important to remember where shafer left us on defense

[SoBristol]

Lack of depth, lack of deep recruiting classes - right there is the problem. Babers said his 1s were good - those were Shafer's guys with few exceptions. Babers filled in with grads and jucos to help this group be competitive. We will have to judge his own regular recruits beginning in 2018.

But if you fault what Shafer's left, you might consider what Babers left at BGSU. Slightly different (only two cycles) but his successor has posted 4-8 and 2-9 with the cupboard left to him. Babers' fault?

 

[Domedog84]

Ancient history -- when Coach Mac left for the Pats, Pasqualone (DC) was picked as HC and DeLeone (OC) stuck around. But situations differ -- Marrone wanted Hackett as his OC in Buffalo, offered a big salary, and why wouldn't Hackett want the opportunity?
Then, consider -- Shafer likely wasn't expecting all this to happen, and it was late December. Had to hold recruits, keep recruiting, and build his staff. Made some good decisions with his staff (Lester as QB coach, Bullough as DC) and some bad (McDonald as OC, Perles as OL coach). Doubt the selection of McDonald was "in mind the whole time" -- he needed an experienced OC, probably had limited options, made a bad hiring decision.

I thought Perles was fine, wasn't it Adams as his replacement that sucked?

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Shafer’s first recruiting class has gone thru this year.
We had 8 players good/great come through it.
Ishmael
Philips
Murphy
Franklin
P. Thomas
Bennett
McGlosker

Walkon 8th guy
Mahoney

Shafer hit on these guys and left some good Juniors but the depth isn’t there and that is the problem. When the drop from first guy to second guy is so large you get problems.

Shafer’s classes weren’t deep enough with ACC quality players. Heck Babers had to gently tell a lot of 2016 verbals to look elsewhere.

I should have specified that I was referring to the secondary.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Lack of depth, lack of deep recruiting classes - right there is the problem. Babers said his 1s were good - those were Shafer's guys with few exceptions. Babers filled in with grads and jucos to help this group be competitive. We will have to judge his own regular recruits beginning in 2018.

But if you fault what Shafer's left, you might consider what Babers left at BGSU. Slightly different (only two cycles) but his successor has posted 4-8 and 2-9 with the cupboard left to him. Babers' fault?

Why would we care how things were left at BGSU? That doesn't tell us anything about the talent Babers brought to Syracuse.

 

[Alsacs]

I should have specified that I was referring to the secondary.

I agree completely and my point was 8 Seniors isn’t enough.
Shafer whiffed on a lot.
That is why the depth is so low across the board and non existent is certain areas.

 

[nzm136]

Another reason why Shafer wasn't ever going to get us where we needed to be - his coaching circle wasn't talented enough.

That's true. I honestly think that he was far better than history remembers him. His assistants were just terrible, which made him look much worse.

But what was he supposed to do? He got hired late, so he had to hire guys from his circle. Then we went to a bowl in year 1. He couldn't fire them after that performance. Then to his credit after year 2, he got rid of McD and hired Lester, who only had a half season to install his offense before fHCSS was fired.

He was a good guy who is probably a decent coach. He was just unlucky.

 

[Trueblue25]

chubbs, ferrel, landry, jackson, key, wilkins, james.

All players we played that could easily be top 10 draft picks depending on order

 

[OttoinGrotto]

That's true. I honestly think that he was far better than history remembers him. His assistants were just terrible, which made him look much worse.

But what was he supposed to do? He got hired late, so he had to hire guys from his circle. Then we went to a bowl in year 1. He couldn't fire them after that performance. Then to his credit after year 2, he got rid of McD and hired Lester, who only had a half season to install his offense before fHCSS was fired.

He was a good guy who is probably a decent coach. He was just unlucky.

I know there are a lot of people that liked Lester, but him being named the full time OC was a problem.

 

[Orangepace]

I want everyone to just sit and rethink the unprecedented amount of 1st round talent we faced this year. Heisman candidates and top 15 picks galore.

Then think about how much of that talent we faced on the road.

Then think about how much NFL talent we inherited from HCSS despite Dino’s ability to turn WR’s into draft prospects.

Then realize we played all these absurd teams in a gauntlet like fashion then got spit out into the “soft winnable” part of our schedule vs BC and Wake.

The more and more I think about it. The more and more it comes as zero surprise that we were blown out our last two games.

One other thing that people are severely discounting for Babers, but not others is (AGAIN) that we lost our QB1 for those final 3 games. Why do I beat this drum again?

• Florida St - Nobody thought SU had a chance against Florida St until Francois went down. FSU's record without Francois was 5-5. Florida St finished 5-6 overall and Jimbo Fisher may be the highest paid head coach in NCAA next season.
• Oregon - QB1 Justin Herbert was injured during the year. Oregon w/ Herbert was 6-1. Oregon w/o Herbert was 1-4. Taggart just inked a new deal today giving him a raise after he finished 7-5 on the season.

