Is DM's potential move really that bad?

[billsin01]

It seems like there is a lot of panic as well as some venom around DM's potential move to the NFL but I'm not sure I really understand a lot of it.

For example, there is so much back-and-forth about how so many circumstances at SU are driving DM away, but couldn't it be -- at least for the most part -- that DM is simply being courted with a lot of money to coach at the highest level? I mean, isn't doubling or tripling your salary (or more) and moving to a job that at least based on perception is better something that all of us would do in a heartbeat?

And let's say there are a ton of circumstances at SU that have made this job far more challenging. Well, that's not likely to change, right? I mean, private school in the middle of nowhere in a climate that has a reputation of being the worst in the U.S. and playing in the worst of the BCS conferences. None of that changes. We're very unlikely to be a 'have' any time soon and that likely means we'll have a tough time eliminating a lot of those issues (though severe global warming could help is SU turns into San Diego).


And, while we're on the topic, are we sure DM is that good a coach? I mean, I get that he's a good one but half this board wanted him fired two months ago. I like the guy but I'm not sure he's irreplaceable. And while I value continuity as much as anyone, I'm not sure that happens in the new world of college sports. Kids are going to get very used to things and circumstances changing ... often. Conferences, alignments, coaches, schedules ... change is a part of this whole thing.

I don't know, at the end of the day DM leaving would represent a nice move for him and an opportunity to find another bright, young coach who would inherit a much better situation than DM did. Is it great? No, but I'm not sure it's the disaster many here believe.

 

[kingtidge]

I don't know, at the end of the day DM leaving would represent a nice move for him and an opportunity to find another bright, young coach who would inherit a much better situation than DM did. Is it great? No, but I'm not sure it's the disaster many here believe.

We could always get our original target! Skippy Holtz...

I highlight the above as we know (from painful experience) that finding a good HC is hard (and to some degree) a roll of the dice...

...and when it goes wrong, grown men talk about snowballs catching fire and the little engine that could (but that derailed into a multi-car trainwreck chemical fire...)

It may not be a disaster, but it's another dice roll that we should all be very afraid of...

 

[Rocco]

The larger issue is stability moving forward IMO. With the way college football is now, Syracuse will always deal with this problem. We are a stepping stone school for a successful coach who WILL move on to the next big college job or NFL job. Unless SU is truly willing to shell out some serious dough, I do not see this problem ever ending.

Not sure anything can be done at this point to save DM, but looking forward, unless the school is willing to pay big bucks, I am not sure how we will ever be able to hang onto a coach who's had success at Syracuse. It is the sobering truth.

 

[billsin01]

We could always get our original target! Skippy Holtz...

I highlight the above as we know (from painful experience) that finding a good HC is hard (and to some degree) a roll of the dice...

...and when it goes wrong, grown men talk about snowballs catching fire and the little engine that could (but that derailed into a multi-car trainwreck chemical fire...)

It may not be a disaster, but it's another dice roll that we should all be very afraid of...

I get that it's not what we want. I'm just not sure we should all be very afraid in the sense that I think this will happen far more often in a world where even the schools have no idea what the future holds. A good coach was never easy to keep around and it's only going to get harder. And I really do value everything DM has done but I'm not necessarily in the camp that feels like we're replacing chip kelly.

 

[billsin01]

The larger issue is stability moving forward IMO. With the way college football is now, Syracuse will always deal with this problem. We are a stepping stone school for a successful coach who WILL move on to the next big college job or NFL job. Unless SU is truly willing to shell out some serious dough, I do not see this problem ever ending.

Not sure anything can be done at this point to save DM, but looking forward, unless the school is willing to pay big bucks, I am not sure how we will ever be able to hang onto a coach who's had success at Syracuse. It is the sobering truth.

Even shelling out big dough won't save us from that fate. I said that when we hired DM -- the new goal for us is to hire a guy good enough that other schools and franchises want him, but pay him enough to stick around to at least get us to the BCS or something.

 

[xc84]

It seems like there is a lot of panic as well as some venom around DM's potential move to the NFL but I'm not sure I really understand a lot of it.

For example, there is so much back-and-forth about how so many circumstances at SU are driving DM away, but couldn't it be -- at least for the most part -- that DM is simply being courted with a lot of money to coach at the highest level? I mean, isn't doubling or tripling your salary (or more) and moving to a job that at least based on perception is better something that all of us would do in a heartbeat?

