Is .500 in serious jeopardy?

[elimunelson]

We have a team of easy-to-coach kids, by design. It makes life easier for JB, which I'm sure he wanted.

We don't have a single player on the team with an edge or who plays with a chip on his shoulder. It's a problem.

I think the desire to recruit the guys with said edge or chip on shoulder come with price tags now or need serious handling. The Diors of the world are divas. He doesn't want to deal with that. So your point is valid and was justified when we were going to Sweet 16s.

The job is a young man's job now with the amount of *ss kissing you need to do in the recruiting/AAU world. It's a business at age 13.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

I think alsacs point was that plus defensive bigs don't have to be shooters to still have value in the NBA, so the assessment would then be whether Jesse has that potential as a rim defender in the NBA.

I think he might.

Plus Jordan can't get off the bench partly because he's old and not the impact guy he had been. But the dude has logged plenty of minutes in his career.

Look at the Lopez brothers. They didn't register a percentage for 3pters until 7 or 8 years into their NBA careers. Brook is shooting 50% from there this year (before the surgery) attempting 4 per game.

 

[Noexcuse]

Hard to swallow that what we may be rooting for this year is for the team to get to .500

 

[chugg21]

I think alsacs point was that plus defensive bigs don't have to be shooters to still have value in the NBA, so the assessment would then be whether Jesse has that potential as a rim defender in the NBA.

I think he might.

Plus Jordan can't get off the bench partly because he's old and not the impact guy he had been. But the dude has logged plenty of minutes in his career.

Those comparisons were ridiculous because they are/were borderline all-star type centers. Realistic high-end comparisons need to be backup 5s or more likely 4th big off the bench types that are at the very end of the rotation. Can he be Jaxson Hayes? Maybe. Certainly not close to that level of athlete but imagine his bball IQ is significantly higher.

 

[Alsacs]

Look at the Lopez brothers. They didn't register a percentage for 3pters until 7 or 8 years into their NBA careers. Brook is shooting 50% from there this year (before the surgery) attempting 4 per game.

Edwards has potential to be in the NBA. He just needs to put on good weight and pro coaching can teach these guys who to develop a shot of they can shoot. Nobody has a clue if Jesse could develop that as I bet JB would immediately bench him if he tried to shoot a 3.

 

[chugg21]

Look at the Lopez brothers. They didn't register a percentage for 3pters until 7 or 8 years into their NBA careers. Brook is shooting 50% from there this year (before the surgery) attempting 4 per game.

They didn't need to shoot previously because they are 7'0 280lb behemoths. They have evolved because if they didn't learn to shoot they would be out of the league or would be mothballed outside of very specific matchups.

 

[AZOrange]

That's debatable, because I don't believe that Symir is starting caliber -- and that the advantages he brings to the table [better ball handling and athleticism] are offset by his glaring offensive limitations in virtually every other respect. Plus, it would be a massive downgrade in terms of combined backcourt scoring.

And it depends on what you mean as "good" with respect to Joe vs. Buddy. I agree that Joe has more versatility, as a combo guard who can chip in as a supplementary ball handler / play maker. Buddy can't do those things. But Buddy -- who is a minus defender himself -- is 6+ inches taller than Joe, and he's proven that he can carry the team offensively. Joe has had some hot games, but he's never been the focal point of the offense that defenses are geared to stop.

Interesting thing is, I think that a Joe off-the-ball situation could be successful, if he were paired with the right backcourt partner. Perfect example [although the ship has sailed] -- Kadary. Kadary would provide the "bigger" guard for the zone, and also alleviate much of the ball handling pressure that gives Joe trouble. In a complimentary capacity, you could make the argument that Joe might even become a MORE effective playmaker as a secondary ball handler / distributor.

But Symir and Joe? Too small for the zone, not enough combined scoring pop.

Maybe. But this team sorely needs a ball handler and someone that plays some semblance of D up top.

 

[Horn88]

Those comparisons were ridiculous because they are/were borderline all-star type centers. Realistic high-end comparisons need to be backup 5s or more likely 4th big off the bench types that are at the very end of the rotation. Can he be Jaxson Hayes? Maybe. Certainly not close to that level of athlete but imagine his bball IQ is significantly higher.

A guy like Claxton on Brooklyn is a role he might be able to play. I don’t know if Jesse can move laterally like Claxton can though.

Claxton is pretty good role player modern big that can switch well on the perimeter and protect the rim. Then be effective on offense diving after setting the screen or finishing around the rim.

