IN SHAFER I TRUST

[TheCusian]

Current trajectory? How many games in a row do we have to lose for you to wake up?

Do you believe all losses are equal and all wins are equal? Or do you note progress even in a loss?

I was angry after USF. We got out coached and out played.

I was encouraged by 3Q and 2OT scores against UVa. Defense looked better. Offense fixed some things. Still lost.

I was thinking we'd struggle against Pitt since they are better than both those other teams. But we came out hot and looked improved over the week before. We failed to close out the game, but the progress is there.

If you fail to see the progress on both sides of the ball despite the losses, maybe it's you who is asleep?

 

[Rocco]

Great post, money3189. I couldn't have said it any better!

Shafer needs more time; we are not a program that can just go throw $4-5 million/year at some hotshot coach, so let's just bag that whole idea. Also, I have ALWAYS hated the idea of hiring some up-and-comer who could have success here and bounce as soon as that happens. So, we get a year or two of success, then what? Back to square one. I'd rather have long-term success than just a year or two.

I believe in Shafer for wanting to fortify this program from the ground up and keeping a consistent approach to things. He is committed to the area and this Syracuse program is best suited for the long term to have him at the helm IMO. Playing HC roulette might work at Pitt or elsewhere, but no thanks here. Regardless of what you others might think, recruiting has improved. The kids Shafer & Co have brought here are freshmen and sophomores. Many of them are already the playmakers, too. The guy knows how to identify talent and has really assembled a stable of quality recruiters.

Have the results been good so far? Absolutely not, but you can see the incredible potential this team has, especially on offense. It's awesome. This offense has the chance to be explosive next year.

I still think we upset either Clemson or FSU or come pretty damn near close. We're on the brink.

 

[CuseOnly]

By year 3 depth is the responsibility of the new coach not the old one. Here is what we should have this year from Marrone as starters:

QB Hunt, who was able to get us to a Bowl already
RB McFarlane, who was averaging over 6 ypc coming into this season
LT Foy
LG Robinson
C Emerich
RG Trudo
RT Palmer
TE Parris
WR Lewis
WR Broyld

That isn't a great team but it is good enough to push for a Bowl game if used properly.

Not if your defense is starting 8-9 freshman and sophmores.

 

[Statesman1]

Do you believe all losses are equal and all wins are equal? Or do you note progress even in a loss?

I was angry after USF. We got out coached and out played.

I was encouraged by 3Q and 2OT scores against UVa. Defense looked better. Offense fixed some things. Still lost.

I was thinking we'd struggle against Pitt since they are better than both those other teams. But we came out hot and looked improved over the week before. We failed to close out the game, but the progress is there.

If you fail to see the progress on both sides of the ball despite the losses, maybe it's you who is asleep?

I guess I'm an agnostic when it comes to college football here at Syracuse. Unlike many Syracuse fans, I take little comfort in merely getting better at losing, which is all a close loss is at the end of the day. I don't believe in moral victories, and I don't believe in participation trophies either. "Not sucking" as we did at USF is not the standard we should aspire to! After all it was Shafer himself who was crowing after that hot 3-0 start against the cupcakes, because, after all, the only thing that matters is if you win or lose at this level. Too many SU fans are willing to settle for mediocrity and an occasional birth in the Pinstripe Bowl. I'm sorry but 6 win seasons should be our floor not our ceiling every 5th year! As for Shafer, clearly he gets another year in 2016 but he needs to start putting wins on the ledger. It's not like he was a program outsider when he got the gig, yet he still did not retain the key HCDM recruits, which is one of the primary reasons for staying within the program for the hire. Yes the talent has improved, but we are still at the bottom of the ACC-so it's not like we're even at mediocre, let alone outperforming in that department either. Nobody is rooting harder for SS to succeed than I am, I can't take another rebuilding decade.

 

[orangepassion]

Shafer inherited a program in decent shape, he has taken that program backwards. Regardless of young talent, people can continue to back him which is fine but they also need to understand that he needs to win a couple of games here going in. Back to back 3 win seasons blows.. He didn't inherit a duke program like cutcliffe. Like I said, I am fine with him staying provided we finish with some respectability. 2 - 3 win seasons back to back is terrible and the recruiting isn't good enough to justify that. I see a few good skilled guys not much else. We are still 13/14 in the ACC recruiting wise.