And let's say there are a ton of circumstances at SU that have made this job far more challenging. Well, that's not likely to change, right? I mean, private school in the middle of nowhere in a climate that has a reputation of being the worst in the U.S. and playing in the worst of the BCS conferences. None of that changes. We're very unlikely to be a 'have' any time soon and that likely means we'll have a tough time eliminating a lot of those issues (though severe global warming could help is SU turns into San Diego).


And, while we're on the topic, are we sure DM is that good a coach? I mean, I get that he's a good one but half this board wanted him fired two months ago. I like the guy but I'm not sure he's irreplaceable. And while I value continuity as much as anyone, I'm not sure that happens in the new world of college sports. Kids are going to get very used to things and circumstances changing ... often. Conferences, alignments, coaches, schedules ... change is a part of this whole thing.

I don't know, at the end of the day DM leaving would represent a nice move for him and an opportunity to find another bright, young coach who would inherit a much better situation than DM did. Is it great? No, but I'm not sure it's the disaster many here believe.

I think you make a good case for why it is bad.

 

[Timonen]

I get that it's not what we want. I'm just not sure we should all be very afraid in the sense that I think this will happen far more often in a world where even the schools have no idea what the future holds. A good coach was never easy to keep around and it's only going to get harder. And I really do value everything DM has done but I'm not necessarily in the camp that feels like we're replacing chip kelly.

i'm not nearly as worried about losing DM as I am at the (possible/potential) realization that we're not all-in on football as a University in a way necessary to compete for recruits. The move to the ACC tells me one thing. The apparent hesitancy to pay for the infrustracture to succeed in the ACC tells me the opposte and is ultra-depressing, if accurate. The "what it takes" numbers were known before we agreed to the move. When we moved, we made the commitment one way or the other. To back down would be awful.

 

[billsin01]

I think you make a good case for why it is bad.

what's bad about any of that? Obviously hiring a new coach is risky and yeah, we'd love to be a school with SEC/BiG $ and facilities, but that's never been the case and never will be. We can still compete, our coach is looking to further his career, and we can still hire a quality coach.

I agree with Timonen above re: actually showing the will to spend the money and compete, but DM's actual move could be due, largely, to a good opportunity coming his way. What's so terrible about that?

 

[Rocco]

Even shelling out big dough won't save us from that fate. I said that when we hired DM -- the new goal for us is to hire a guy good enough that other schools and franchises want him, but pay him enough to stick around to at least get us to the BCS or something.

Money walks a long walk in this game. Not saying Marrone is like that, but others are and will be persuaded by green.

LVille just locked up Strong over other schools so it can be done.

 

[RMH44]

The larger issue is stability moving forward IMO. With the way college football is now, Syracuse will always deal with this problem. We are a stepping stone school for a successful coach who WILL move on to the next big college job or NFL job. Unless SU is truly willing to shell out some serious dough, I do not see this problem ever ending.

Not sure anything can be done at this point to save DM, but looking forward, unless the school is willing to pay big bucks, I am not sure how we will ever be able to hang onto a coach who's had success at Syracuse. It is the sobering truth.

Agreed but I think the bigger point is that if we can't keep DM happy we'll probably have a difficult time keeping any decent coach for an extended period of time. It's decision time...either we find a way to be competitive in the facilities race or we drop down a level and call it a day.

After a decade of embarrassing football, we finally have a product that we can be proud of. How this situation is handled will speak volumes about where we're headed.

 

[Timonen]

LVille just locked up Strong over other schools so it can be done.

This is just wrong. "Locking up" is a mirage. It means he will get paid more for the time being, but if it's compelling, a major U or NFL could easily pay the buy-out and take him. That's just the business. If Florida or South Carolina or Arkansas comes calling for Strong, he's gone.

 

[Rocco]

Agreed but I think the bigger point is that if we can't keep DM happy we'll probably have a difficult time keeping any decent coach for an extended period of time. It's decision time...either we find a way to be competitive in the facilities race or we drop down a level and call it a day.

After a decade of embarrassing football, we finally have a product that we can be proud of. How this situation is handled will speak volumes about where we're headed.

I will say this one last time, facilities are NOT one of the leading factors in Marrone's looming decision nor his perceived bad taste. I know they lack behind the majority of schools, but there are deeper issues than that. You can believe what you want.

