Is JB willing/able to assemble a winning roster anymore?

[djcon57]

I think JB wanted to get these recruits, it’s just hard to make happen as Doug Gottlieb laid out. Daddyball, etc

 

[Cuse181]

Come on bees. This is a results-driven business and we all know that. And the results are mediocre at best.

As noted above he's simply not willing (recruiting grind, portal pursuit) to get the players here and he's apparently not able to see how fatally flawed his constructed rosters are - at least in the context to get them to rise above the barely-mediocre threshold. And apparently not able to sufficiently develop enough of those lesser players we do bring in, who either transfer or languish on the bench.

Again, results are everything.

Did you not read his post? He clearly articulated how JB was willing to do the work, that doesn’t mean he will get the results. This is a two way street and a player has to WANT to come here. Coaches can’t just tell kids they’re coming here, I know it’s hard to believe but they have free will.

 

[pearl31]

Did you not read his post? He clearly articulated how JB was willing to do the work, that doesn’t mean he will get the results. This is a two way street and a player has to WANT to come here. Coaches can’t just tell kids they’re coming here, I know it’s hard to believe but they have free will.

If the head coach of an ACC team truly recognizes what it takes to have his team competing to be in the top 3rd of the conference and comfortably included in the NCAAT field on an annual basis, he will do what it takes to build the necessary roster to accomplish that.

Bottom line.

If he can't recognize what it takes, or can't do what it takes to get that - it's a failure.


Edit: and think about that for a minute - I'm not yearning for some pie-in-the-sky perennial Final-4 contender or bringing in 5-star blue chip recruits every year. It's being top 5-6 in the conference and not being a tourney bubble team - if your a team/school with the history and clout of Syracuse how can that possibly be difficult to attain?

 

[orangecuse]

I think JB wanted to get these recruits, it’s just hard to make happen as Doug Gottlieb laid out. Daddyball, etc

Indeed.

Additionally, we have been mediocre for nearly a decade now. As mentioned, we haven't played a conference game ranked come January since 2014. That's a frigging long arse time. These recruits are well aware of what we have been/are present day. It just isn't that attractive enough to lure these highly ranked recruits anymore.

Moreover, what kid today honestly wants to go play for a stubborn, set in his ways, crotchety 78 year old coach? I'm not just singling out JB relative to age, but it's not as if the 'old' type coaches are knocking it out of the park, etc. along the recruiting trail. Although, there's not any, not to mention many, of/near JB's grandfather type age. K/Duke is the the exception of course, but JB hasn't anywhere near the standing/stature, etc. of K. And, K is retiring after this season.

Perhaps, at first formally being contacted by SU, it piques a higher level recruit's interest, but in actual reality, that recruit is likely just being respectful, he's not seriously considering Syracuse. Furthermore, playing zone all zone and nothing but the zone so help us all is about as alluring as taking a trip to the Ukraine nowadays.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Based on who's leaving and who is projected to join the team we should be adding a minimum of 2 players next season. We need a guard who can make plays and shoot and a wing that can do the same. These current guys won't get more than 19 or 20 wins. It should not be what we are settling for. Use the damn portal like it's there to be used.

 

[rrlbees]

What HS games has JB gone to during the season. Like the college coaches who go to all those games do.
We send Red, GMac because the HC doesn’t go.

When we played at Virginia Tech it was Red at Mintz HS game not JB.

An actual HS game? Not sure. I’d have to go back and read the recruiting threads and I’m not going to do that. I’d bet a name college coach like JB or K or Wright, etc attend very few if any actual HS games. That’s tough logistically. A coach doesn’t want to go someplace to see a player and be mauled by young kids and fans. That’s why for the most part you see them attending AAU games, tournaments, showcases etc. In many cases they are afforded areas where only coaches can sit. Then they can do what they’re there for and they chat up other coaches.

All I know is that during this past recruiting cycle our posters, maybe even you, were pumped up on the recruiting board. There was thoughts of a top 5 class and all these 4 and 5 star kids. People kept commenting on how hard JB was working and being out on the trail more than usual. We even had some pics of him at certain events with one or more assistants. The will was there. The able wasn’t. But while we didn’t get the 5 stars like we wanted, I still like this class and JB worked hard on these kids too. Very hard. And I think while they won’t all be stars, because it never works out that way, they each have themselves the POTENTIAL to be a star.