I'm just saying is Coyle could easily can shafer at the end of the year at 4-8 and be justified

We also might have a hard time holding onto our best recruits if we keep losing

 

[orangepassion]

Again fellas, Im not judging Shafer for 2014. The ridiculous amount of injuries and the lack of ACC depth behind them. So he gets a pass from me that year. Im judging 2013 and 2015. 2016 is the year he makes or breaks me. I think thats a fair amount of time to show results and get better as a game day coach.

That's fair, but them maybe we shouldn't judge 2013 b/c we faced a bunch of backup QB's that year

 

[anomander]

I also think we should ex out 2014 season. Im not counting that year. Im evaluating 2013, 2015 seasons. If the injuries Shafer endured that year happens to Marrone, Pasqualoni or MacPherson in their second years it would be similar results. Can you imagine Loeb at quarterback in 201o and 2011? We wouldnt have won a game.

Can't do that because in 2013 we beat some bad teams to begin with that were decimated with injuries themselves. I remember that Maryland team was missing their top 4 LBs, and half their OL. Weren't they also starting a 3rd string qb?

Same with Wake. Ton of injuries

In 2014 there was a stretch of 5 or 6 teams that we played that were all missing their best, or k e of their best players.

CMU - Rawls (Marshawn lynchs rookie backup)
Lville - davantae Parker. Plays for Phins now
WF - Cappanarro was killing us in 1st half when they were winning before breaking collarbone.
FSU - basically rest half their starters
Clemson - Watson and starting RB

List goes on. Injuries don't count. Everybody deals with them.

Look at this year. We are probably one of the healthiest teams in the country. It all evens out.

 

[TheCusian]

I guess I'm an agnostic when it comes to college football here at Syracuse. Unlike many Syracuse fans, I take little comfort in merely getting better at losing, which is all a close loss is at the end of the day. I don't believe in moral victories, and I don't believe in participation trophies either. "Not sucking" as we did at USF is not the standard we should aspire to! After all it was Shafer himself who was crowing after that hot 3-0 start against the cupcakes, because, after all, the only thing that matters is if you win or lose at this level. Too many SU fans are willing to settle for mediocrity and an occasional birth in the Pinstripe Bowl. I'm sorry but 6 win seasons should be our floor not our ceiling every 5th year! As for Shafer, clearly he gets another year in 2016 but he needs to start putting wins on the ledger. It's not like he was a program outsider when he got the gig, yet he still did not retain the key HCDM recruits, which is one of the primary reasons for staying within the program for the hire. Yes the talent has improved, but we are still at the bottom of the ACC-so it's not like we're even at mediocre, let alone outperforming in that department either. Nobody is rooting harder for SS to succeed than I am, I can't take another rebuilding decade.

That's cool. At least you admit it.

I enjoy following a team to catch moments like these. When the guys calling the games are picking their jaws off the ground after a Dungey run or throw. When we're getting better but everyone outside of Syracuse doesn't notice. Yet.

I don't believe in moral victories either. I believe in putting in the work to get better.

 

[Cuseregular]

I guess I'm an agnostic when it comes to college football here at Syracuse. Unlike many Syracuse fans, I take little comfort in merely getting better at losing, which is all a close loss is at the end of the day. I don't believe in moral victories, and I don't believe in participation trophies either. "Not sucking" as we did at USF is not the standard we should aspire to! After all it was Shafer himself who was crowing after that hot 3-0 start against the cupcakes, because, after all, the only thing that matters is if you win or lose at this level. Too many SU fans are willing to settle for mediocrity and an occasional birth in the Pinstripe Bowl. I'm sorry but 6 win seasons should be our floor not our ceiling every 5th year! As for Shafer, clearly he gets another year in 2016 but he needs to start putting wins on the ledger. It's not like he was a program outsider when he got the gig, yet he still did not retain the key HCDM recruits, which is one of the primary reasons for staying within the program for the hire. Yes the talent has improved, but we are still at the bottom of the ACC-so it's not like we're even at mediocre, let alone outperforming in that department either. Nobody is rooting harder for SS to succeed than I am, I can't take another rebuilding decade.

much in there to agree with. BUT: do you really believe that many which I take to mean most SU fans are ok with mediocrity, participation trophies, close games to USF and moral victories? I think that's bunk and is evidenced by the paltry attendance of those whom won't accept that. While the rest of us masochistically slog on and continue to hang in there, and no one I know is ok with that.