I cannot speak to other coaches' thoughts.

 

[kingottoiii]

It seems like there is a lot of panic as well as some venom around DM's potential move to the NFL but I'm not sure I really understand a lot of it.

For example, there is so much back-and-forth about how so many circumstances at SU are driving DM away, but couldn't it be -- at least for the most part -- that DM is simply being courted with a lot of money to coach at the highest level? I mean, isn't doubling or tripling your salary (or more) and moving to a job that at least based on perception is better something that all of us would do in a heartbeat?

If Marrone leaves IMO it says he just isn't cut out for the college game. If his goal was to one day be HC in the NFL then why in the hell did he come to SU? Going to SU would be a huge risk for him. It would have made more sense to stay at New Orleans. I think he liked the idea of being HC at SU but didn't realize how difficult the job was and all the other non FB stuff he would have to deal with. In the NFL your job is 100% FB. In college it is 75% FB and 25% stuff that distracts you from FB. He seems like a guy who just wants to deal with the FB stuff. If his dream job really was HC at SU it wouldn't matter what the NFL offered him.

And let's say there are a ton of circumstances at SU that have made this job far more challenging. Well, that's not likely to change, right? I mean, private school in the middle of nowhere in a climate that has a reputation of being the worst in the U.S. and playing in the worst of the BCS conferences. None of that changes. We're very unlikely to be a 'have' any time soon and that likely means we'll have a tough time eliminating a lot of those issues (though severe global warming could help is SU turns into San Diego).

He should have known all those things going in. They would be a lame excuse to leave now.

And, while we're on the topic, are we sure DM is that good a coach? I mean, I get that he's a good one but half this board wanted him fired two months ago. I like the guy but I'm not sure he's irreplaceable. And while I value continuity as much as anyone, I'm not sure that happens in the new world of college sports. Kids are going to get very used to things and circumstances changing ... often. Conferences, alignments, coaches, schedules ... change is a part of this whole thing.

IMO he certainly is replaceable. I think he has done a B job here at SU thus far. There are plenty of HCs who would have done worse. But there are also plenty who would have done just as good if not better. It is all a crap shoot. Marrone turned out fine. The next guy could turn out better or a lot worse. At least with Marrone you know what you have, which is less risky going forward. IMO it seems like Marrone has really struggled to get to that 25-25 record. We had the talent to get to 25-25 but he always seemed to have to make adjustments and look for answers to fix things. It is great that he was able to fix things but some of this stuff he should have figured out sooner. For example it shouldn't take weeks before the season to see we are better going uptempo. People here had been calling for that the year before. It should not take several weeks into the season to realize you need a goaline package and that you have holes on STs. It shouldn't take till midseason to realize we run better out of the pro set and that Smith is better using that as well. He deserves a lot of credit for making all of these changes, I just wish they were done before the season started. If they were, we would be in the Sugar Bowl.

I don't know, at the end of the day DM leaving would represent a nice move for him and an opportunity to find another bright, young coach who would inherit a much better situation than DM did. Is it great? No, but I'm not sure it's the disaster many here believe.

 

[Rocco]

This is just wrong. "Locking up" is a mirage. It means he will get paid more for the time being, but if it's compelling, a major U or NFL could easily pay the buy-out and take him. That's just the business. If Florida or South Carolina or Arkansas comes calling for Strong, he's gone.

It's not wrong. Of course these contracts can be broken. Did I say anything about eternity? LMAO.

 

[billsin01]

Money walks a long walk in this game. Not saying Marrone is like that, but others are and will be persuaded by green.

LVille just locked up Strong over other schools so it can be done.

I agree with this but if I had to bet one way or another I'd still say L'ville replaces Strong in the next 5 years. Either they have to find some way to buy him out b/c he's not winning enough or, if he is as good as he appears to be, someone will exceed what they are paying and that opportunity will be tough to pass up. I'm not saying it's a lock and they've certainly stepped up to the plate, but I still don't know that it buys them continuity for the full 10 years or so of that deal.

 

[RMH44]

I will say this one last time, facilities are NOT one of the leading factors in Marrone's looming decision nor his perceived bad taste. I know they lack behind the majority of schools, but there are deeper issues than that. You can believe what you want.

I cannot speak to other coaches' thoughts.

