Is JB needed for our 2-3 zone to be successful...

[Dave85]

I contend that JB does not recruit for the zone, but goes in for the top talent he can get. Flynn, DC2, Cooney, KJ2, and Diagne are all not zone recruits. As SU's ability to recruit increases, we've been able to select recruits that fit the style better - MCW and Battle. But JB would take any top talent and have the zone accommodate them (ie DC2 or AO)

Battle (Kid Mamba) may be the best recruit we've had in 13 years. Everyone in New Jersey talks about him.

 

[721Comstock]

Well, JB was a pretty long athlete in his day, but he's a bit undersized by today's guard standards.

I'd assume he would have excellent knowledge of how and where to play the guard spots in the 2-3 zone, but I would imagine his lack of game conditioning and recent high-level on-court experience would work against him.

 

[br801]

We are talking about Syracuse fans. It's going to be quite a discussion when the time comes. There will be two camps. The first camp will go with Hop. The second camp will say hire the best possible person you can find for the job. It will be quite a debate.

There is no debate, Hop will be the guy. Second-guessing that decision? That's been going on for a while and will continue.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

We've had this discussion before a long time ago Sgt. I totally respect your opinion, but we had tradition and identity long before zone became our primary defense. It's called winning. As long as that continues, I don't care what defense he plays.

True, if Hop wins enough it won't matter.

But pre-JB this was a regional program, where winning was primarily amongst the St Bonas and Colgates of the world. We now scoff at the mid-majors. SU now is not only in the attendance race every year but is a huge draw on the road.

The test to the program will be in the more troubled times. If you have JB gone, the zone gone, and some mediocre records - there is a lot of risk to the brand.

 

[Dave85]

There is no debate, Hop will be the guy. Second-guessing that decision? That's been going on for a while and will continue.

I didn't know it was announced. Do you have a link to the actually press release?

 

[cuseinseattle]

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...ame_mike_hopkins_as_head_coach_designate.html

 

[djcon57]

I didn't know it was announced. Do you have a link to the actually press release?

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...ficially-named-syracuses-head-coach-designate

 

[br801]

I didn't know it was announced. Do you have a link to the actually press release?

Dave, don't do this to me. You read this board all the time, so you must know he is officially the coach in waiting. The university made that clear at the time JB announced his planned timetable for retirement.

 

[Dave85]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...ficially-named-syracuses-head-coach-designate

I actually did not know it was official.

"That means Hopkins should become Syracuse's head coach in March or April of 2018."

As my kids teacher used to say, "You get what you get and you don't get upset." And my grandmother used to say (in a really high pitch Edith Bunker type voice), "If you don't have anything nice to say then shut your God dam mouth!" She would also say, "You know how to get what you want? WANT WHAT YOU HAVE!"

 

[Dave85]

Dave, don't do this to me. You read this board all the time, so you must know he is officially the coach in waiting. The university made that clear at the time JB announced his planned timetable for retirement.

Relax, someone posted the link. I don't know how I missed it. Maybe it was all the talk about getting the best person.

 

[creatorsgam]

Biggest question is how long it will take Hop to settle into the head coach role. Learning how to work the refs, when to call timeouts, when to get in a player's face, when to use stall ball, hiring the right assistants, etc.

I agree with this. Not concerned with "Coach Hopkins." Curious to see "Manager Hopkins."

 

[br801]

Relax, someone posted the link. I don't know how I missed it. Maybe it was all the talk about getting the best person.

Here you go, an active thread with more pointless speculation about who should succeed JB:
http://syracusefan.com/threads/st-johns.99885/

 

[Dave85]

Here you go, an active thread with more pointless speculation about who should succeed JB:
http://syracusefan.com/threads/st-johns.99885/

I agree. It sounds like the contract is signed and done.

 

[OttoMets]

Coaching matters, and Boehiem is as good as coaches get, so its extremely unlikely that we will be as good under Hopkins as we were under Boeheim. That doesn't mean the basketball team will turn into the football team, just that the level of play will drop.

Boeheim has also been one of the most unlucky coaches in history. From Keith Smart to Z. Sims injury in the championship game to two centers missing the NCAA tournament on #1 seeds. So its quite possible that even though our teams are worse the accomplishments don't drop off that much.