 

[Sherman20]

Man, its hard to tell. BC lost to Albany but beat ND. Pitt has played a bunch of teams really close lately. Wake does look good, as does Clemson. No way we come close to Duke this year (I hope I am forced to eat those words, but doubt it). UNC looks better than us, Going to VaTech and ND will be tough. It just doesn't look good for keeping the streak alive. I would guess 13-17 to 15-15 range. Of course I am hoping for better.

Va Tech has been losing a bunch at home this season. They’ve got real problems just like we do. But agreed that every road game will be tough.

 

[Scooch]

I think the desire to recruit the guys with said edge or chip on shoulder come with price tags now or need serious handling. The Diors of the world are divas. He doesn't want to deal with that. So your point is valid and was justified when we were going to Sweet 16s.

The job is a young man's job now with the amount of *ss kissing you need to do in the recruiting/AAU world. It's a business at age 13.

I think there's a difference between divas and edge. I didn't consider Flynn a diva, but he sure as hell played with a chip. Maybe I'm splitting hairs. But there wasn't a single kid on the floor last night who started playing with an "screw that" attitude once Miami started whomping us in the 2nd half.

Once upon a time JB was the best coach in the country at getting the best out of "problem" kids. Now he clearly doesn't want anyone who is a challenge at all. I guess that could work if we had a team of great players and largely nice guys -- the 2010 team comes to mind as being in that model. But without the former, the latter doesn't cut it.

 

[Sherman20]

I can’t even believe we are having the discussion but as I look at the remaining schedule I only see 5 realistic “should be” wins. Pittx2, wake x2 and BC.

This is shaping up terribly

I don’t think you’re familiar with the ACC this season and how mediocre it is across the board. Nobody is really good outside of Duke. Also, Wake could be a middle of the pack team or better. Their KenPom numbers are decent. I don’t see us beating Wake both times, but we’re also not going to lose ALL our other games besides BC and Pitt.

 

[supp]

I think the desire to recruit the guys with said edge or chip on shoulder come with price tags now or need serious handling. The Diors of the world are divas. He doesn't want to deal with that. So your point is valid and was justified when we were going to Sweet 16s.

The job is a young man's job now with the amount of *ss kissing you need to do in the recruiting/AAU world. It's a business at age 13.

With the portal, you also have to be constantly recruiting your own players. You lose their trust for good or for bad reasons and they take off. Can't imagine a mass exodus helps recruiting new talent either. If you want to pretend like these new developments don't exist, go coach at a lower level where the stakes aren't the same but there's also less nonsense.

 

[Sherman20]

I think the desire to recruit the guys with said edge or chip on shoulder come with price tags now or need serious handling. The Diors of the world are divas. He doesn't want to deal with that. So your point is valid and was justified when we were going to Sweet 16s.

The job is a young man's job now with the amount of *ss kissing you need to do in the recruiting/AAU world. It's a business at age 13.

We don’t need Diors. How about just kids like Isiah Wong, Charlie Moore, or Kam McGusty? Guys with some skills and athleticism. There were kids available in the portal that we never even tried to go after. Or how about not alienating the guys we have like Kadary, Woody, Griffin or Braswell during the season? He never tried to recruit any of them back. Just shrugs his shoulders and moves on. And then doesn’t take full advantage of the portal.

 

[CardiacCuse]

Yeah maybe or maybe not. If Buddy goes then 2 logjams are relieved. That helps. Allows Joe to go to his natural position.

this season, joe has been a better shooting guard than buddy imo

 

[djcon57]

this season, joe has been a better shooting guard than buddy imo

Well to be fair Buddy is doubled consistently. But strictly hitting open shots, Joe has been lights out. So of course we have him running point

 

[007]

Sadly, yes the streak is definitely in jeopardy. JB never having a losing season is right up there with one of THE most remarkable accomplishments of his HOF career along with his longevity. It’s also a double edge sword because I would bet that the thought of this streak ending, especially given the prominent role his sons play on his team, will increasingly eat away at him.

He has never experienced that type of “failure.” To be clear, having one losing season is not a failure objectively. But, JB has always found a way to win. Is it any wonder why he is so set in his ways? I wonder if having a losing season will be the tipping point for him psychologically…

 

[kingtidge]

VCU was the eyebrow raise, Colgate was the flashing yellow, Georgetown was the slowly blinking red and then everything when straight red after that.