 

[Cuse181]

If the head coach of an ACC team truly recognizes what it takes to have his team competing to be in the top 3rd of the conference and comfortably included in the NCAAT field on an annual basis, he will do what it takes to build the necessary roster to accomplish that.

Bottom line.

If he can't recognize what it takes, or can't do what it takes to get that - it's a failure.


Edit: and think about that for a minute - I'm not yearning for some pie-in-the-sky perennial Final-4 contender or bringing in 5-star blue chip recruits every year. It's being top 5-6 in the conference and not being a tourney bubble team - if your a team/school with the history and clout of Syracuse how can that possibly be difficult to attain?

What do you want him to do? Like honestly, what is JB not doing that other coaches are?

You can’t offer up some broad statement like “he would do what needs to be done” and offer no details of what that entails. All of the arguments we have as fans against boeheim are being used by other teams: old coach, declining performance, no succession plan, 2-3 zone, etc. all of those items have an impact. Also, Syracuse’s history means nothing to these kids, and if it did why should that discount every other schools’ history? This is such an unrealistic view of the current landscape it’s almost unfathomable. Next you’ll tell me kids should beating down the football teams door because they one of the most winningest programs in football history. Guess what man, most kids don’t grow up cuse fans, it just doesn’t happen. They don’t have blind loyalty like we do, they weigh ALL of their options, and only one school gets them in the end.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Do players still even redshirt? Is there a point?

 

[rrlbees]

I think JB wanted to get these recruits, it’s just hard to make happen as Doug Gottlieb laid out. Daddyball, etc

We’re talking about the incoming class and I don’t think the current players had a big impact. It’s never been said or hinted that everyone was coming back. I doubt Flip gave even a second of thought about Jimmy being here or not.

 

[rrlbees]

Indeed.

Additionally, we have been mediocre for nearly a decade now. As mentioned, we haven't played a conference game ranked come January since 2014. That's a frigging long arse time. These recruits are well aware of what we have been/are present day. It just isn't that attractive enough to lure these highly ranked recruits anymore.

Moreover, what kid today honestly wants to go play for a stubborn, set in his ways, crotchety 78 year old coach? I'm not just singling out JB relative to age, but it's not as if the 'old' type coaches are knocking it out of the park, etc. along the recruiting trail. Although, there's not any, not to mention many, of/near JB's grandfather type age. K/Duke is the the exception of course, but JB hasn't anywhere near the standing/stature, etc. of K. And, K is retiring after this season.

Perhaps, at first formally being contacted by SU, it piques a higher level recruit's interest, but in actual reality, that recruit is likely just being respectful, he's not seriously considering Syracuse. Furthermore, playing zone all zone and nothing but the zone so help us all is about as alluring as taking a trip to the Ukraine nowadays.

What does any of that have to do with a willingness to bring kids on?

 

[Bayside44]

Indeed.

Additionally, we have been mediocre for nearly a decade now. As mentioned, we haven't played a conference game ranked come January since 2014. That's a frigging long arse time. These recruits are well aware of what we have been/are present day. It just isn't that attractive enough to lure these highly ranked recruits anymore.

Moreover, what kid today honestly wants to go play for a stubborn, set in his ways, crotchety 78 year old coach? I'm not just singling out JB relative to age, but it's not as if the 'old' type coaches are knocking it out of the park, etc. along the recruiting trail. Although, there's not any, not to mention many, of/near JB's grandfather type age. K/Duke is the the exception of course, but JB hasn't anywhere near the standing/stature, etc. of K. And, K is retiring after this season.

Perhaps, at first formally being contacted by SU, it piques a higher level recruit's interest, but in actual reality, that recruit is likely just being respectful, he's not seriously considering Syracuse. Furthermore, playing zone all zone and nothing but the zone so help us all is about as alluring as taking a trip to the Ukraine nowadays.

IMO the zone thing is completely overplayed here. Our zone moves so much it's like switching off all the time anyway. College defense and NBA defense are two different entities.

 

[Cuse181]

What does any of that have to do with a willingness to bring kids on?

They can’t argue it because it doesn’t make sense, I mean even his last sentence of “the recruit is likely just being respectful” even as syracuse is making top 3s of top level players. That just doesn’t make sense.