And I literally know not one person who is ok with what you post. Maybe ok with some reality along the lines of a consistent top 25 team say 5 0f 7 years with a bowl game with a shot at the top 10 once a decade as that's recognizing reality. But no one I know, have met, have talked to who are SU football fans are even remotely ok with what you characterize that many are ok with.

 

[Alsacs]

Ryan Nassib who was the best QB we have had since McNabb was recruited by Gerg.
In 2008 when Gerg was fighting for his job he redshirted Nassib. Marrone coaching Nassib was thing for that kid's college career. Who do you think would have gotten more out of Nassib Gerg(the man who recruited him) or Marrone?

I think SS has done adequate at recruiting and Dungey is clearly the best thing we got going in the future. Depending on we brought in who is to say the new coach couldn't just as good with Dungey as this staff. I hate how we use the youth excuse and forget the actual coaching and game planing aspect. I want to win games. I sick of moral victories. If we do well and somebody wants to hire SS good. It means we had a good year.

BTW I am not responding to you Cusian for 24 hours. That response above really showed me what your about. Say whatever you want but I am not going to respond to it.

 

[anomander]

I'm fine with Shafer but for the love of god stop using Marrone as justification. He left the cupboard bare? Well no shiit. The whole Jr class was a wash because the class didn't stay together for 1 reason or another. Who knows how the people he brought in that year would be?

 

[TheCusian]

Can't do that because in 2013 we beat some bad teams to begin with that were decimated with injuries themselves. I remember that Maryland team was missing their top 4 LBs, and half their OL. Weren't they also starting a 3rd string qb? Same with Wake. Ton of injuries In 2014 there was a stretch of 5 or 6 teams that we played that were all missing their best, or k e of their best players. CMU - Rawls (Marshawn lynchs rookie backup) Lville - davantae Parker. Plays for Phins now WF - Cappanarro was killing us in 1st half when they were winning before breaking collarbone. FSU - basically rest half their starters Clemson - Watson and starting RB List goes on. Injuries don't count. Everybody deals with them. Look at this year. We are probably one of the healthiest teams in the country. It all evens out.

There are tons of variables that lead to wins and losses every week. They should all be considered. I hate the "it all evens out" take because I don't think it's true. A injured WR is not an injured QB. What if we were so good against the run in 2014 that Rawls wouldn't have made a difference anyways?

I'm not disagreeing that we catch breaks and our W's should be evaluated as such. But so should our losses when we have key injuries.

 

[GoSU96]

Fools gold. He hit his ceiling, IMO. Recruiting had already leveled off and he had no QB going forward.

Except a guy who went 7-4 as a starter as a Sophomore, he had nobody.

 

[TheCusian]

Ryan Nassib who was the best QB we have had since McNabb was recruited by Gerg. In 2008 when Gerg was fighting for his job he redshirted Nassib. Marrone coaching Nassib was thing for that kid's college career. Who do you think would have gotten more out of Nassib Gerg(the man who recruited him) or Marrone? I think SS has done adequate at recruiting and Dungey is clearly the best thing we got going in the future. Depending on we brought in who is to say the new coach couldn't just as good with Dungey as this staff. I hate how we use the youth excuse and forget the actual coaching and game planing aspect. I want to win games. I sick of moral victories. If we do well and somebody wants to hire SS good. It means we had a good year. BTW I am not responding to you Cusian for 24 hours. That response above really showed me what your about. Say whatever you want but I am not going to respond to it.

Huh? Your mad about what you thought I said.

 

[TheCusian]

Except a guy who went 7-4 as a starter as a Sophomore, he had nobody.

Hunt wasn't very good for 80% of that year. He had horrible passer rating and his best throw was him taking off.

 

[Willy75]

Hunt wasn't very good for 80% of that year. He had horrible passer rating and his best throw was him taking off.

Check the record, Hunt's rating was over 117.