I hate it's happening with both his boys on the team but this probably needed to happen at some point as we have played with fire /flirted with disaster the past 7 sevens. Right now what happens next matters a lot more than what is happening now.

Well said.

It is what it is.

"Boeheim Shootaround" with no real starting point guard and hamstringing Gerrard into that position was always going to be a dicey proposition.

We'll trudge through this season, quite likely with a losing record... All eyes on what happens next.

 

[kirbivore]

Absolutely

 

[kirbivore]

I think there's a difference between divas and edge. I didn't consider Flynn a diva, but he sure as hell played with a chip. Maybe I'm splitting hairs. But there wasn't a single kid on the floor last night who started playing with an "screw that" attitude once Miami started whomping us in the 2nd half.

Once upon a time JB was the best coach in the country at getting the best out of "problem" kids. Now he clearly doesn't want anyone who is a challenge at all. I guess that could work if we had a team of great players and largely nice guys -- the 2010 team comes to mind as being in that model. But without the former, the latter doesn't cut it.

When you grow up rich the odds of being soft are increased

 

[OHIORANGES]

This team reminds me of my last Tavern League team.
Yeah, we played zone and we sucked too.
So, I retired. Why won’t JB?

 

[OttoMets]

I think there's a difference between divas and edge. I didn't consider Flynn a diva, but he sure as hell played with a chip. Maybe I'm splitting hairs. But there wasn't a single kid on the floor last night who started playing with an "screw that" attitude once Miami started whomping us in the 2nd half.

Once upon a time JB was the best coach in the country at getting the best out of "problem" kids. Now he clearly doesn't want anyone who is a challenge at all. I guess that could work if we had a team of great players and largely nice guys -- the 2010 team comes to mind as being in that model. But without the former, the latter doesn't cut it.

Arguably he adopted this mindset right after Flynn and friends left school.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

 

[Scooch]

Arguably he adopted this mindset right after Flynn and friends left school.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

Maybe. I still think we had some kids who played with fire, and may have needed some handling behind the scenes.

Honestly, I hate playing pop psychologist. Bottom line is that our talent level is a shell of where it was 6+ years ago. Results reflect that.

 

[andyw715]

So... assuming that JB isn't able to pull a rabbit out of his hat this time and we finish below .500, what happens next?

The groundhog says "JAB years left + 5; of bottom of the barrel Syracuse basketball."

 

[DoctorBombay]

Yes...w/ 2 caveats.
(1) Season just started, and still have chances to turn things around.
(2) When "turn things around" is equal to reaching .500, then absolutely...we're in deep isht.

Also, let it be said that what I'm witnessing this year has me well past the point of caring about the .500 record. This team is troubling in so many ways- from how it was constructed, to how they're being coached.
As others have mentioned, the signs were all there for a number of years now, and count me in as one of the "Suzie Sunshine" crew, for hanging on to the Sweet 16/Final 4 runs as Band-Aids, and willfully ignoring the impending rot that is now beginning to manifest.
I don't apologize for being a loyal fan, but I'm aware that eventually all truth comes to light. Truth is we're in serious trouble, this year, next year, and moving forward.
Hopefully it won't take a massive upheaval to right this ship. Bball is the crown jewel of SU Athletics- it has to be preserved.

 

[elimunelson]

I think there's a difference between divas and edge. I didn't consider Flynn a diva, but he sure as hell played with a chip. Maybe I'm splitting hairs. But there wasn't a single kid on the floor last night who started playing with an "screw that" attitude once Miami started whomping us in the 2nd half.

Once upon a time JB was the best coach in the country at getting the best out of "problem" kids. Now he clearly doesn't want anyone who is a challenge at all. I guess that could work if we had a team of great players and largely nice guys -- the 2010 team comes to mind as being in that model. But without the former, the latter doesn't cut it.

I get your point and i think it's valid. I also think those said problem kids aren't putting up with Jim's BS anymore from their vantage point. What we call hard coaching and responsibility is now irritation and an impediment to immediate success. These guys come into programs already playing at very high AAU levels and basically pros. I'll be shocked if Bennie doesn't transfer not because I think he's a bad kid but it's what usually happens at SU now with guys who don't hit immediately as high recruited guys

The game has changed. It happens. I'm not saying Jim is Bob Knight but he's closer to that model than to the recent model of coaching which is damn the torpedos and go with the 5 star guy and hope they are ready to roll. Even a guy like Calipari is struggling now because those 5 stars sometimes don't work out and sometimes don't want to be dogged at.