Just wanted to point out that teams with much higher caliber backup QB's than a walkon have difficulties winning games as well.

 

[TheCusian]

This conversation ends at:

Shafer’s SoS: 40 something
Babers SoS: 6.5

How do you evaluate them with this gap?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This conversation ends at:

Shafer’s SoS: 40 something
Babers SoS: 6.5

How do you evaluate them with this gap?

You cain't.

BABERS RULES SHAFER DROOLS

 

[Millhouse]

This conversation ends at:

Shafer’s SoS: 40 something
Babers SoS: 6.5

How do you evaluate them with this gap?

college football reference SRS is weighted by SOS

0 is average, each of these ratings is point differential above or below average

the schedule was definitely hard this year but lots of teams could take the field against wake, louisville, and BC and give up a zillion yards - i don't want to give them too much credit for getting embarrassed by pretty good teams in november

2017 2.35
2016 -4.51
2015 -1.51
2014 -4.84
2013 2.81

 

[Millhouse]

some notable years that this year's SRS beat
1994 7-4
1993 6-4-1
2010 8-5
2004 6-6

just going by SRS, babers is off to a better 2 year start than marrone (I know, pinstripe bowls are more fun than SRS math)

 

[OttoinGrotto]

just going by SRS, babers is off to a better 2 year start than marrone

YOU TAKE YOUR WHORE MOUTH AND SHUT IT

 

[Trueblue25]

YOU TAKE YOUR WHORE MOUTH AND SHUT IT

I tried to be cordial in this thread but I love where he’s going.


Two rules gentlemen, nothing below the belt and no touching of the hair.

 

[GoSU96]

I know there are a lot of people that liked Lester, but him being named the full time OC was a problem.

The destruction wrought by Eggs MacDonald was the problem.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The destruction wrought by Eggs MacDonald was the problem.

Well sure. But Shafer didn't fix the problem to the extent that was needed. I don't think he would have been able to. He wanted to watch his defense on the field.

 

[nzm136]

Well sure. But Shafer didn't fix the problem to the extent that was needed. I don't think he would have been able to. He wanted to watch his defense on the field.

I actually think that Lester was a very solid (and underrated) OC.

And for context, I hated the promotion when it happened, but he changed my mind.

 

[Alsacs]

I actually think that Lester was a very solid (and underrated) OC.

And for context, I hated the promotion when it happened, but he changed my mind.

I thought the 2015 offense was average and that we improved from flat out to pathetic in 2014 to average in 2015 made it look better.

Lester wasn’t bad but his system wasn’t something proven yet.

 

[nzm136]

I thought the 2015 offense was average and that we improved from flat out to pathetic in 2014 to average in 2015 made it look better.

Lester wasn’t bad but his system wasn’t something proven yet.

That's just it ... moving from terrible to average as quickly as he did was impressive.

He gets knocked because the O wasn't 'good,' but that's not a realistic expectation for any coach (given the circumstances).

 

[TheCusian]

That's just it ... moving from terrible to average as quickly as he did was impressive.

They recruited and identified Dungey early and got him ready. The year before was AJ Long and other dudes ™

 

[Alsacs]

That's just it ... moving from terrible to average as quickly as he did was impressive.

He gets knocked because the O wasn't 'good,' but that's not a realistic expectation for any coach (given the circumstances).

Not really it’s more of an indictment of how bad we were in 2014.
The performance at Pitt 2014 was a pathetic after a bye week.
That Pitt D in 2014 was dumpster fire bad and our team made them look really good.

2015 was decent it wasn’t proven that it would work at Syracuse.
Scott Shafer wasn’t a HC. Syracuse got what it paid for when SS was given the keys as the coach.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Do you look at SoS? *Who* you play matters. The ACC Atlantic has morphed into the best division in CFB. When we were in the Big East it was fringe "P6"

Yes I did. Shafer's D was much better statistically in Year 1 and 2 of his tenure than Babers. I had said I would post the adjusted ppp (which accounts for SOS) in this thread but didn't want it to get buried as I believe it is very interesting and have posted it in its own thread for discussion. The adjusted PPP have SOS built in. I can say the defense was better this year and their was progress on both sides of the ball but in order to get into the world of bowl games both units need to get much better.

Not a knock on Babers, just a reality of where the program stands. I am hopeful Babers can keep trending up moving forward.

 

[Millhouse]

The destruction wrought by Eggs MacDonald was the problem.

there's only one nickname for george mcfkit and it's george mcfkit

 

[NKR1978]

Shafer lost his mind 5 minutes into his first game.

I remember being at Met Life and watching the complete disorganization on the sideline. Scott had me until ISIS, but the signs were present immediately.