Is JB needed for our 2-3 zone to be successful...

[Dave85]

During one of the games after JB returned an announcer made a comment that JB was masterful at making adjustments to our zone. The implication was JB was better at pulling the levers on the defense than coach Hop.

This is amazing defense:

"The Yellow Jackets scored just 22 points after halftime, shooting 29.6 percent. Their 3-point shooting dwindled from 40 percent to 12.5."
​

But almost on cue, JB throws this out there as if he knew I was thinking about it:

"People overlook defense," Boeheim said. "Trevor (Cooney) and (Mike Gbinije) are so good on defense. It's all overlooked because we play zone defense. You have to play defense in a zone. It's not some freaking magic trick here. You have to work at it and you have to play it."
​

So then my thinking has two fears. One fear is maybe coach Hop isn't ready. And my worst fear is after JB is gone maybe our defense will never be as good as it has been. Can anyone talk me off the ledge or do I jump into the abyss of fear?

 

[br801]

I believe Hop has been around JB's zone long enough to know how to run it and tweak it. However, unless he chooses to make the same commitment to it that JB has (and I don't believe he will when he finally gets the reins), it likely will never be as effective as JB's greatest zones. That doesn't mean it can't be very effective and continue to be SU's primary defense, but it just stands to reason that if you are practicing and deploying significantly different defenses, the ceiling and effectiveness of each will be comprised in some way.

Now go try to relax.

Oh, and JB came quite close to letting an -bomb fly when making that statement in his presser Saturday.

 

[Dave85]

I believe Hop has been around JB's zone long enough to know how to run it and tweak it. However, unless he chooses to make the same commitment to it that JB has (and I don't believe he will when he finally gets the reins), it likely will never be as effective as JB's greatest zones. That doesn't mean it can't be very effective and continue to be SU's primary defense, but it just stands to reason that if you are practicing and deploying significantly different defenses, the ceiling and effectiveness of each will be comprised in some way.

Now go try to relax.

Oh, and JB came quite close to letting an -bomb fly when making that statement in his presser Saturday.

I know as I get older my Turrets is getting worse. I'm amazed JB keeps it under control so well.

 

[bballbeadle]

During one of the games after JB returned an announcer made a comment that JB was masterful at making adjustments to our zone. The implication was JB was better at pulling the levers on the defense than coach Hop.

This is amazing defense:

"The Yellow Jackets scored just 22 points after halftime, shooting 29.6 percent. Their 3-point shooting dwindled from 40 percent to 12.5."
​

But almost on cue, JB throws this out there as if he knew I was thinking about it:

"People overlook defense," Boeheim said. "Trevor (Cooney) and (Mike Gbinije) are so good on defense. It's all overlooked because we play zone defense. You have to play defense in a zone. It's not some freaking magic trick here. You have to work at it and you have to play it."
​

So then my thinking has two fears. One fear is maybe coach Hop isn't ready. And my worst fear is after JB is gone maybe our defense will never be as good as it has been. Can anyone talk me off the ledge or do I jump into the abyss of fear?

Dearest Dave, the abyss of fear is always available for us. This board is our guru, that turns darkness "gu" into light "ru."

Or the other way around!

 

[HOFCeluck]

Is 2-3 zone needed for our program to be successful?

 

[FrancoPizza]

Is 2-3 zone needed for our program to be successful?

Our program has been successful long before we went all-zone 5 years ago. Hop won't orchestrate the zone as effectively, largely because he will actually devote practice to other things as well. We should become a harder team to game plan for. We'll see gains in other areas... notably some functional m2m and full court pressure schemes... and possibly a more national recruiting profile. Biggest question is how long it will take Hop to settle into the head coach role. Learning how to work the refs, when to call timeouts, when to get in a player's face, when to use stall ball, hiring the right assistants, etc.

 

[br801]

I know as I get older my Turrets is getting worse. I'm amazed JB keeps it under control so well.

Some would say he doesn't keep it under control very well.

I would say it's just JB being JB, and just sit back and enjoy the show while we can.

 

[Dave85]

Some would say he doesn't keep it under control very well.

I would say it's just JB being JB, and just sit back and enjoy the show while we can.

I was thinking after JB retires they need to put a kiosk in the Melo center of a video tape loop showing the highlights from all his press conferences over the years.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I believe Hop has been around JB's zone long enough to know how to run it and tweak it. However, unless he chooses to make the same commitment to it that JB has (and I don't believe he will when he finally gets the reins), it likely will never be as effective as JB's greatest zones. That doesn't mean it can't be very effective and continue to be SU's primary defense, but it just stands to reason that if you are practicing and deploying significantly different defenses, the ceiling and effectiveness of each will be comprised in some way.

