important to remember where shafer left us on defense

[anomander]

Pretty good for a boatload of mid-level 3* recruits.

UCF also competes against mid-level 3* and below. It's not surprising they are doing this well

 

[orange_in_VA]

He certainly did not deserve another year. Everybody with at least 1 eye could see where that was heading. It was obvious that he didn't have the chops to cut it as a HC. Giving him another year would just have been prolonging the inevitable.

And I disagree. I fully believe that Shafer would have had this team bowling last year and everyone would have forgotten about his recorded emotional episodes. In any event, he's no longer here so it's a moot point, but I'm not one to say that it was "obvious" that he couldn't be a successful HC.

As I've also said before, I'm glad we have Babers and I will continue to have hope that he can turn things around. I'm sick of seeing a new coach every 4 years. He really needs to make a bowl next year though

 

[Cheriehoop]

Come on that Villanova kid missed a 25 yarder. He was a terrible head coach.

Gross hired him for "continuity," and I am pretty sure Gross does not know what word means.

I agree about SS being a continuity hire but it certainly wasn’t continuity when Marrone took most of the assistant coaches with him, some despite assurances he wouldn’t. Sure seemed to me at least, Marrone underminded Shafer and SU, not wanting him to be his successor here and had his own favorite.

 

[Bayside44]

I agree about SS being a continuity hire but it certainly wasn’t continuity when Marrone took most of the assistant coaches with him, some despite assurances he wouldn’t. Sure seemed to me at least, Marrone underminded Shafer and SU, not wanting him to be his successor here and had his favorite.

Good point and don’t really want to relive it all, but Shafer seemed to have his own ideas in place to play a different system with his guys. I am more than comfortable blaming Gross for this, that interview must’ve been a hoot

 

[Bayside44]

And I disagree. I fully believe that Shafer would have had this team bowling last year and everyone would have forgotten about his recorded emotional episodes. In any event, he's no longer here so it's a moot point, but I'm not one to say that it was "obvious" that he couldn't be a successful HC.

As I've also said before, I'm glad we have Babers and I will continue to have hope that he can turn things around. I'm sick of seeing a new coach every 4 years. He really needs to make a bowl next year though

How in the word was Shafer getting to 6 wins?

 

[Chip]

I agree about SS being a continuity hire but it certainly wasn’t continuity when Marrone took most of the assistant coaches with him, some despite assurances he wouldn’t. Sure seemed to me at least, Marrone underminded Shafer and SU, not wanting him to be his successor here and had his favorite.

I don't know the whole story on that (other than how annoyed I was, along with the rest of you fine people ), but I wonder how much of it was flawed logic. I mean, if you make Shafer and Hackett the finalists, and you pick Shafer, is Hackett really going to stick around? I would guess he was begging Marrone to go with him. Same with Anselmo, he seemed like a Marrone guy all the way. I don't know about the rest of them, but those were 2 key pieces that left.

For all we know, Shafer had McDonald in mind the whole time anyway and knew the only way he could get him was an OC role.

I'm guessing the Jags didn't give Marrone an out clause, but maybe they gave him a book deal? One can hope.

 

[djorange1989]

How in the word was Shafer getting to 6 wins?

By being hard nosed and by locking the Dome , silly

 

[orangehomer]

Pretty good for a boatload of mid-level 3* recruits.

UCF had two games on the schedule against P5 opponents. they beat a terrible Maryland team, and had a game against Ga. Tech cancelled. then they beat up on the little sisters of the poor in the AAC. do you think that is remotely similar to the schedule that SU faced this year? what do you think dungey would do to a steady diet of AAC defenses instead of ACC?

 

[bcubs9497]

UCF had two games on the schedule against P5 opponents. they beat a terrible Maryland team, and had a game against Ga. Tech cancelled. then they beat up on the little sisters of the poor in the AAC. do you think that is remotely similar to the schedule that SU faced this year? what do you think dungey would do to a steady diet of AAC defenses instead of ACC?

Dungey, Culpepper, or TD would be fine, it's the "other" side...

 

[CuseOnly]

Shafer kept games close?

This took 3 minutes to calculate...

In the Shafer era we had 10 games (out of 37) that were decided by 9 points or less. We won 5 of those.

In the Babers era we have had 9 games (out of 24) that were decided by 9 points or less. We've won 4 of those.

Shafer kept 27% of his games close, while Babers has kept 38% of his games close.

So Baber's approach has literally kept significantly more games close than Shafer's.

And FWIW, the average loss under Shafer was by 18.9 points. Under Babers it has been 21.2 points. Shafer had 3 losses by more than 30 points, and Babers has had 4.

So yeah, Babers approach leads to closer games and roughly 0.33 more super-blowout losses per year than Shafer.

Damning.