If facilities aren't one of DM's leading factors...would you mind giving me a quick summary of what his concerns are?

 

[Rocco]

IMO he certainly is replaceable. I think he has done a B job here at SU thus far. There are plenty of HCs who would have done worse. But there are also plenty who would have done just as good if not better.

I think when you factor everything in, Marrone has been a very good to great hire. We luckily missed out on Holtz (fired at USF), Edsall (nuff said) and Gill (never offered, but wanted to be here but got hired at KU and got canned). We did not the have money to go out and lure a big name coach to come in and take over that shitshow in '08. Hard to say who would have done better, but it is rather easy to say who would've done worse (see above).

 

[OrangeMojo]

I think a lot of it stems from all of his statements when he came in about this being his dream job and why he got into coaching in the first place. If all of that was true and then he moves on after only 4 years and moderate success then it makes it seem like a much bigger deal than it probably is - and that's why you see the hysteria on the board.

Truth of the matter is that the wife probably isn't that happy with the area and would like to move on.

 

[billsin01]

If Marrone leaves IMO it says he just isn't cut out for the college game. If his goal was to one day be HC in the NFL then why in the hell did he come to SU? Going to SU would be a huge risk for him. It would have made more sense to stay at New Orleans. I think he liked the idea of being HC at SU but didn't realize how difficult the job was and all the other non FB stuff he would have to deal with. In the NFL your job is 100% FB. In college it is 75% FB and 25% stuff that distracts you from FB. He seems like a guy who just wants to deal with the FB stuff. If his dream job really was HC at SU it wouldn't matter what the NFL offered him.

He should have known all those things going in. They would be a lame excuse to leave now.

You may be right on a lot of this stuff. I'd say it isn't that he "isn't cut out" for the college game as much as he may just not have liked what he saw once he got the job. There's nothing wrong with that. Dream jobs aren't always what you think they are -- that's nothing new. And the challenges at SU aren't going away -- that was my point. I agree with you. I was just saying there's no sense fretting about it b/c, well, it's life.

But two points I'll quibble with:

1) if there are apparently two NFL teams in a bidding war for his services -- as per the La Canfora report -- then coming to SU was indeed the right move. i'm not sure how anyone would argue otherwise.

2) It's easy to talk about dream jobs but if someone offers to triple your salary it's not rare for that dream job to look a lot less dreamy. It's human.

 

[billsin01]

I think a lot of it stems from all of his statements when he came in about this being his dream job and why he got into coaching in the first place. If all of that was true and then he moves on after only 4 years and moderate success then it makes it seem like a much bigger deal than it probably is - and that's why you see the hysteria on the board.

Truth of the matter is that the wife probably isn't that happy with the area and would like to move on.

I'm not trying to be a pr!ck but we're getting upset that a coach was saying things that weren't entirely true at an introductory press conference? Ummm ...

 

[Timonen]

It's not wrong. Of course these contracts can be broken. Did I say anything about eternity? LMAO.

well, they didn't "lock him up," they just paid him more. the truth is that the right offer just hasn't come for him yet.

 

[orangepassion]

If you'd watch this video, you'd know why. If a guy who had nothing to the school left after a few years, most people wouldn't be surprised. But after the whole shpiel he gave, it is disappointing he is looking around this quickly. I am sure the job isn't perfect, but no job is.

 

[Jeepers]

Maybe he just really hates gatorade baths?

 

[billsin01]

If you'd watch this video, you'd know why. If a guy who had nothing to the school left after a few years, most people wouldn't be surprised. But after the whole shpiel he gave, it is disappointing he is looking around this quickly. I am sure the job isn't perfect, but no job is.

Again, football coaches not speaking the truth in public forums. This is the world today, folks. Whoever is hired next will be talking about how amazing SU is too but if he's not paid he'll be gone as well.

 

[OrangeMojo]

I'm not trying to be a pr!ck but we're getting upset that a coach was saying things that weren't entirely true at an introductory press conference? Ummm ...

well - the thing is I believe they were true at the time - which is why some find it so worrisome that he's apparently changed his mind in a somewhat short time frame

personally, like I said I think it's the wife and not that big of a deal - I talked my wife into moving to upstate NY from Atlanta - we lasted less than 3 years and were on our way back down to Atlanta - she just never took to the area (reference - also see Major Applewhite tenure at SU)