Now go try to relax.

Oh, and JB came quite close to letting an -bomb fly when making that statement in his presser Saturday.

Interesting - you don't think Hop will be a zone clone. I hope you're wrong.

I am a little worried as the apparent discrepancy between the two stints seems to widen. But it was a small sample size, in a rushed situation.

Seems like a lot of tradition and identity of SU will be lost if he switches to M2M. I also think it would be risky for Hop because it would make him more disposable.

 

[SoBristol]

Per Gbinije interview, JB is a very competitive guy, brings out the best in us (said with a smile).

Hopkins knows the concepts of the zone. Is he crazy-intense & demanding to the point of insisting his players give it everything they have, every possession, or get pulled? In that second half against GT, the players were nearly as intense as JB.

 

[General20]

During one of the games after JB returned an announcer made a comment that JB was masterful at making adjustments to our zone. The implication was JB was better at pulling the levers on the defense than coach Hop.

This is amazing defense:

"The Yellow Jackets scored just 22 points after halftime, shooting 29.6 percent. Their 3-point shooting dwindled from 40 percent to 12.5."
​

But almost on cue, JB throws this out there as if he knew I was thinking about it:

"People overlook defense," Boeheim said. "Trevor (Cooney) and (Mike Gbinije) are so good on defense. It's all overlooked because we play zone defense. You have to play defense in a zone. It's not some freaking magic trick here. You have to work at it and you have to play it."
​

So then my thinking has two fears. One fear is maybe coach Hop isn't ready. And my worst fear is after JB is gone maybe our defense will never be as good as it has been. Can anyone talk me off the ledge or do I jump into the abyss of fear?

Coaching matters, and Boehiem is as good as coaches get, so its extremely unlikely that we will be as good under Hopkins as we were under Boeheim. That doesn't mean the basketball team will turn into the football team, just that the level of play will drop.

Boeheim has also been one of the most unlucky coaches in history. From Keith Smart to Z. Sims injury in the championship game to two centers missing the NCAA tournament on #1 seeds. So its quite possible that even though our teams are worse the accomplishments don't drop off that much.

 

[Dave85]

Coaching matters, and Boehiem is as good as coaches get, so its extremely unlikely that we will be as good under Hopkins as we were under Boeheim. That doesn't mean the basketball team will turn into the football team, just that the level of play will drop.

Boeheim has also been one of the most unlucky coaches in history. From Keith Smart to Z. Sims injury in the championship game to two centers missing the NCAA tournament on #1 seeds. So its quite possible that even though our teams are worse the accomplishments don't drop off that much.

The AO injury killed me.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Coaching matters, and Boehiem is as good as coaches get, so its extremely unlikely that we will be as good under Hopkins as we were under Boeheim. That doesn't mean the basketball team will turn into the football team, just that the level of play will drop.

Boeheim has also been one of the most unlucky coaches in history. From Keith Smart to Z. Sims injury in the championship game to two centers missing the NCAA tournament on #1 seeds. So its quite possible that even though our teams are worse the accomplishments don't drop off that much.

Also, recruiting matters. And if SU can keep it together (which we seem to be doing) through the sanctions and maintain the new found dominance in the North East, Hop's talent may be better.

 

[General20]

Also, recruiting matters. And if SU can keep it together (which we seem to be doing) through the sanctions and maintain the new found dominance in the North East, Hop's talent may be better.

I'm figuring that recruiting will hold steady to begin with. Boehiem has been a very good recruiter and I expect Hopkins to also be very good, though he is going to have to prove he can win to keep the top recruits coming in.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Coaching matters, and Boehiem is as good as coaches get, so its extremely unlikely that we will be as good under Hopkins as we were under Boeheim. That doesn't mean the basketball team will turn into the football team, just that the level of play will drop.

Boeheim has also been one of the most unlucky coaches in history. From Keith Smart to Z. Sims injury in the championship game to two centers missing the NCAA tournament on #1 seeds. So its quite possible that even though our teams are worse the accomplishments don't drop off that much.

The AO injury is still one of the most painful non-family member dying moments of my life. I lost faith in god and humanity and that fairness exists for a good 3-4 months.

 

[Dave85]

The AO injury is still one of the most painful non-family member dying moments of my life. I lost faith in god and humanity and that fairness exists for a good 3-4 months.

I didn't lose my faith in God but it sure hurt pretty bad! My faith in humanity has always been challenged. However, in Orange I trust!

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I'm figuring that recruiting will hold steady to begin with. Boehiem has been a very good recruiter and I expect Hopkins to also be very good, though he is going to have to prove he can win to keep the top recruits coming in.