Wait, what? For someone who's made his reputation on cold analysis and objective posts, "most unlucky" is a surprising characterization.

To take it further, though, missed Syracuse free throws and a winning offensive play by Keith Smart didn't have anything to do with luck.

Boeheim's probably about as unlucky as the Iona coach whose team got bounced when Marius Janulis hit a buzzer-beater. That is, not very. Sometimes the ball drops, sometimes it doesn't, but when you're talented enough to coach at the same place for four decades, it all comes out in the wash.

 

[donniesyracuse]

The second camp will say hire the best possible person you can find for the job.

I still find it strange that anyone, particularly the University, would be in a camp other than that one.

 

[br801]

Wait, what? For someone who's made his reputation on cold analysis and objective posts, "most unlucky" is a surprising characterization.

To take it further, though, missed Syracuse free throws and a winning offensive play by Keith Smart didn't have anything to do with luck.

Boeheim's probably about as unlucky as the Iona coach whose team got bounced when Marius Janulis hit a buzzer-beater. That is, not very. Sometimes the ball drops, sometimes it doesn't, but when you're talented enough to coach at the same place for four decades, it all comes out in the wash.

I think he means unlucky in the sense that were it not for some untimely injuries, suspensions and other odd occurrences, JB might have an additional title or two on his record.

 

[donniesyracuse]

I think he means unlucky in the sense that were it not for some untimely injuries, suspensions and other odd occurrences, JB might have an additional title or two on his record.

I think one could probably say that about other coaches as well. Boeheim has had his share of good luck as well.

 

[OttoMets]

I think he means unlucky in the sense that were it not for some untimely injuries, suspensions and other odd occurrences, JB might have an additional title or two on his record.

Absolutely. I'll add that we got badly screwed on seeds/matchups in 2005 and 2011 and faced a professional wrestling -level officiating performance in 2012. And luck played a role in a lot of that.

But we just see this because we live with the program. Many fans can probably point out similar crushing incidents at their schools (maybe not as many, but I don't know; either way, Boeheim's longevity is unique), and we could also pinpoint some great luck that helped us win games (Albany in 2003, the West opening up in 1996, the perfect Indiana matchup a couple years ago).

The Arinze thing is still a kick in the nuts, though.

 

[Dave85]

I still find it strange that anyone, particularly the University, would be in a camp other than that one.

I don't disagree. The thing is it sounds like they signed a contract with Coach Hop so the matter is kind of mute at this point. I never understood the word "moot". People seem to use the word "moot" opposite of how it is defined. Maybe it makes sense when you consider we drive on the Parkway and park on the driveway. Oy vey!

 

[Cuse House]

I think the real question here is how not playing zone exclusively affects our recruiting. JB recruits for the zone. Hopkins has said he will play both zone and man. I think our recruiting will be affected the most because we won't be targeting specific styles of athletes. Also, not sure if it is true or not, but I am sure some recruits are reluctant to come here as the NBA plays man to man defense.

 

[721Comstock]

I don't disagree. The thing is it sounds like they signed a contract with Coach Hop so the matter is kind of mute at this point. I never understood the word "moot". People seem to use the word "moot" opposite of how it is defined. Maybe it makes sense when you consider we drive on the Parkway and park on the driveway. Oy vey!

You have internet access.
Try looking up the definition of the terms "moot" and "mute" - and you will discover why it's used the way it is.
Since points don't speak, they can't be mute.

 

[orangefan13]

Just a prediction, I think Hopkins will be more then Fine.

It wasn't just our defense though our offense was off. Since JB came back our 3rd 4th and 5th scorers really stepped up. That deserves discussion if not its own topic.

 

[General20]

Wait, what? For someone who's made his reputation on cold analysis and objective posts, "most unlucky" is a surprising characterization.

To take it further, though, missed Syracuse free throws and a winning offensive play by Keith Smart didn't have anything to do with luck.

Boeheim's probably about as unlucky as the Iona coach whose team got bounced when Marius Janulis hit a buzzer-beater. That is, not very. Sometimes the ball drops, sometimes it doesn't, but when you're talented enough to coach at the same place for four decades, it all comes out in the wash.

Bottom line, when two great coaches go up against each other, they both usually make all the right moves. Who wins and loses comes down to other factors. Boeheim's performances as a coach are on par with any coach ever. His results are not. I call that luck, but maybe there is a better word for it.