Consider that Dino has also had to face the #8 and #5 SoS respectively for the past 2 years, I would think those numbers are pretty eye opening how much better Babers has done than FHCSS.

 

[Scooch]

Consider that Dino has also had to face the #8 and #5 SoS respectively for the past 2 years, I would think those numbers are pretty eye opening how much better Babers has done than FHCSS.

Agree.

I just couldn’t let that narrative go unchecked.

 

[CousCuse]

Consider that Dino has also had to face the #8 and #5 SoS respectively for the past 2 years, I would think those numbers are pretty eye opening how much better Babers has done than FHCSS.

What are you talking about, Shafer faced the same schedule.

 

[Bayside44]

What are you talking about, Shafer faced the same schedule.

This is insufferable. You realize - or I guess a bunch of folks don't - that the NCSU and Wake and BC teams rolled out in 2013 aren't the same teams they put out today.

Heck, even Pitt in a down year for them beat a top 4 Miami.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

By being hard nosed and by locking the Dome , silly

And cursing a lot as well as playing for the love of the game. Shafer should be a D3 HC or stay where he is

 

[Orangepace]

I don't think it's supposed to be a we want Shafer back or Dino to go kind of thing. What Orange_in_VA and I are trying to do is open up some eyes. People are still blinded by the Clemson win, but we got freaking rocked at home against BC. Wake scored 35 points on us in a half. This defense is bad. People are making excuses. Do I see flashes? Sure, so did Grob apparently. We played some close games, lucky us. At the end of the day, we got beat by MTSU and both of our supposed 'peer' teams. I'm laughing at the guys saying yup, Addazio got it rolling after 6 years! These are the same guys at the beginning of the year who thought BC would be hiring right now and had that game penciled as a sure win.

My eyes are wide open, just not entirely in sync with the way you see things. Nobody here is happy with the way things finished up. After the Clemson game, we all changed our original expectations. Let’s not forget that at the beginning of the season, many expected Syracuse to Win 4-5 games with an outside shot of 6 given the schedule, the lack of depth and the injury history of the QB1. The only real difference between the expectations then and now is that the makeup of those wins caused us all to raise the bar on Dino mid season , which wasn’t exactly fair.

People aren’t blinded by beating Clemson. This wasn’t Buster Douglas over Tyson. This wasn’t a game that Clemson lost, it was a game SU won, toe-to-toe.

It’s obvious that the system can work. It’s highly unusual for a team to win multiple games as a 20+ pt underdog in back-to-back years. Using the CFP rankings as of today, with a healthy serviceable QB1, Babers guided the team to a win against #1 and losses by one score against #7, #17 and #24. All three of those losses on the road. Being competitive in those types of games is playing big time football.

Stop using Shafer in comparison arguments with Dino. It’s like arguing apples and oranges. Shafer didn’t “inherit” recruits. He was a big part of the decision making process for recruiting the 4 years before he took the helm. He knew what he had.

Shafer also didn’t have the ability to show the poise and control necessary to lead. Need evidence? Case #1: Yelling obscenities at Dabo for running up the score in the 1st half. Case #2: The handling of the McF*ckIt situation. There were several other instances as well. The wheels came off and we were left to watch the program spiraling out of control. Dino has shown the poise and demonstrated he has control over the program. If your argument was that we are all blinded by Dino’s composure, you may be onto something given what came before him. But I still think you’re missing the forest for the trees.

 

[CousCuse]

This is insufferable. You realize - or I guess a bunch of folks don't - that the NCSU and Wake and BC teams rolled out in 2013 aren't the same teams they put out today.

Heck, even Pitt in a down year for them beat a top 4 Miami.

FSU, LSU and Clemson with a injured QB were all weaker and Brisset is a better QB than NCSU has now. I think back to the 2013 Notre Dame game in the Meadowlands, the one where a TD was taken off the board at the end of the first half , for no reason. That game, SS employed a Tampa2 defense which kept the it within 1 score in the fourth quarter. Well all everyone here did was cry and scream like children about what an idiot he was for doing that, and now DB uses that D and it's enlightened. You want it every which way on this issue.

 

[SoBristol]

... I mean, if you make Shafer and Hackett the finalists, and you pick Shafer, is Hackett really going to stick around? I would guess he was begging Marrone to go with him. Same with Anselmo, he seemed like a Marrone guy ...

For all we know, Shafer had McDonald in mind the whole time anyway and knew the only way he could get him was an OC role...

Ancient history -- when Coach Mac left for the Pats, Pasqualone (DC) was picked as HC and DeLeone (OC) stuck around. But situations differ -- Marrone wanted Hackett as his OC in Buffalo, offered a big salary, and why wouldn't Hackett want the opportunity?
Then, consider -- Shafer likely wasn't expecting all this to happen, and it was late December. Had to hold recruits, keep recruiting, and build his staff. Made some good decisions with his staff (Lester as QB coach, Bullough as DC) and some bad (McDonald as OC, Perles as OL coach). Doubt the selection of McDonald was "in mind the whole time" -- he needed an experienced OC, probably had limited options, made a bad hiring decision.