I think for the most part, in the last 5 years we have had a slight uptick in recruiting. I think years of being good plus the conference realignments have given us prime North East recruiting.

I think Hop will be able to keep that going. And when you start getting the upper talent the NBA drain makes replenishing it a full time job. But I think he is up for it.

 

[MikeSU02]

I think recruiting may take an uptick, especially with a more national reach to it.

However, I think it's going to take a bit before Hop can successfully execute his own strategy. I don't think we'll be bad, just that we may have some bubble years.

 

[cuseinseattle]

I think the impact of no Boeheim will really hurt us for 5 years at least and maybe longer. I think a lot of people hear have never lived the normal life of a non-blue blood and it's going to hit them really hard. I love Hop but I fear he doesn't have the fire in him and ability to hold players accountable that Boeheim has. Boeheim is one of the 10 best college basketball coaches of the last 40 years. There will be a drop off in the zone and in the wins.

 

[br801]

Interesting - you don't think Hop will be a zone clone. I hope you're wrong.

I am a little worried as the apparent discrepancy between the two stints seems to widen. But it was a small sample size, in a rushed situation.

Seems like a lot of tradition and identity of SU will be lost if he switches to M2M. I also think it would be risky for Hop because it would make him more disposable.

I think he will still use it as his primary defense, but will employ man-to-man at times, and perhaps deviate a bit in terms of recruiting and bring in more players who don't fit the recent JB zone mold in terms of size.

 

[MSOrange]

Interesting - you don't think Hop will be a zone clone. I hope you're wrong.

I am a little worried as the apparent discrepancy between the two stints seems to widen. But it was a small sample size, in a rushed situation.

Seems like a lot of tradition and identity of SU will be lost if he switches to M2M. I also think it would be risky for Hop because it would make him more disposable.

We've had this discussion before a long time ago Sgt. I totally respect your opinion, but we had tradition and identity long before zone became our primary defense. It's called winning. As long as that continues, I don't care what defense he plays.

 

[HoustonCuse]

So then my thinking has two fears. One fear is maybe coach Hop isn't ready. And my worst fear is after JB is gone maybe our defense will never be as good as it has been. Can anyone talk me off the ledge or do I jump into the abyss of fear?

I just don't buy the thinking that Hopkins has shown he isn't ready. Guys, it is going to take more than a handful of games in the middle of a season to get good at being HC. I don't care how long Hop has been in the program, moving to the #1 chair is a dramatic change. Cannot be overstated. Additionally, he was hamstrung by the factors we have heard already: 1. not his team, 2. suspension was moved up so it was more of a "pop" suspension with several road games involved, 3. no contact with JB (which will not be the case in reality unless JB croaks), 4. not in a position to instill any signature onto the team because he has to hand it back in a couple weeks, 5. different relationships with these players than the HC needs and can't just change it because he has to go back to being good-ole-buddy-Hop in a couple weeks for the team to be successful after that.

PLUS, it will just take some time for him to hone his head coaching chops. The fact that he may not be as good in realtime at managing the game or the zone shouldn't be a shock. JB has been doing it for 40 years for goodness sake. You don't go from zero to hall of fame in 48 hours and that is what Hop was expected to do by many fans. What would the record be if Tom Izzo took over the team during the suspension? Maybe 5-4? Or maybe 2-7 because he tried to get them to play man? What I am saying is chill and don't give up on Mike yet.

 

[Nicknack]

I will be sad and excited when Boeheim leaves. Sad because we will never again experience what we have now. Some unfortunately don't recognize and appreciate this. Boeheim is a legend and one of the best ever. Excited because Hopkins will bring his own style to a winning program that will continue to thrive. I really like Hop because he has the intensity and fire but at the same time, upbeat and supportive of the guys. He really seems like a player's coach. A guy that players will love to play for but also a coach that players will respect and listen to on and off the court. I fully expect that years down the line, we will chuckle a bit over current questions concerning his ability to coach at a high level successfully.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I think he will still use it as his primary defense, but will employ man-to-man at times, and perhaps deviate a bit in terms of recruiting and bring in more players who don't fit the recent JB zone mold in terms of size.

I contend that JB does not recruit for the zone, but goes in for the top talent he can get. Flynn, DC2, Cooney, KJ2, and Diagne are all not zone recruits. As SU's ability to recruit increases, we've been able to select recruits that fit the style better - MCW and Battle. But JB would take any top talent and have the zone accommodate them (ie DC2 or AO)

 

[Dave85]

What I am saying is chill and don't give up on Mike yet.

We are talking about Syracuse fans. It's going to be quite a discussion when the time comes. There will be two camps. The first camp will go with Hop. The second camp will say hire the best possible person you can find for the job. It will be quite a debate.