I also don't think it "all come out in the wash" at all. Some benefit from luck, and others don't. Obviously Boeheim has been on both sides in his career, but on a whole he's been on the unlucky side about as much as any coach I can think of. If Keith Smart missed that shot (which was about as low a percentage shot as you could hope for) would Boeheim be a better coach? Of course not. He would, however, be more successful. This is the kind of thing I am talking about. Things that have nothing to do with coaching that change the success Boeheim has had over his career.

I still think if Z. Sims doesnt get hurt in '96 against Kentucky Syracuse wins that game. He did get hurt, and that's just bad luck.

Look at Calhoun who has three titles. They came against Georgia Tech, Butler, and Duke. Seems pretty lucky to me that he happened to go up against two of the worst teams to ever make a title game.

Boeheim on the other hand went up against Indiana (in their hay-day with Bob Knight), that Kentucky team with 9 guys who went pro considered by some to be the best college team in the modern era, and blue blood Kansas.

I believe game plans and strategies dictate a lot, but when you are talking about inconsistent college age armatures, plenty of parity, a way too short three point line, and a one and done end of season scenario you have to admit luck plays a huge part in who wins every year.

 

[Dave85]

You have internet access.
Try looking up the definition of the terms "moot" and "mute" - and you will discover why it's used the way it is.
Since points don't speak, they can't be mute.

I guess it would be moot to argue with you. Oy vey.

 

[OttoMets]

Bottom line, when two great coaches go up against each other, they both usually make all the right moves. Who wins and loses comes down to other factors. Boeheim's performances as a coach are on par with any coach ever. His results are not. I call that luck, but maybe there is a better word for it.

I also don't think it "all come out in the wash" at all. Some benefit from luck, and others don't. Obviously Boeheim has been on both sides in his career, but on a whole he's been on the unlucky side about as much as any coach I can think of. If Keith Smart missed that shot (which was about as low a percentage shot as you could hope for) would Boeheim be a better coach? Of course not. He would, however, be more successful. This is the kind of thing I am talking about. Things that have nothing to do with coaching that change the success Boeheim has had over his career.

I still think if Z. Sims doesnt get hurt in '96 against Kentucky Syracuse wins that game. He did get hurt, and that's just bad luck.

Look at Calhoun who has three titles. They came against Georgia Tech, Butler, and Duke. Seems pretty lucky to me that he happened to go up against two of the worst teams to ever make a title game.

Boeheim on the other hand went up against Indiana (in their hay-day with Bob Knight), that Kentucky team with 9 guys who went pro considered by some to be the best college team in the modern era, and blue blood Kansas.

I believe game plans and strategies dictate a lot, but when you are talking about inconsistent college age armatures, plenty of parity, a way too short three point line, and a one and done end of season scenario you have to admit luck plays a huge part in who wins every year.

I agree that luck plays a huge part (especially with the one-and-done format to decide the champion). And Boeheim's had both kinds. But I think we're too close to the situation to assess his luck relative to others. I also think it's too easy for all of us to blame luck and forget that these setbacks can be overcome (the week after Arinze got hurt, Tom Izzo got dealt a worse hand when his starting point guard ruptured his Achillies; they won their way to the Final Four).

Taking it further, use your Calhoun example; he had a couple great teams who beat a great team (Duke) and a very good team (Tech - and UConn had to beat a great Duke team to get there). Butler was mediocre and so was UConn in 2011; they got lucky but they also won the games, something many teams -- SU included -- aren't always able to do. This is what we notice.

But we also forget that Jerome Dyson hurt his knee against SU in 2009, which crippled probably the best team in the country. Bad luck. Another excellent UConn team somehow had to play George Mason at a regional final in DC in front of 17,000 hostile fans in 2006. Bad luck. One of their best teams drew an underseeded Mississippi State (coming off an SEC championship win over the great Kentucky team) in an SEC arena in 1996. Bad luck. There are probably more, but of course I don't follow conference-mates as closely as I do SU.

It's all subjective (which is why I was surprised that you made such a bold declaration on the subject), but I do believe that anyone who's capable at his job over 40 years probably sees bad luck more or less canceled out by good luck. Given our rooting interest, it just might be difficult to see it.