 

[Orangepace]

FSU, LSU and Clemson with a injured QB were all weaker and Brisset is a better QB than NCSU has now. I think back to the 2013 Notre Dame game in the Meadowlands, the one where a TD was taken off the board at the end of the first half , for no reason. That game, SS employed a Tampa2 defense which kept the it within 1 score in the fourth quarter. Well all everyone here did was cry and scream like children about what an idiot he was for doing that, and now DB uses that D and it's enlightened. You want it every which way on this issue.

You are all over the place in this counter argument. Clemson #1, Miami #7, LSU #17 and NCSt #24 in current CFP ballot. If FSU didn’t lose their QB, they would have been right up there too. This schedule was more difficult than any GRob, Marrone, or Shafer faced.

The T2 used against ND was a very bad T2. That defense was shredded by bubble screens so wildly that I thought the CBs were playing zone. It took Dungy years to get the appropriate personnel and teach a team to run a T2. Shafer thought he could install it during the week of the game.

 

[Scooch]

Ancient history -- when Coach Mac left for the Pats, Pasqualone (DC) was picked as HC and DeLeone (OC) stuck around. But situations differ -- Marrone wanted Hackett as his OC in Buffalo, offered a big salary, and why wouldn't Hackett want the opportunity?
Then, consider -- Shafer likely wasn't expecting all this to happen, and it was late December. Had to hold recruits, keep recruiting, and build his staff. Made some good decisions with his staff (Lester as QB coach, Bullough as DC) and some bad (McDonald as OC, Perles as OL coach). Doubt the selection of McDonald was "in mind the whole time" -- he needed an experienced OC, probably had limited options, made a bad hiring decision.

Pasqualoni was the LB coach. In fact there’s the (what may be aprocraphal) story about a player reacting to the news that P was named HC by asking “the crazy LB coach?”. I’m not sure DeLeone was ever considered for a D1 HC gig, he’s not really that type.

 

[Bayside44]

FSU, LSU and Clemson with a injured QB were all weaker and Brisset is a better QB than NCSU has now. I think back to the 2013 Notre Dame game in the Meadowlands, the one where a TD was taken off the board at the end of the first half , for no reason. That game, SS employed a Tampa2 defense which kept the it within 1 score in the fourth quarter. Well all everyone here did was cry and scream like children about what an idiot he was for doing that, and now DB uses that D and it's enlightened. You want it every which way on this issue.

LSU and FSU were road games, and FSU just plugged in the next 5 star kid as did Clemson. And the ball didn't exactly bounce our way, we got a TD taken off the board with a fumble 6 the other way, and the refs benched Dungey for a play inside the 5.

I went to that NCSU that we won. They were terrible. I've seen NCSU play in person a few times since against UNC, they got bigger, stronger, deeper at every single position.

I honestly don't get the love affair with a guy who was a such a bad coach and made our school look so stupid. At least GRob left Marrone with a handful of guys that were able to get paid for playing football.

 

[SoBristol]

Pasqualoni was the LB coach. In fact there’s the (what may be aprocraphal) story about a player reacting to the news that P was named HC by asking “the crazy LB coach?”. I’m not sure DeLeone was ever considered for a D1 HC gig, he’s not really that type.

Thanks for that correction on PP.
Agree on DeLeone -- smart assistant coach, not the HC personality, and a college football guy.

 

[Trueblue25]

What are you talking about, Shafer faced the same schedule.

Lets not look at names. Id be interested in seeing who faced more top 50 teams.

 

[Millhouse]

This is insufferable. You realize - or I guess a bunch of folks don't - that the NCSU and Wake and BC teams rolled out in 2013 aren't the same teams they put out today.

Heck, even Pitt in a down year for them beat a top 4 Miami.

all these stats trying to measure schedules when all you need to do is look at the names of the teams, teams are always the same.

 

[Trueblue25]

Bc and NC St each have top 10 d line draft picks this year for god sakes.


There’s a chance that LSU, FSU, Miami, Clemson, BC, UL and NC ST. will each have at least one top 20 draft pick.


Think about that.

We played 4 of those teams on the road.

 

[TheCusian]

What are you talking about, Shafer faced the same schedule.

Average SOS

Marrone: 53
Shafer: 46
Babers: 7

The ground shifted under us the last two seasons. Everyone in our division (Addazzio just makes the cut due to this season, honestly surprised) made good hires and got better. You've been pounding the "Clawson is a great coach" drum but now you think the Wake teams Shafer played are the same as this years team?!

This is crazy even for you.