don't care.

 

[upperdeck]

how much are we really playing Tampa 2 though? its not half the time.

 

[TheCusian]

We're averaging less points total despite increased pace and less points per possession than last year. Pretty crucial statistics that correlate to wins and losses. Those are facts and not argument. If we don't have a monster offensive game vs. Pittsburgh next week we will finish at or near the bottom of P5 programs offensively and worse than last year under Lester.

The inability for some to see this and the continuation of the premise that the offense is fine but for a missing QB is why I continue to remind of how bad we actually have been this year despite the window dressing of increased pace of play.

Sorry it took so long to reply.

Here's what I got for you:

- While stats are facts, you and I both know that the interpretation of those stats can be bent in whichever way you want
- Prior to Dungey going down our points per game were on par with Lester's year once you remove special teams, OT, and defensive scores
- This system requires a better passer than Lester's. So the drop off between Dungey and Mahoney is far greater (We're getting the same Mahoney, with less running - his strength)
- Points per Possession means less when you get more of them. You can say "man, we have a lot of empty possessions" - but when you get an extra 6 a game, you can afford it against most opposition. It's the same space that will work for us when the offense starts really working (which we've seen glimpses).
- You don't need to remind people here. We know it's not running at full force. We've done a lot without being able to run the ball at all. This idea that you're the only one who sees this and are some kind of lone force of reality is not at all true. It's semi-offensive.
- What you're not getting is that Babers runs a system. And he's running it this year without players suited for it or ready for it (RB/OL specifically). It would be like JAB coaching at a mid-major in year one. Guys with short arms and less athleticism playing the zone wouldn't give anyone the idea of what it could look like with the right type of player. They might be worse on defense with a HoF coach for a while (until they get it and/or get the right guys). This is in play here with both offense and defense.

- And finally - you're using the wrong measuring stick. This is why your are wrong: Perception. It does not matter that you're a "we suck on offense" evangelist shouting in the wind. What we need most is an identity and the perception that we're headed in the right direction. And that is what this year has accomplished. Locker room speech goes viral (check), Biletnekoff finalist ACC 1st team maybe (check), Countless mentions of our QB in the same breath as Watson from Clemson (check), Key win vs a top 25 team (check), best recruiting class since 2001 (check).

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

It sucks. Sorry. Believe it, don't believe it, I really don't care.

So your position is "My opinion is correct in my mind, and I won't listen to anyone else's viewpoints, even if they raise good points. And screw you for not seeing it my way."

If that doesn't sum up discourse on the internet nowadays (regardless of political party), I don't know what does.

 

[JeremyCuse]

The problem is that there is always another shoe to drop with this program. Nothing ever comes smooth and were never allowed to have nice things. Dungey hurt, Dome renovation taking forever, OOC scheduling like were Alabama, decisions from the admin that seem to always negatively affect the few diehards left etc etc. This year is the perfect point, what other schools staring at a 4-8 season with a first year coach have to worry about him being poached. It get's a little harder every year to watch the same movie/script play our year after year after year

 

[rrlbees]

The problem is that there is always another shoe to drop with this program. Nothing ever comes smooth and were never allowed to have nice things. Dungey hurt, Dome renovation taking forever, OOC scheduling like were Alabama, decisions from the admin that seem to always negatively affect the few diehards left etc etc. This year is the perfect point, what other schools staring at a 4-8 season with a first year coach have to worry about him being poached. It get's a little harder every year to watch the same movie/script play our year after year after year

And through all that the fine lot tailgate continues to grow year after year.

 

[Stern]

So your position is "My opinion is correct in my mind, and I won't listen to anyone else's viewpoints, even if they raise good points. And screw you for not seeing it my way."

If that doesn't sum up discourse on the internet nowadays (regardless of political party), I don't know what does.

He is happy in his "bubble" don't ruin it for him...lol

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Sorry it took so long to reply.

Here's what I got for you:

- While stats are facts, you and I both know that the interpretation of those stats can be bent in whichever way you want
- Prior to Dungey going down our points per game were on par with Lester's year once you remove special teams, OT, and defensive scores
- This system requires a better passer than Lester's. So the drop off between Dungey and Mahoney is far greater (We're getting the same Mahoney, with less running - his strength)
- Points per Possession means less when you get more of them. You can say "man, we have a lot of empty possessions" - but when you get an extra 6 a game, you can afford it against most opposition. It's the same space that will work for us when the offense starts really working (which we've seen glimpses).
- You don't need to remind people here. We know it's not running at full force. We've done a lot without being able to run the ball at all. This idea that you're the only one who sees this and are some kind of lone force of reality is not at all true. It's semi-offensive.
- What you're not getting is that Babers runs a system. And he's running it this year without players suited for it or ready for it (RB/OL specifically). It would be like JAB coaching at a mid-major in year one. Guys with short arms and less athleticism playing the zone wouldn't give anyone the idea of what it could look like with the right type of player. They might be worse on defense with a HoF coach for a while (until they get it and/or get the right guys). This is in play here with both offense and defense.