 

[GoSU96]

Hunt wasn't very good for 80% of that year. He had horrible passer rating and his best throw was him taking off.

Was or was there not a QB on the roster that went 7-4 as a starter?

 

[anomander]

There are tons of variables that lead to wins and losses every week. They should all be considered. I hate the "it all evens out" take because I don't think it's true. A injured WR is not an injured QB. What if we were so good against the run in 2014 that Rawls wouldn't have made a difference anyways? I'm not disagreeing that we catch breaks and our W's should be evaluated as such. But so should our losses when we have key injuries.

If that's a case the 2013 season we won games against teams with injury problems and in 2014 it was us ( although other teams were dealing with injuries themselves). At what point do you just say injuries are part of football. I think we caught a break with Hunt getting injured this year. I honestly think we'd be worse off, and nobody would see the potential we have. I also think 3 wins right now with Hunt would have all but sealed Shafers fate. There's a case where an injury worked out for us. I just think Football is a game of survival. I'm fine to look at variables but injuries aren't one of them. At every level, and every team there are a multitude of injuries, and a lot of the tjme even when people play they are playing hurt. You can't view every game as a what if because you can do it for every single game played by every single team each weekend. To me it's just a part of the game.

 

[anomander]

I'm just wondering does anyone ever check the injury reports on Saturdsy? Anyone who wants to use injuries as an excuse I suggest they go to Donbest.com and look at CFB injuries on Saturday morning. At any given tjme you have most teams missing/or injured at least 6 or 7 people, and there are plenty with many more.

 

[Statesman1]

much in there to agree with. BUT: do you really believe that many which I take to mean most SU fans are ok with mediocrity, participation trophies, close games to USF and moral victories? I think that's bunk and is evidenced by the paltry attendance of those whom won't accept that. While the rest of us masochistically slog on and continue to hang in there, and no one I know is ok with that.

And I literally know not one person who is ok with what you post. Maybe ok with some reality along the lines of a consistent top 25 team say 5 0f 7 years with a bowl game with a shot at the top 10 once a decade as that's recognizing reality. But no one I know, have met, have talked to who are SU football fans are even remotely ok with what you characterize that many are ok with.

Allow me to introduce you to the Cusian...he's down for mediocrity as long as we sprinkle in a few moments. Next man up. I trust the coaches!

 

[OrangeAggieArmy]

Great post, money3189. Also, I have ALWAYS hated the idea of hiring some up-and-comer who could have success here and bounce as soon as that happens. So, we get a year or two of success, then what? Back to square one. I'd rather have long-term success than just a year or two.

Who needs a yr or two of success when you can have none? Why risk a return to any semblance of national relevance, some positive momentum, better recruits taking notice, when you can stick with a nice guy and hope he learns how to be a better game day coach? I guess Shafer has not instilled in me any confidence that he will bring long term success. He reminds me of Bo Pellini without the wins.

 

[Alsacs]

Cincinnati from 2004 to present has gone from Mark D'Antonio to Brian Kelly to Butch Jones to Tommy Tubberville and they have gone to bowls in 8 of the last 9 years.

Yeah we want to keep Scott Shafer because he will stay here. Honestly we deserve mediocrity with some of these spin jobs. I want wins I don't care who the coach is. I don't care if Coach X goes 8-4, 9-3 and then moves. It means the program is winning games.

We aren't going to get a Jim Boeheim in football. JB has spoiled us.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I'm sure all of you were awesome in your jobs after your 3rd year too. Agree with money, no doubt he gets a fourth year, any discussion is silly otherwise. Next year is the make or break for HCSS.

 

[qdawgg]

I'm sure all of you were awesome in your jobs after your 3rd year too. Agree with money, no doubt he gets a fourth year, any discussion is silly otherwise. Next year is the make or break for HCSS.

More than awesome because I've been awesome in my last two careers since the 1st year.

 

[Alsacs]

I'm sure all of you were awesome in your jobs after your 3rd year too. Agree with money, no doubt he gets a fourth year, any discussion is silly otherwise. Next year is the make or break for HCSS.

This is relevant why? What do any of us have to do with SS? Any discussion is silly? Honestly we deserve to suck with this mindset. No accountability okay.
What is make or break? If we go 6-6 that is good next year?