 

[djcon57]

We’re talking about the incoming class and I don’t think the current players had a big impact. It’s never been said or hinted that everyone was coming back. I doubt Flip gave even a second of thought about Jimmy being here or not.

Yeah I disagree. The head coach of the team openly spoke about Jimmy getting another year like a month ago

Update: Jim Boeheim says Jimmy Boeheim will petition NCAA to return to Syracuse for 5th season

Boeheim addressed a caller's question regarding Jimmy Boeheim's eligibility status on his radio show on Thursday.

www.syracuse.com

 

[rrlbees]

Yeah I disagree. The head coach of the team openly spoke about Jimmy getting another year like a month ago

Update: Jim Boeheim says Jimmy Boeheim will petition NCAA to return to Syracuse for 5th season

Boeheim addressed a caller's question regarding Jimmy Boeheim's eligibility status on his radio show on Thursday.

www.syracuse.com

And flip and the other forwards we recruited committed long before.

 

[Giants1973]

And flip and the other forwards we recruited committed long before.

I feel it's time for a change. Time for Red to take Over!!

 

[Cusefan0307]

And flip and the other forwards we recruited committed long before.

I agree he tried to get those guys, but we missed and the guys we have need to enhance their offensive skills. This means we need to try and get Mintz and go for it in the portal.

Based on the coaches comments he seems like he's ok with who he has and that is not a winning decision on his part.

 

[djcon57]

And flip and the other forwards we recruited committed long before.

Right...I never brought up Flip. You did.

...so when you said “It’s never been said or hinted that everyone was coming back”. You’d agree that you were incorrect, right?

 

[longtimefan]

Yeah I disagree. The head coach of the team openly spoke about Jimmy getting another year like a month ago

Update: Jim Boeheim says Jimmy Boeheim will petition NCAA to return to Syracuse for 5th season

Boeheim addressed a caller's question regarding Jimmy Boeheim's eligibility status on his radio show on Thursday.

www.syracuse.com

Jimmy added his name to a petition signed by a bunch of ex-Ivy Leaguers. He stated recently that he did so to support the others; and that even if an extra year were granted he might not take it.

 

[orangecuse]

What does any of that have to do with a willingness to bring kids on?

My main point is, for argument sake, that even if he's 'willing' to brings kids on, in the broader scope it doesn't matter due to the larger aforementioned drawbacks/obstacles he currently presents.

 

[TeamGlasses]

Simple answer is no. No Fab Melo, no Rakeem Christmas no MCW...the list goes on - but the players are worse so there are worse results.

 

[Consigliere]

Based on what we've seen this year, and his words last night on the radio, I'm afraid the answer is No.

I'm not sure if it comes down to the "willing" or the "able" - probably a combo of the two - but it's become clear that he can't/won't assemble the type of roster required to be relevant (compete to be in top of ACC, a non-bubble seed in NCAAT).

Obviously I'll wait to see what the roster for next year is actually comprised of before fully judging - but if it's the incoming freshmen (plus Mintz perhaps) minus the Boeheim bros and Swider, as JB indicated last night, that's roster malpractice - just as this season was/is roster malpractice.

It's sad and tiresome.

Able is a legitimate debate. Willing is just stupid.

 

[orangecuse]

IMO the zone thing is completely overplayed here. Our zone moves so much it's like switching off all the time anyway. College defense and NBA defense are two different entities.

Well, that may be 'technically' true/accurate. However, it's not the clear perception that is out there with these young kids, and what/who's the most influential in their thinking, inner circles, etc.

 

[Bayside44]

Well, that may be 'technically' true/accurate. However, it's not the clear perception that is out there with these young kids, and what/who's the most influential in their thinking, inner circles, etc.

Kids want to play and score, and JB is right that the NBA drafts by scorers (unless you're a Mitchell Robinson type which might not be that useful).

My point is that on the list of things we have a problem with, that one is way down it at best.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Able is a legitimate debate. Willing is just stupid.

I don't know, depends on the definition and what value there is if "willing" = "wanting". There are lots of things I'm willing to do, but not going to sacrifice much for.

Also I wouldn't put much stock in what random posters write on the recruiting forum. I think with every recruit there will be at least one post about how underrated this gem is and is a great get. That doesn't make it so.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Able is a legitimate debate. Willing is just stupid.

If we pass on the portal then willing isn’t a stupid argument. It means he’s ok settling with what we already have.