- And finally - you're using the wrong measuring stick. This is why your are wrong: Perception. It does not matter that you're a "we suck on offense" evangelist shouting in the wind. What we need most is an identity and the perception that we're headed in the right direction. And that is what this year has accomplished. Locker room speech goes viral (check), Biletnekoff finalist ACC 1st team maybe (check), Countless mentions of our QB in the same breath as Watson from Clemson (check), Key win vs a top 25 team (check), best recruiting class since 2001 (check).

I haven't commented at all about the direction of the program and what it will look like next year or in 4 years. I have only stated that the offense has been a statistical disaster this year despite the window dressing of pace of play. That is an factual statement and I don't have to manipulate/cherry pick statistics to prove the same. If you wanna argue that this year's offense is better than last year's offense (not in theory, talking about actual results) I don't think you can make a good case but it is an arguable point.

We are averaging 22.45 points which is 112th in FBS football and the bottom of the barrel for P5 schools and that's at an accelerated pace. From a points per possession basis (adjusting for the 29th toughest schedule to date) we are averaging 1.60 ppp which is 102nd in FBS football. Last year we had the 16th toughest schedule at the end of the season and we averaged and adjusted ppp of 2.13 which was 57th in FBS football. At a much slower pace we still averaged 27.25 points per game in 2015. These specific statistics matter on offense. They are not made up. They remove fandom, emotion and the eye test and give you an objective basis as to where we stand against our own past and more importantly against our peers. I could go on and on with plenty of advanced metrics to prove the depth of my point but it would be like kicking a dead horse at this point.

I fully understand that HCDB needs time to fully implement his system. I am behind that as I believe this program needs consistency in the AD and the staff much more than we have had over the past 15 years. While I don't agree that a faster pace with lesser athletes is a definitive recipe for success I don't mind giving it a try after so many abysmal seasons. Why the hell not? I'll be there to see if the experiment works. It just didn't this year.

And I'm not just an internet fan, I back up my fandom with time, attendance and money and everyone who knows me knows this as I where it on my sleeve. What I don't get from the most fervent backers of HCDB and his offensive scheme is an inability to see that this year it didn't work and to be able to critically analyze that failure. Instead, they lash out and say you're not a real fan and to and just attack. You're not one of them as you can have actual constructive discourse which I actually appreciate reading and responding.

Anyway, here's to better days moving forward with the football program and for the always nice transition to hoops season moving forward.

 

[bcubs9497]

So your position is "My opinion is correct in my mind, and I won't listen to anyone else's viewpoints, even if they raise good points. And screw you for not seeing it my way."

If that doesn't sum up discourse on the internet nowadays (regardless of political party), I don't know what does.

Yes. Because, as I've mentioned, and as has been determined elsewhere, there's not a consistently winning P5 college team out there that implements the Tampa 2.

 

[chugg21]

I haven't read this entire thread... but being a Syracuse football fan is for the loyal diehard Cuse fan. It totally used to ruin my Saturdays. Now I know what to accept and move on with another sunny day in AZ.

Do the same in San Diego. Used to get riled up and spike tv controls but now I'm in reality and during these Dungey-less games against far more talented teams, I watch the offense for about a half and then turn it off and move on with my day.

 

[GoSU96]

Injuries are THE primary reason for a struggles this season. You mentioned the solution in your post as well -- we have zero depth. We are not Bama, Ohio State, or even Pitt at this point. We are missing our starting QB (Dungey), WR (Ish), C (Emerich), G (Palmer), DT (Clark), S (Cordy), CB (Dowels). We are also missing our back up center (Byrne), rotational DE (Pickard), and rotational WR (Butler).

For a program like Syracuse, that's just too much to overcome. Look at how miserable Michigan looked against Indiana when they had to start O'Korn. He could barely move the ball.

I agree with you that the primary issue is the lack of size the previous staff decided to bring into the program. Some of these kids are tough as nails, but at some point the bigger body is going to win out -- there's a reason fighting has weight classes.

I wouldn't be upset if Dino went scorched earth like Marrone before him and told a bunch of kids to move on. We ar most likely going to have to bring in a group of JUCOs and grad transfers to help smooth this ride out a bit. It is evident to me we have a bunch of players that just don't belong playing p5 football.

I think we are going to have to go out and grab a JUCO or grad transfer at RT, TE, DL, S, and QB. Those are glaring holes on our roster right now.

On a positive note, I really like what I am seeing from some of these young guys out there. I think Black and Coleman are going to be contributors for a long time. I really like what I saw from Andrew Armstrong yesterday. He is extremely explosive and was a steal for us last year (was a d1 baseball prospect and hell of a basketball player too). I think a lot of these young guys at OL are really going to benefit from getting beat up a bit this season. Love what I have seen from Conway, Roberts, and Byrne.

The core of the program is fine. More depth and like you said some older guys to fill gaps on the roster and provide some class balance.

Two deep on both lines was extremely young and the investment will pay dividends. Same with the back end on defense.

 

[MadNY3]

Yes. Because, as I've mentioned, and as has been determined elsewhere, there's not a consistently winning P5 college team out there that implements the Tampa 2.

There aren't too many programs that run an offense like Syracuse's either. Innovation happens.

 

[bcubs9497]

There aren't too many programs that run an offense like Syracuse's either. Innovation happens.

Here's a clue-bat for ya; Baylor does NOT run a Tampa 2. Houston doesn't run a Tampa 2. No decent defense in the P5 runs a Tampa 2.